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  1. #1
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    Default If a horse and rider fall on course...

    in a place not associated with a fence, circling during a long gallop, for instance, can they continue on?

    Horse's shoulder and rump make contact with the ground.



  2. #2
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    Shoulder and or rump down, no. EV141, "First fall of horse - Mandatory Retirement."



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post
    Shoulder and or rump down, no. EV141, "First fall of horse - Mandatory Retirement."
    BUT
    EV142 Cross -Country —Definitions of Faults (Drawings , Appendix 7).
    1. GENERAL. Faults (refusals, run-outs, circles and falls) will be penalized unless in the opinion of
    the responsible judge, they are clearly not connected with the negotiation or attempted negotiation
    of a numbered obstacle or element for the relevant competition in progress. The negotiation
    or attempted negotiation of an obstacle commences with the presentation of the horse to the
    obstacle.
    So a cross country fall (horse or rider) clearly not connected with the negotiation ...
    of a numbered obstacle is not penalized undeer USEF rules (FEI rules are different.)
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  4. #4
    eponacowgirl is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Reed, that's what we all said, too, but we were told the rider could go on. Thanks Janet, for the clarification.

    Wisely, the rider chose not to, but we all had a moment of "really?" as the rider took off deployed air vest and I walked the horse with loosened girth and run up stirrups.

    Also, this seems awfully silly, but what do I know, anyway?



  5. #5
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    A very good topic, Epona, thanks for posting it. I've got some thoughts -- general, not specific to your situation....

    Actually I would consider that a judges' call, since it's under XC faults -- and a fall of rider is not a "fault', it is an eliminating consequence; (we cannot give penalties any more for falls)... The fall referred to in the rule I would consider to be the fall of the rider;I think that the fall of the horse goes into a different category, and often, I think we do see that military mentality, the show must go on at all costs, sort of leftover vestiges in the rulebook. This might be one of those rules.

    For instance (not referring to the OP's instance):

    When a rider pulls a horse off its feet and it falls -- such an action could be dangerous riding actionable, but would it really allow the rider to get the horse up and go back on? Is that the sport I signed on for?

    Personally I feel that anytime a horse goes off its feet especially at a competition, it should be very very seriously taken. I am old fashioned that way and came from the racetrack, where a horse fall immediately invoked veterinary inquiry and complete investigation. No horse should ever go down in public, if so, it is assumed injured or ill and should be immediately seen to. That's the racetrack mindset and I adere to it. In addition, perhaps some do not remember, but my friend and great eventing supporter Cindy Burge died in just such a scenario when circling between fences and had a fall.

    I've been consistent on this stance for a long time....if there is one mindset in eventing I'd like to see changed, from top to bottom, it's that when a horse falls it means your day is over immediately and a vet MUST examine your horse for the horse's welfare. The safety and humane treatment of animals require we provide for them as they do our bidding in sport.
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
    www.eventhorse.wordpress.com



  6. #6
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    Retread, while your stance is definitely "the higher ground", the fact of the matter is a rule eliminating either the horse or rider for a fall anywhere on course would be incredibly hard to regulate. In many cases, it would require organizers to have additional volunteers out on the courses to patrol areas not readily visible by fence judges or other officials.

    In instances such as this when enacting a rule would create an uneven playing field, it is really up to the riders to take responsibility for the health and well being of their horses and themselves. We shouldn't have to rely on a rule to force riders to do what's right for their horses.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    If the Number 2 pencil is so popular, why is it still number 2?



  7. #7
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    Retread,
    Please would you tell us more about Cindy Burge? I googled her name to understand more about her fall. She sounded like a wonderful, caring person. In another thread, there was a brief mention of the dangers of riding in grain fields and slipping on the footing. How do the farmers there farm those fields? Did her fall happen after harvest?
    Intermediate Riding Skills



  8. #8
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    We also knew Cindy quite well. I still have a poster of her jumping the broken bridge at Freeman Farm proudly posted on our barn " Hall of Fame " wall.

    I also saw her fall. The field was not yet harvested. The track for the XC course was cut through the grain field. The horse was having an I'm not listening moment and it looked like Cindy felt that they were traveling at too fast a pace to jump, so it appeared that in an effort to slow him down, Cindy circled out into the uncut grain where the horse tripped in a track made by the wheel line. These tracks are quite deep and wide.

    It was a sad day for all and a scene that is forever etched in my mind.



  9. #9
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    Wouldn't this situation come under the inflatable vest provision? (yeah, right. Like I even know the rules about mandatory vests...).

    Once a rider becomes separated from her horse and the vest inflates, can the rider, under the current rules, continue on with an inflated vest? I believe she cannot take it off and continue the course unvested, as it were, so -- if she were to fall, the vest inflates and ---- what is the rule regarding this?
    "I used to have money, now I have horses."



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Helpus View Post
    Wouldn't this situation come under the inflatable vest provision? (yeah, right. Like I even know the rules about mandatory vests...).

    Once a rider becomes separated from her horse and the vest inflates, can the rider, under the current rules, continue on with an inflated vest? I believe she cannot take it off and continue the course unvested, as it were, so -- if she were to fall, the vest inflates and ---- what is the rule regarding this?
    I assume you are talking about a fall unrelated to a jump.

    Yes, she can continue with the inflated vest.

    Yes, she can remove the inflated vest, and continue with the regular vest (which is required with or without an inflatable).
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



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