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  1. #301
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    Jun. 27, 2005
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    KY
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    Default

    Shipshi didn't accept loose horses on Friday - check.

    Baker called his regulars not to come on Friday - check

    WA auction was cancelled - check

    KB's claiming to having been turned around - check

    Very few horses at NH last night - check

    Apparently not a hoax.

    The ones who started this commotion are those involved in the horse slaughter business.

    Leo, if you are ticked off at loosing sleep over this, why don't you call Sue Wallis, and you can console each other.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  2. #302
    Join Date
    Apr. 17, 2012
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    1,961

    Default

    If the ban is not in full force & effect now, it will be later. I remembered that the original date in The Chronicle WAS July of 2013.

    As ever, the slaughter/anti-slaughter debate is that between two different fundamental ways of looking at horses:

    (1) As fully commodified livestock with a dollar value only;

    (2) Or as sentient companion animals worthy of humane treatment for a lifetime as the preferred goal.

    Believing in the latter does not make one a RARA, any more than belief in the former makes one a Republican.

    Both standpoints can field arguments with validity.

    I think what BOTH sides can agree on is that the WAY horse slaughter is currently conducted is a humane atrocity unworthy of a civilized people, and that at 1% to 2% its continued existence or non-existence is unlikely to be a force in the future equine industry in any very meaningful way. The simple fact is that 98% of horses will never be in the slaughter pipeline.

    As for all of you who are so into your "rights" to own horses--where you come from, do not "rights" also mean "responsibilities?"

    Horses have not been working animals for industry, transportation or the military in 100 years. Nowhere in North American have they historically been raised specifically for food. Indeed, there is NO reason to own them except for pleasure and sport as the "Luxury Pets" they are.

    Now, perhaps because of the Great Recession there are now a large group of people priced out of owning "Luxury Pets." While this is sad for them, it is only one societal adjustment we're going to make as we adapt to a sustainable economic model.

    Personally, I see it as an opportunity; instead of a given township having dozens of scrappy tin-shed-round-bale borderline neglect cases, perhaps a good operator could start a time-share riding club/school where people could ride far more affordably and the horses receive better care--including humane euthaniasia and responsible disposal when their time comes.

    Start thinking for the future, folks! The wheel turns . . .



  3. #303
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    Apr. 3, 2006
    Location
    Spooner, WI
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    2,667

    Default

    Aw...Swamp what a great post.



  4. #304
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    Jun. 19, 2011
    Posts
    3,753

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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Shipshi didn't accept loose horses on Friday - check.

    Baker called his regulars not to come on Friday - check

    WA auction was cancelled - check

    KB's claiming to having been turned around - check

    Very few horses at NH last night - check

    Apparently not a hoax.

    The ones who started this commotion are those involved in the horse slaughter business.


    Leo, if you are ticked off at loosing sleep over this, why don't you call Sue Wallis, and you can console each other.
    False claims that Canada was involved - check
    False claims that EU had finally pulled the plug - check
    False claims that posters had spoken to EU and CFIA - check
    Unconfirmed claim that Brian Moore attempted to bring horses
    into Canada on a day he knew there would be no vet and was alledged to have been turned back - check
    Commotion actually started and fed by RARA groups - check
    Truckers / brokers demanding higher amounts for horses to save them from an uncertain future - check

    Rumours FED by RARA's and kept going for three days - check
    and Canada never even mentioned - check

    and a BIG CHECK...all of the RARA's are now very silent...their lies have again been exposed and rather than admit it....they slither back into the dark..and get ready for the next opportunity

    Sad...all those auctions CLOSED due to RUMOURS



  5. #305
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    Sep. 11, 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    4,491

    Default

    I second that.

    QUOTE=sunridge1;6610616]Aw...Swamp what a great post. [/QUOTE]



  6. #306
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    Jun. 19, 2011
    Posts
    3,753

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
    If the ban is not in full force & effect now, it will be later. I remembered that the original date in The Chronicle WAS July of 2013.

    As ever, the slaughter/anti-slaughter debate is that between two different fundamental ways of looking at horses:

    (1) As fully commodified livestock with a dollar value only;

    (2) Or as sentient companion animals worthy of humane treatment for a lifetime as the preferred goal.

    Believing in the latter does not make one a RARA, any more than belief in the former makes one a Republican.

    Both standpoints can field arguments with validity.

    I think what BOTH sides can agree on is that the WAY horse slaughter is currently conducted is a humane atrocity unworthy of a civilized people, and that at 1% to 2% its continued existence or non-existence is unlikely to be a force in the future equine industry in any very meaningful way. The simple fact is that 98% of horses will never be in the slaughter pipeline.

    As for all of you who are so into your "rights" to own horses--where you come from, do not "rights" also mean "responsibilities?"

    Horses have not been working animals for industry, transportation or the military in 100 years. Nowhere in North American have they historically been raised specifically for food. Indeed, there is NO reason to own them except for pleasure and sport as the "Luxury Pets" they are.

    Now, perhaps because of the Great Recession there are now a large group of people priced out of owning "Luxury Pets." While this is sad for them, it is only one societal adjustment we're going to make as we adapt to a sustainable economic model.

    Personally, I see it as an opportunity; instead of a given township having dozens of scrappy tin-shed-round-bale borderline neglect cases, perhaps a good operator could start a time-share riding club/school where people could ride far more affordably and the horses receive better care--including humane euthaniasia and responsible disposal when their time comes.

    Start thinking for the future, folks! The wheel turns . . .
    Come to Fort MacLeod and see how it is done CORRECTLY. The limited amount of stress...the great condition the horses are in due to wonderful feed and clean water.

    Slaughter is only to be considered as AN OPTION.

    Hopefully the new tests will identify all that needs to be..and also the feedlots will evolve if need be and horses will at least be well fed before their demise.

    I like your suggestions about time share...never heard that idea before and I think it is GREAT.....



  7. #307
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2005
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    7,895

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    False claims that Canada was involved - check
    False claims that EU had finally pulled the plug - check
    False claims that posters had spoken to EU and CFIA - check
    Unconfirmed claim that Brian Moore attempted to bring horses
    into Canada on a day he knew there would be no vet and was alledged to have been turned back - check
    Commotion actually started and fed by RARA groups - check
    Truckers / brokers demanding higher amounts for horses to save them from an uncertain future - check

    Rumours FED by RARA's and kept going for three days - check
    and Canada never even mentioned - check

    and a BIG CHECK...all of the RARA's are now very silent...their lies have again been exposed and rather than admit it....they slither back into the dark..and get ready for the next opportunity

    Sad...all those auctions CLOSED due to RUMOURS
    They didn't close due to rumours... they closed because they got word that the plant was not accepting horses which it isn't/wasn't... until tomorrow.

    Seriously, some of you here take this person seriously?



  8. #308
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    Sep. 11, 2008
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    4,491

    Default

    As I recall it was stated that there was alot of confusion about this.
    In any event so what's your point???
    Don't hold your breath that there will be any groveling.
    I find it rather sad that it's more important that you be right than what was actually going to happen to the horses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    False claims that Canada was involved - check
    False claims that EU had finally pulled the plug - check
    False claims that posters had spoken to EU and CFIA - check
    Unconfirmed claim that Brian Moore attempted to bring horses
    into Canada on a day he knew there would be no vet and was alledged to have been turned back - check
    Commotion actually started and fed by RARA groups - check
    Truckers / brokers demanding higher amounts for horses to save them from an uncertain future - check

    Rumours FED by RARA's and kept going for three days - check
    and Canada never even mentioned - check

    and a BIG CHECK...all of the RARA's are now very silent...their lies have again been exposed and rather than admit it....they slither back into the dark..and get ready for the next opportunity

    Sad...all those auctions CLOSED due to RUMOURS



  9. #309
    Join Date
    Apr. 17, 2012
    Posts
    1,961

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Come to Fort MacLeod and see how it is done CORRECTLY. The limited amount of stress...the great condition the horses are in due to wonderful feed and clean water.

    Slaughter is only to be considered as AN OPTION.

    Hopefully the new tests will identify all that needs to be..and also the feedlots will evolve if need be and horses will at least be well fed before their demise.

    I like your suggestions about time share...never heard that idea before and I think it is GREAT.....
    Visualize regional or county-wide "Horsemanship Centers" with all disciplines represented, great facilities, all kinds of programs and deals and horses from 4-H'ers with Mini's and senior-citizen "therapy" horses all the way up to championship reining, dressage, show-jumping or whatever there's local demand for! Basic memberships could be very inexpensive, within the reach of most high-school kids, especially if they were willing to kick in some work!

    Entrepreneurs are dreamers who DO something!



  10. #310
    Join Date
    Jun. 27, 2005
    Location
    KY
    Posts
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Sad...all those auctions CLOSED due to RUMOURS
    Maybe you need to call LeRoy Baker then. He appears to be the first one to have gotten a call, according to HIS statement.

    Go blame him.

    Phone: 330-852-2832
    or 330-852-2813

    (Phone numbers are public record.)

    Please ask him when he is planning to pay his $ 170,000 plus fine while you have him on the phone.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  11. #311
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2007
    Posts
    16,431

    Default And the moral of the story is....

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    . The regulations will require a "passport" system that certifies animals as drug free and in the care of the seller for at least six months. Those regulations will become enforced sometime between now and July of 2013.
    Take note! This drying up of the EU market for the US horse garbage is going to happen sooner or later. No reason for it to be a surprise next time.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  12. #312
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
    Posts
    24,862

    Default

    Personally, I see it as an opportunity; instead of a given township having dozens of scrappy tin-shed-round-bale borderline neglect cases, perhaps a good operator could start a time-share riding club/school where people could ride far more affordably and the horses receive better care--including humane euthaniasia and responsible disposal when their time comes.
    Instead of an area having many private owners keeping horses on their own properties (thus keeping those properties Ag)...we should swap to a model where all horses are rented/time shared, never owned.

    And this would be due to them receiving "better care" because they'd not have to be "borderline neglected" with unaesthetically pleasing barn materials and bales of hay in shapes and sizes a few people dislike.

    Huh.


    That doesn't sound elitist or creepy.

    At all.

    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  13. #313
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    Dec. 19, 2005
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    Some where in the middle of nowhere.
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    3,746

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    Instead of an area having many private owners keeping horses on their own properties (thus keeping those properties Ag)...we should swap to a model where all horses are rented/time shared, never owned.

    And this would be due to them receiving "better care" because they'd not have to be "borderline neglected" with unaesthetically pleasing barn materials and bales of hay in shapes and sizes a few people dislike.

    Huh.


    That doesn't sound elitist or creepy.

    At all.

    Equine Socialism ..sounds fun said no one ever.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  14. #314
    Join Date
    Apr. 17, 2012
    Posts
    1,961

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    It was floated to brainstorm the situation many here have cited about unwanted, unaffordable horses being "turned out" to fend for themselves or starved on unsuitable properties.

    I'll own the elitism--ref. my term "luxury pets." This society of "freedom and opportunity" does not guarantee equal outcome, for horses or people, alas.

    Time-sharing at a well-run riding club would be one model that would allow people who cannot afford to keep their own horse to ride and enjoy horses on whatever level they wish; and I've seen enough to know that not all "ag" is pastoral by a long shot. Plenty of horses are kept in conditions I'd associate with the concentration camps of WWII, and I don't consider that practicing moral responsibility, regardless of one's income. If you can't do it decently, better not to do it at all.

    Most importantly, that model might also address successfully the No. 1 humane/neglect issue I continually see--that of Ignorance.



  15. #315
    Join Date
    Mar. 23, 2010
    Posts
    702

    Default

    I still want to know what's going to happen in July.

    Are the lifetime veterinary records for 100,000 plus horses per year going to be forged?



  16. #316
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    Jun. 27, 2005
    Location
    KY
    Posts
    4,869

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by newhorsemommy View Post
    I still want to know what's going to happen in July.

    Are the lifetime veterinary records for 100,000 plus horses per year going to be forged?
    I don't understand why the EU even bothers.

    Their EID system is a fail, and they admitted as much in their latest Mexico report.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  17. #317
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    Feb. 6, 2003
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    NorthEast
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    Ah, but what was said was that it's better to time share horses on a pre-approved location/manager with good looking buildings and never using round bales that for people to own horses of their own on their own property in tin sheds and round bales.

    So it's an aesthetic issue. Who chooses what is optimum and what isn't?
    There are a billion shades of grey between the Kentucky Horse Park and being staked out in a mud hole starving to death.
    Most of the in betweens are perfectly fine. Maybe not pretty to the more financially endowed, but more than adequate for the horses.
    And no, even in stuffy elitist CT Ag does not imply pastoral anything. Usually in this state it conjurs up images of cows or crops instead of horses.
    Horses are indeed a luxury, but not an elitist one. The general public thinks horse owners are either elitist wealthy folks or The Marlborough Man. Us horse folk should know better. And CT (or either coast) is a drop in the bucket of horse owners. There's an enormous center to the country and people can own acreage and horses out there for what we need in land and money to have a pet cat. Can they no longer have them if they don't have the Barn Majal?

    Who decides what is "doing it decently?" What's decent? Why does anyone anywhere have the right to decide what is the "acceptable way" for everyone else to own/keep a horse?

    Why do we want to keep newbies from owning horses? Ignorant? Sure. So what do you want? Make horse keeping classes necessary before anyone purchases a horse? They need to take a test and get permission? They don't do that with any other animals...pets or livestock.

    No matter what...there will always be people who dislike or disagree with others' horse keeping practices. Having *any* horse people decide for me or others how and why we can have horses? Abso-freaking-lutely not. Horse woman are insane. They can't agree on anything even at gun point. And they have way too strong opinions and a definitely un-American want to control everyone else around them. I'd rather muck stalls with a toothbrush than go with that model.

    Less "things need to be MY way" and a LOT more "Get off your asses and help enforce the actual welfare laws out there now instead of trying to enforce some ridiculous utopia made up by some moonbat crazy elitist nutjob."

    Just sayin.....


    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
    It was floated to brainstorm the situation many here have cited about unwanted, unaffordable horses being "turned out" to fend for themselves or starved on unsuitable properties.

    I'll own the elitism--ref. my term "luxury pets." This society of "freedom and opportunity" does not guarantee equal outcome, for horses or people, alas.

    Time-sharing at a well-run riding club would be one model that would allow people who cannot afford to keep their own horse to ride and enjoy horses on whatever level they wish; and I've seen enough to know that not all "ag" is pastoral by a long shot. Plenty of horses are kept in conditions I'd associate with the concentration camps of WWII, and I don't consider that practicing moral responsibility, regardless of one's income. If you can't do it decently, better not to do it at all.

    Most importantly, that model might also address successfully the No. 1 humane/neglect issue I continually see--that of Ignorance.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  18. #318
    Join Date
    Jan. 18, 2007
    Location
    Heaven on Earth--Sonoma County, CA
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    1,805

    Default

    You know, I have a normal personal restriction of never posting on threads like this, and the below is exactly the reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post

    As ever, the slaughter/anti-slaughter debate is that between two different fundamental ways of looking at horses:

    (1) As fully commodified livestock with a dollar value only;

    (2) Or as sentient companion animals worthy of humane treatment for a lifetime as the preferred goal.

    Believing in the latter does not make one a RARA, any more than belief in the former makes one a Republican.

    .
    Allow me to speak for the thousands of people who are hoping both sides (to borrow from Dave Barry) will go away and whack each other with their signs and leave the rest of us alone. There are an INFINITE number of other ways than looking at horse ownership. And even these two listing are biased!

    I do not view my horses as commodified livestock valuable only as $$ signs. I also do not view them all as pets that I owe a permanent, lifetime home to. I have a couple of lifers here. They have earned their spot on that list. But I don't have the kind of ego that is certain that I'm the only one that can ever offer an appropriate care and home. Nor do I believe that every horse that crosses my path is entitled to lifer status. They have every right to try for it, but I just don't assume it's automatic. Every horse that crosses my path does deserve the very best care, training, and management I can possibly offer it for the time it is with me. And if I am going to sell or rehome one, I owe them my very best effort to make the very best match. But they aren't my dogs. And I don't want them to be. I've pulled my share out of the kill pipeline, but I pull the ones I think I can help. In other words, not the crippled or the crazy (neurotic and slightly nutty, sure, but not flat out crazy).

    But don't try to tell me that my only two choices are "horses as beef cattle" or "pretty pony petter who think they are my wittle pets". I'd guess most of us fall between those two points.
    Phoenix Farm ~ Breeding-Training-Sales
    Eventing, Dressage, Young Horses
    www.phoenixsporthorses.com
    Check out my new blog: http://califcountrymom.blogspot.com



  19. #319
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2010
    Posts
    90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Fine, but some day you may wake up and see that all those efforts following animal rights extremist agendas would serve horses much, much better if, for those that can see past those agendas, by helping make slaughter the best it can be, not by working to ban it.

    A ban is but one more nail in the coffin of our rights to use our animals, any way we do use them.
    That includes, yes, to use some horses one last time thru slaughter, rather than wantonly killing them and add their toxic carcass to our waste pile in some landfill.
    How are your rights being impacted? You can sell them, donate them, euthanize them, use them for work, service, etc. When slaughter ends, you will have those same rights.

    You are worried about toxic waste in the ground but have no problems with humans eating toxic meat?



  20. #320
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    Dec. 31, 2000
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    14,254

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vickitobin View Post
    How are your rights being impacted? You can sell them, donate them, euthanize them, use them for work, service, etc. When slaughter ends, you will have those same rights.

    You are worried about toxic waste in the ground but have no problems with humans eating toxic meat?
    As if a decomposing carcass, or one that is composted is somehow worse than the environmental damage that slaughterhouses do.

    Bluey- google "Paula Bacon Letter about horse slaughter plant"
    She talks about the environmental damage Dallas Crowne did, the unpaid fines, and how it almost bankrupted the city's bankroll for prosecuting crime.



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