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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr. 1, 2011
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    592

    Default Concussion Reduction Technology

    I am an avid football fan and read an article in ESPN about this new material that some players are using in their helmets to reduce the chances of suffering a concussion:
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/85...it-concussions

    Obviously this article is very anecdotal, but I thought it was interesting as I'd never heard of this material before. I wonder if this could make waves in the equestrian world? It'd be nice to see some research from a company such as GPA or Charles Owen using this material. Or has this already been researched and I've just never heard of it before? Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb. 27, 2012
    Posts
    65

    Default

    From what it looks like, i bet you could add it to your current helmet. dont take my word for it though.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2005
    Location
    Columbus, OH
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    Default

    Sadly, it's probably just one more case of marketing trumping scientific evidence. The whole shebang is remarkably similar to the air vest debate in eventing.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...d-concussions/

    But even as a total layperson with only a basic understanding of concussion and physics, this product's marketing lines seem questionable. Concussive forces happen when your brain hits the side of your skull. How could exterior padding do anything to minimize that internal impact? You'd need to have Kevlar in your skull cavity between your brain and your skull.

    Whether the Kevlar would offer more protection to the outside of your head, I can't say. If we're lucky, the resident experts like RAyers will chime in.
    ________________________
    Resident COTH saddle nerd. (CYA: Not a pro, just a long-time enthusiast!)
    http://twitter.com/jenlmichaels



  4. #4
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    May. 8, 2007
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    down south
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    581

    Default

    Well, there is plenty of evidence that shock absorbing materials outside your head can reduce the forces that cause brain injury - that's what all the padding in your helmet is for.

    I must say that I haven't heard of this one yet. Could be a good thing, but I wouldn't go using it yet. Adding weight to your head significantly adds to the forces your brain sees in a fall, plus adding things to a helmet that isn't designed to accommodate them can interfere with their normal function. One of my partners is a consulting neurosurgeon for the NFL though so I will have to see what he has heard about this particular product as I have to plead ignorance.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 15, 2003
    Location
    Northeast MA
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    Default

    Hey guys, I've hesitated posting anything about this, but since Oct.1, I've been very thankful for the research the NFL is doing on brain injury.

    Oct.1, I took one of my horses for a walk on our property. I remember walking about 75 feet, and then nothing for 30 hours. Apparently I was found on the ground, non-responsive with a dislocated and broken hip. My Charles Owen hard hat has a huge dent on one side, and when I got home from the hospital, I called the company to thank them for saving my life. BUT, I'm also thankful that the NFL and many researchers have brought attention to brain injury. I know that not so many years ago, my post-concussion symptoms would have been brushed off or ignored. Instead, the medical team is actually taking them more seriously than my hip, although they're being pretty careful about that, too.

    So, whatever the marketing, I'm thrilled more research is being done. Any additional information is good, IMHO.
    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.



  6. #6
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    Apr. 14, 2006
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    Saco, Maine
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    4,715

    Default

    FA, I remember thinking for one of my "big" concussions that "were it not for my 6 broken ribs, I would surely be getting back in the tack." My whole life I have been one of the ones who always gets right back on but that particular day, my ribs hurt so much I physically couldn't do it. Therefore saving myself a probable further head injury.......Glad you are well enough to be posting today. Now go have a nap.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 15, 2003
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    Northeast MA
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    Default

    Pol, you've always been one of my heroes for your indomitability. Good to know that with increased wisdom (and maybe a few broken ribs) you will sit down and take the time to heal. As a result, you're even higher in my estimation.

    Off to nap.
    They don't call me frugal for nothing.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Boston Area
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    8,260

    Default

    Interesting product.

    Of course, it adds bulk so it would likely be difficult to add to a helmet that already fits.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2008
    Location
    western NY
    Posts
    233

    Default Scientific evidence for CRT

    I've had too many concussions myself so had looked into this technology a while back. Why I didn't order the exo pads at the time I don't know but after reading more about it, I will order them and add them to my helmet.

    Here are two links to experimental evidence as to the effectiveness of the CRT or EXO pads. Unfortunately, they weren't tested in riding helmets.

    http://www.multivu.com/mnr/58535-une...ion-by-unequal

    http://www.exoarmor.com/pads

    Mary in Western NY
    http://www.bpequine.com



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 25, 2003
    Location
    Boston Area
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    8,260

    Default

    Interesting, the press release includes the answer to one of my questions:

    Unequal honors any helmet warranty to its full extent when CRT is in place.
    I wondered whether using it would void your helmet's warranty.
    Equine Ink - My soapbox for equestrian writings & reviews.
    EquestrianHow2 - Operating instructions for your horse.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 5, 2010
    Location
    VA--> Washington (state)
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    Default

    one of the main probs with current helmet performance is that oblique blows to the helmet don't fare well and not many riders who fall put their helmet in a perfect 90 degree angle to the ground. perhaps this is where extra padding could come in, but then, fitting a helmet with unequal padding doesn't seem like it would work very well either.

    i applaud the current, past, and deceased players who are championing TBI (traumatic brain injury) research. still, for all those hard ass riders who fall off and have been told from day 1 of riding to "get back on" THAT's where TBIs occur that go unnoticed unless a trained medical professional is there, does an eval--- i can't tell you how many riders (including myself) have gotten back on with a TBI and ridden because they're "fine."

    don't even get me started on TBIs without helmets! i've treated those pts, been that patient and do patient counseling about helmets all the time. we still have a looooonnnnngggg way to go tho friends. how many trainers know the signs/symptoms of a TBI? how many riders know what to do if they see someone hit their head? how many people wear their helmets the minute they enter the barn in case something happens on the ground? we don't do brain transplants yet- you have ONE brain, ONE CNS, that's it!
    And the wise, Jack Daniels drinking, slow-truck-driving, veteran TB handler who took "no shit from no hoss Miss L, y'hear," said: "She aint wrapped too tight."



  12. #12
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    Apr. 14, 2006
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    Saco, Maine
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    Default

    "....how many people wear their helmets the minute they enter the barn in case something happens on the ground?..." LaChasse, that is how the big head whack/ribs breaking episode, of which I spoke above^^ , occurred. I ONLY had my helmet on bc it was a cold December day. I had just finished my ride, was untacking and simply hadn't gotten around to taking off my helmet. If I HAD taken it off already, I am quite sure I would not be sitting here typing. ;-/
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #13
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    Jan. 5, 2010
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    VA--> Washington (state)
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    Default

    @ riverbend- yep. I hear you. Thank god you were cold I guess It's amazing what our lovely beasts do & that we keep coming back....albeit hopefully wiser, with a new helmet.

    Ive said this before but One of my TBIs happened when I wasn't wearing a helmet (I was 19 and dumb). at 25, started wearing a unilateral hearing aid and have to use an electronic stethoscope b/c Ive lost 60%+ hearing in that ear (after surgery too) b/c of my crash. Now, when I have a rider who confesses they don't wear a helmet, or a kid who skateboards/bike/dirtbike/4-wheeler sans helmet, I pop out my hearing aid and say, THIS is what happens and I'm lucky. You could be drooling & in diapers right now. (totally pull the b-card, I know).

    *until u truly get hurt, u have no idea. Happy u are ok & btw, rib fracture are rotten.
    And the wise, Jack Daniels drinking, slow-truck-driving, veteran TB handler who took "no shit from no hoss Miss L, y'hear," said: "She aint wrapped too tight."



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2007
    Location
    Marietta
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    391

    Default

    fwiw, one of my professors (20+ year neurosurgeon in Chicago and Atlanta) noted that a lot of concussions seem to be worse with the new helmet technology. Due to Diffuse Axonal Injury, instead of the injury being localized to a small area it's spread out to a larger area which can sometimes be worse. Just to say that even though we think the technology is better, it's not always the case. Like the air vests, for instance. Solving one problem can create another. Football will never be concussion-proof, just like riding horses won't. Not sure what the answer is though.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan. 5, 2010
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    VA--> Washington (state)
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    Default

    Hmmm... Thats interesting. Did s/he publish any research? The theory seems legit.
    And the wise, Jack Daniels drinking, slow-truck-driving, veteran TB handler who took "no shit from no hoss Miss L, y'hear," said: "She aint wrapped too tight."



  16. #16
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    Apr. 14, 2006
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    Saco, Maine
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AUeventer View Post
    fwiw, one of my professors (20+ year neurosurgeon in Chicago and Atlanta) noted that a lot of concussions seem to be worse with the new helmet technology. Due to Diffuse Axonal Injury, instead of the injury being localized to a small area it's spread out to a larger area which can sometimes be worse. Just to say that even though we think the technology is better, it's not always the case. Like the air vests, for instance. Solving one problem can create another. Football will never be concussion-proof, just like riding horses won't. Not sure what the answer is though.
    I think I still prefer to land on my head with it inside a helmet than without. Good grief, if we can't trust our helmets, who CAN we trust?!!
    Last edited by RiverBendPol; Oct. 19, 2012 at 03:38 PM.
    Proud and achy member of the Eventing Grannies clique.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug. 10, 1999
    Location
    Ireland & sometimes the US ;)
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    11,073

    Default

    By the way, the new Chas Owen 4* (which I haven't yet seen) is the only hat (so far) that is approved by all three standards - ASTM, BSI, and SNELL - the latter of which measures the "oblique blows to the helmet don't fare well" (sic) that has La Chasse concerned. Certainly as technology changes, more hats will earn all three approvals.
    co-author of 101 Jumping Exercises & The Rider's Fitness Program; Soon to come: Dead Ringer - a tale of equine mystery and intrique! Former Moderator!



  18. #18
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    Jan. 5, 2010
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    VA--> Washington (state)
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    Default

    That's gtk. I emailed a researcher for some helmet company in Europe maybe about a year ago (not CO) who was working on the oblique issue too. Of course I can't remember who or what the name was, but it was a company I hadn't heard of before- Danish maybe? My poor brain-
    And the wise, Jack Daniels drinking, slow-truck-driving, veteran TB handler who took "no shit from no hoss Miss L, y'hear," said: "She aint wrapped too tight."



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2008
    Location
    western NY
    Posts
    233

    Default Gatehouse HS1 Jockey Skull

    Quote Originally Posted by La Chasse View Post
    That's gtk. I emailed a researcher for some helmet company in Europe maybe about a year ago (not CO) who was working on the oblique issue too. Of course I can't remember who or what the name was, but it was a company I hadn't heard of before- Danish maybe? My poor brain-
    You might be thinking of this helmet, HS1

    "The best selling riding helmet in the world that passes both Snell E2001 and the BSI kitemark. Snell E2001 is the highest manufactured equestrian helmet standard in the world and includes a unique test that simulates a rider falling into a fence rail, or having a secondary hit from a horse's hoof"

    I've said this before, and I'll say it again - I don't see why the USEA/USEF thinks that the American safety standard is better than the European standard of testing for helmets. I go with what fits and covers my head the best and if it's not ASTM/SEI but rather PAS and EN approved I don't care.

    Mary in Western NY
    http://www.bpequine.com



  20. #20
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    Oct. 2, 2012
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    In the wilds of Northern Ontario, Canada
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    357

    Default

    I will honestly admit that I haven't read the scientific evidence presented above, HOWEVER, as a parent of a competitive hockey player (I'm Canadian after all, eh?) the science here indicates that a well fitted mouthpiece is just as important in brain injury prevention as a good helmet. Just putting it out there. My son played competitive hockey from age 7 to 16 and wore a fitted mouthpiece 100% of the time. Helmet was replaced after every severe helmet/ice impact.

    As a 50 year old re-rider doing mostly trial riding, what piece of safety equipment am I looking at? Impact vest 100% - mouthpiece 0%. If my child was taking up eventing - as an educated "hockey Mom" - kid would be at the dentist for a heat moulded mouthpiece and would never jump without it.


    2 members found this post helpful.

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