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  1. #101
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    I guess the Nobel Prize that was given to the EU is for creating the gravest crisis in human history and starving people, or creating the conditions to light the flames of riots for desperate people (as has been happening in Greece), might be a little more of the agenda of this "rumor" that may not be a rumor. Or it may. Chaos seems to be the order of the day, and the Obama administration and their financial backers are the masters of it, that and deceit.
    "I have brought on the hatred of Wall Street and I relish it".
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt



  2. #102
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    Although the abruptness of this development is surprising, the fact that the EU is apparently finally taking action on the issue of tainted horse meat is not. When I began seriously researching the issue of horse slaughter, I was shocked to find that there was virtually no enforcement of regulations designed to ensure that horse meat is safe for human consumption.

    As I learned more, I also realized that the market for US horses to go to slaughter isn't large enough to make even a modest impact on the horse overpopulation problem. We send just over 1% of US horses to slaughter (and that's all the plants will accept) and the market was not showing signs of growing even before this latest development. It's not enough to make a difference.

    Unfortunately, the prospect of slaughter still provides uninformed individuals with the illusion that slaughter is a viable option for a horse that they don't want, and that diverts attention away from the real problem which is irresponsible breeding.

    Finally, and most importantly for the horses that we value so highly, horse slaughter is inhumane and cannot be made humane due to the speed at which the slaughter process has to move for the plant to make money. As we all know, horses are hyper-sensitive flight animals and they are not suited for this process at all. As a result, they suffer terribly as we have all seen in undercover footage.



  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacardi1 View Post
    They may have been Brabants now that I think of it. Certainly looked the part.

    But the point being that in certain areas over there, horse meat isn't considered much different than beef. Different culture.
    Yep totally different. And interestingly, my friend mentioned the other day that the neighbor with the pony will not slaughter the broodmare, because she was laminitic once, and someone gave her bute, and that means forever out of the food chain for humans. That surprised me! She said that their meat horses are not to EVER have any drugs....and I kind of laughed, considering most of the horses from this country have most certainly had some kind of drug at some point (that the EU's would not approve of).



  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackieB12003 View Post
    Finally, and most importantly for the horses that we value so highly, horse slaughter is inhumane and cannot be made humane due to the speed at which the slaughter process has to move for the plant to make money. As we all know, horses are hyper-sensitive flight animals and they are not suited for this process at all. As a result, they suffer terribly as we have all seen in undercover footage.
    Gotta take a little issue here.

    I used to buy the orphan foals from mares who went to slaughter (one foal turned out to be a whalloping good jumper for my daughter). I watched them in the pens leading up to the kill stall and not once did I see horses in an excited state. It was horse goes in, door comes down, door goes up, horse goes in, door goes down and on and on. Of course, they weren't stabbing them either. ETA: I remember quite a few stud horses and also, most horses were standing around waiting 'their turn' and had a hind leg cocked, looked like they were snoozing in a pasture.

    Then, once, after I had paid for some orphans, I walked through the wrong door into the kill chamber and saw the bodies hanging and the kill stall on the other end. Still no 'theatrics' (a bad word to use but can't think of better at the moment) from the live horses in the stall or on the outside.

    If a horse was in an excited state, it was out in the huge corrals where the *(#&%*$ hired help would run the horses around instead of being quiet and calm. One little orphan got ran over by a bunch of big horses and I couldn't get to him/her. The guy said it was good for the colt, teach him a lesson not to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. ????

    This was decades ago, but, still, even back then, the horses were pretty calm, calmer than you see horses at a horse show.
    Last edited by goneriding24; Oct. 14, 2012 at 01:43 AM. Reason: .
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!



  5. #105
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  6. #106
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    Feb. 16, 2010
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    Fairfax, the information you posted from Jerry Finch was an update EWA sent to our members. He was only posting the information to his readers. Nobody is fundraising because we don’t know what we are dealing with yet. The opportunists have already started asking for donations and we don’t want anyone getting scammed. We told people what Jerry was going to do and suggest that as a way to vet out the legitimate orgs. Key words - going to do.

    We reached out to Jerry to help because he is an expert at large rescues/seizures. HSUS and ASPCA have the resources and funds to help out and that’s why we reached out to them. They have a presence in almost every state. Jerry coordinated efforts at 3 Strikes and called HSUS and they were immediately on the ground helping. Who do you recommend we ask to help out? The pro slaughter that are still saying all of this is a hoax and trying to discredit anyone that is trying to help?

    There is nothing in that email asking for money. Nothing.



  7. #107
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    Feb. 16, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    This is NONSENSE....you are trying to back track it .... All of the press released stated THE CANADIAN BORDER WAS CLOSED TO SLAUGHTER AND LIKEWISE WITH MEXICO.....That has proven to be a LIE.

    You can try and rewrite it as a generalization but that is what they said over and over and over. When TWO of us contacted the borders and posted that only then..one day later..did they now say...oh gosh..maybe the slaughter plants made that decision and they had been told of a ban...but then why is it no one mentioned the Quebec slaughter plant and claim they had spoken to a rep...you wanna know why...BECAUSE THEY DO NOT SPEAK ENGLISH...TRY FRENCH...the receptionist has such broken English I defy anyone to get any information from her. All she could do is take my number and let me know someone will call...and that was in FRENCH.

    They tried to say yesterday that the plant was in Ontario...when that was disputed..with a map..they no longer QUOTE THAT plant...

    This whole situation smells...and smells and smells....Habitat is crying for donations...and conveniently this occurs...they notify HSUS who know NOTHING ABOUT IT but are on stand by...I don't even think Angela Freda could buy that one with a straight face
    Fairfax, do you understand the confusion when this broke? The KBs were telling us the borders were closed – Brian Moore being one of the first. The information in the press release was the information we had at that time. Did you not see the word Confusion in the title? The fact is that the EU is no longer accepting shipments from Canada. It’s impossible to get information out of Mexico but since this is coming from the EU, we suspect their shipments aren’t being accepted, either. I finally got a hold of POE and they told me the borders weren’t closed. As we researched further, we determined it was indeed the plants, not the borders. And what difference does it make? The news is that the EU doesn’t want our horses.

    And oh, the drama. Habitat is crying for donations! Jerry hasn’t asked for one penny. Perhaps you should calm down and read slower.



  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by vickitobin View Post
    Fairfax, the information you posted from Jerry Finch was an update EWA sent to our members. He was only posting the information to his readers. Nobody is fundraising because we don’t know what we are dealing with yet. The opportunists have already started asking for donations and we don’t want anyone getting scammed. We told people what Jerry was going to do and suggest that as a way to vet out the legitimate orgs. Key words - going to do.

    We reached out to Jerry to help because he is an expert at large rescues/seizures. HSUS and ASPCA have the resources and funds to help out and that’s why we reached out to them. They have a presence in almost every state. Jerry coordinated efforts at 3 Strikes and called HSUS and they were immediately on the ground helping. Who do you recommend we ask to help out? The pro slaughter that are still saying all of this is a hoax and trying to discredit anyone that is trying to help?

    There is nothing in that email asking for money. Nothing.
    Are you talking about this Habitat for Horses and this Jerry Finch?

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=371091

    Sounds like they only have 3 days worth of feed for their own rescue and are desperate.
    Yes, they are asking for money, "URGENT!"

    Must be a different group.

    As for the HSUS, we already know how they "come to help" and how they "use their resources" to do so.

    Have you forgotten their so helpful ways in the last two hurricanes?
    According to those there, the HSUS was INTERFERING with real help and the real helpers doing the work.
    Really, some kinds of "help" are very questionable.



  9. #109
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    I am just dumbstruck that the EU has made their decision without the knowledge and superior intellectual contributions of LEO/FAIRFAX. What gall.
    from sunridge1 Go get 'em Roy! Stupid clown shoe nailing, acid pouring bast@rds.



  10. #110
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    Apr. 28, 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Are you talking about this Habitat for Horses and this Jerry Finch?

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=371091

    Sounds like they only have 3 days worth of feed for their own rescue and are desperate.
    Yes, they are asking for money, "URGENT!"

    Must be a different group.

    As for the HSUS, we already know how they "come to help" and how they "use their resources" to do so.

    Have you forgotten their so helpful ways in the last two hurricanes?
    According to those there, the HSUS was INTERFERING with real help and the real helpers doing the work.
    Really, some kinds of "help" are very questionable.
    Bluey, can you ever use facts to support your anti-animal welfare agenda?

    The legitimate animal welfare folks who worked with HSUS after Katrina give rave (and accurate) reviews of their help there. The only criticisms are unsubstantiated grumblings from dog breeders and puppy millers who, for obvious reasons cannot be remotely objective on the topic of HSUS.

    And no, Jerry is not asking for money to deal with this issue, as Vicki stated. The link you posted refers to their rescue.
    "There's something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man" ~ Sir Winston Churchill



  11. #111
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    Aug. 5, 2009
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    Vickitobin:

    Glad that you showed up with the updates--at least I know that you have your ear onto what is going on in this mess. Please keep us updated with what you do know.

    As far as Habitat and HSUS, one can think whatever they want about them, and I know that both have made poor decisions/actions in the past. However, the Three Strikes seizure will stay in my memory forever, especially the account of Jerry flying over the property, seeing the grazed down to nothing terrain in contrast to the normal vegetation filled fields of the neighbors and the piles--literal piles--of carcasses of starved horses, hundreds of them. For that action alone they deserve my respect.



  12. #112
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    Jun. 4, 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackieB12003 View Post
    As I learned more, I also realized that the market for US horses to go to slaughter isn't large enough to make even a modest impact on the horse overpopulation problem. We send just over 1% of US horses to slaughter (and that's all the plants will accept) and the market was not showing signs of growing even before this latest development. It's not enough to make a difference.
    Someone once figured out on here that the numbers slaughtered per year, 120,000 approximately, amount to about 2 horses per US county that will need to be dealt with in a different manner. That is hardly overwhelming when you look at it that way.

    What I do suspect is that way more slaughter bound horses come out of certain areas or from certain groups...large "breeders" who overproduce and regularly dump youngstock at sales, race horses, Amish, etc...will be the ones who really feel the bite of this change. I kind of doubt Joe Average American horseowner is really going to be in deep trouble with this change. I know of very few people who use sales as a disposal method for their horses and those who did were all larger breeders with foal crops of 20-100 a year...and some of these folks are still producing that many which borders on insanity in this market. I really won't mind seeing these people forced to slow down production finally.



  13. #113
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    Feb. 16, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Are you talking about this Habitat for Horses and this Jerry Finch?

    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=371091

    Sounds like they only have 3 days worth of feed for their own rescue and are desperate.
    Yes, they are asking for money, "URGENT!"

    Must be a different group.

    As for the HSUS, we already know how they "come to help" and how they "use their resources" to do so.

    Have you forgotten their so helpful ways in the last two hurricanes?
    According to those there, the HSUS was INTERFERING with real help and the real helpers doing the work.
    Really, some kinds of "help" are very questionable.
    Bluey, I thought this thread was about the recent shutdown by the EU of North American horse meat? Fairfax posted my email and I was addressing her snide comment saying let the fundraising begin. Not only did the email not ask for donations, our organization specifically stated we will not accept donations for this effort. I stand by my comment that Jerry hasn’t asked for a penny.

    What you are saying about HSUS is also irrelevant. I mentioned 3 Strikes. They hit the ground immediately when Jerry called them and didn’t leave until the end. Whether you like them or not, they were a tremendous help.



  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by vickitobin View Post
    Bluey, I thought this thread was about the recent shutdown by the EU of North American horse meat? Fairfax posted my email and I was addressing her snide comment saying let the fundraising begin. Not only did the email not ask for donations, our organization specifically stated we will not accept donations for this effort. I stand by my comment that Jerry hasn’t asked for a penny.

    What you are saying about HSUS is also irrelevant. I mentioned 3 Strikes. They hit the ground immediately when Jerry called them and didn’t leave until the end. Whether you like them or not, they were a tremendous help.
    Whether you like them or not, the HSUS has a record of mismanaging funds and supplies in rescues.
    There is enough out there to show that, don't need to take my word.
    I know from the people that were at the site, in the hurricane rescue efforts.
    The HSUS used those for their donation drives and raked in so much more money in a short time ... for their general coffers, already overflowing and used to lobby against animal ownership.
    Fine, that is what they do, more power to them.

    Nevertheless, if they want to "help" here and some of you want to welcome them, why not.
    Maybe they have learned to keep a bit tighter ship from the previous controversies about their less than stellar help efforts.

    As for some bringing up the HSUS and then wanting anyone else to stay quiet about them, I don't think this is that kind of forum, where you can ban anyone that has inconvenient facts and questions you may not like.
    Thankfully, COTH is not a rescue or animal rights extremist groups only web site.
    There are some internet places that still operate under free speech, as long as it abides by the rules already posted.



  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkInTheWoods View Post
    I am just dumbstruck that the EU has made their decision without the knowledge and superior intellectual contributions of LEO/FAIRFAX. What gall.
    And apparently so is Leo/Fairfax.



  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Thankfully, COTH is not a rescue or animal rights extremist groups only web site.
    I don't think anyone is trying to take away your right to free speech; however, you have to remember that there are many of us on COTH that wouldn't agree with your thoughts and frankly exaggerated comments and you label us animal rights extremists. I'd say that most people reading this thread want some actual facts on what is happening, not hysterical responses from either side of the pro/con group.

    Sigh...one day I wish we could have a civil discussion about slaughter/rescue/carriages/you name it...
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    ~Coth's Resident Deatheater~



  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Why is the pro slaughter side saying that all of those horses in the pipeline and on feedlots are going to be starved or dumped? Any pro slaughter posters want to answer that? The horses have owners (KB/Dealers/SH). It's illegal to neglect/dump horses.

    Aren't these the same "businessmen" that we have routinely been assured by the pro slaughter side, that are horsemen that have the horse's welfare in mind? And we are repeatedly told that they are engaged in a legal business, and abide by the law? And that incidents of abuse and neglect are so rare or set up by RARAs, to be inconsequential?

    So pro slaughter people...why are you now saying all of these horses on feedlots/owned by killer buyers/dealers in jeopardy?
    Yes. These individuals bought these horses for a commercial purpose. Now they have goods they can't sell for the use they intended to sell them. I for one won't send a dime to help these dealers out of the mess they made for themselves. Let them pry open their wallets to feed and re-sell all these horses they now own.
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns




  18. #118
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    Wouldn't it be funny come tomorrow AM to find out it was just a rouse started by some extremist group and 6 pages of arguing later the whole world took the bait and ran with it.

    Darkstar the reason there is little civility involved when topics like Horse slaughter for consumption , carriages horses , race horses , animal rights groups etc . Is because 99% of their following is based on an emotional response. Once emotion enters the stage , logic and reason exit quickly.

    The whole world is just one big nosy neighbor these days and everyone believes they have the right to have an opinion and rights to everyone else s business.

    Personally I have no issue with horse meat for consumption. On the same hand I truly understand that those that do eat horse very much would like to eat a product that is safe for consumption. That mud hole is one this country will have to work out if it wishes to remain an exporter of horse meat if its targeted consumer has finally put their foot down.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkstar View Post
    I don't think anyone is trying to take away your right to free speech; however, you have to remember that there are many of us on COTH that wouldn't agree with your thoughts and frankly exaggerated comments and you label us animal rights extremists. I'd say that most people reading this thread want some actual facts on what is happening, not hysterical responses from either side of the pro/con group.

    Sigh...one day I wish we could have a civil discussion about slaughter/rescue/carriages/you name it...
    Your take on these discussions would be more believable as presented if you had not been picking on me only.

    Yes, there is much to this topic and no, we are not where only one side's story is permitted, thankfully.

    We don't know if there is really a problem here and if so, what that is and what will come of this.

    In reality, we should maybe be more concerned about the January 2013 fiscal cliff and how that will affect all, including the horse industry.
    I don't think we will be doing business as usual any more after that.



  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by vickitobin View Post
    Not only did the email not ask for donations, our organization specifically stated we will not accept donations for this effort. I stand by my comment that Jerry hasn’t asked for a penny.
    Vicky, I was the one posting the e-mail and making that statement.
    Yes, EWA stated that they are not accepting any donations regarding this efffort.

    "Jerry will set-up a separate fund that will go through his accountant. Only the accountant will release funds to pay for any horses, supplies, etc."

    The above implies there will be fundraising.

    In the meantime others are planning the same, whether legitimately or not needs to be determined by those who are being asked to support the effort.

    As an example:

    https://www.wepay.com/donations/1824...28854223929240

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



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