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  1. #61
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    Nov. 15, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldaziens View Post

    All that aside; you are now telling us a cop snuck a horse off your property and texted you after the fact and expected a refund -- or rather expected you to purchase a blanket and refund or credit or whatever. And that the deal was that the horse was boarding with you until they finished their barn; but the horse didn't disappear to client's house / barn- it's going to stay at a 3rd parties place until the end of the month.
    The boarder is a police officer, but he did not use this in ANY way to get the horse. I just am wondering if maybe that is playing into his perception of the scenario? They came while we were at a show. Texted me while at the show, so I was not looking for the horse. He had told me he was taking the horse away for a bit that day, but he didn't come back. The horse is closer to his home and it's easier for him now until his barn is built (horse is about 10 miles closer). So really he, I don't think, meant any harm by it, it's just how it happened and how he went about telling me.

    They have been riding her for over a year. Purchased the horse Sept 1st and came to board until their barn was done. Oddly enough left Oct 7th after paying for all of October, so really I'm not "out" anything except that boarder for November. But do want credit for lessons and a blanket. I really have no issues with the lessons here at my farm, but the blanket from work I'm not so cool with. I don't know. Since they are moving to their house. I just don't see them lessoning. So this may not even be an issue!



  2. #62
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    Really they just sound a little careless-- they did what worked for them and made you an afterthought.


    They're teaching you how to treat them: Don't break a sweat in the future.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  3. #63
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
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    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by halteralter98 View Post
    The boarder is a police officer, but he did not use this in ANY way to get the horse.
    But it certainly appears that he thinks he can welsh on a legally binding contract, no matter what he does for a living. That said, I would think that, being an LEO, that he would have a particular responsibility to be honorable and legal in his legal dealings. Either way, I wouldn't cut him any slack on the tenets of the contract he signed, and what he owes you.


    I just am wondering if maybe that is playing into his perception of the scenario? They came while we were at a show. Texted me while at the show, so I was not looking for the horse. He had told me he was taking the horse away for a bit that day, but he didn't come back. The horse is closer to his home and it's easier for him now until his barn is built (horse is about 10 miles closer). So really he, I don't think, meant any harm by it, it's just how it happened and how he went about telling me.


    Umm, this sent my BS meter into overdrive. Seriously? He's a conniving jerk, and in your shoes, I would not only be calling him on his behaviour, but asking him point blank how his precinct captain would take the news that one of his officers was reneging on contracts.

    They have been riding her for over a year. Purchased the horse Sept 1st and came to board until their barn was done. Oddly enough left Oct 7th after paying for all of October, so really I'm not "out" anything except that boarder for November. But do want credit for lessons and a blanket. I really have no issues with the lessons here at my farm, but the blanket from work I'm not so cool with. I don't know. Since they are moving to their house. I just don't see them lessoning. So this may not even be an issue!
    So, their barn at their house isn't ready, but they moved the horse to ANOTHER barn, before they were able to bring pony home? Really? And you think they're being square and honest with you?

    In your shoes, I think I'd be headed to small claims court. Or, at the very least, making sure the LEO's superiors know what he's playing at.

    As always, JMO.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  4. #64
    Join Date
    Jun. 27, 2010
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    SE VA
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    1,192

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    Quote Originally Posted by halteralter98 View Post
    I had a boarder that paid for a month of board on Oct 1st. On the 7th said boarder left with horse and took to another barn. Sent a text and said "X offered to keep horse". That was it, that was all. Would you be willing to give boarder a credit on unused board toward lessons or would you be apt to say "too bad, so sad?"
    umm, no. I'd tell said boarder I will be expecting a check for the first week of nov, assuming your contract states you need a 30 day notice. Tacky!



  5. #65
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2003
    Posts
    3,589

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    They didn't just decide that day to take their horse, they had obviously planned it. You don't just wake up one day and say "I think I'll move today!".

    Dear ex-boarder,
    I was disappointed to be informed of your move by text. According to our boarding contract you were obligated to give me 30 days notice of moving therefore in reality, not only am I not owe you any refund, but indeed you are owe me an additional 7 days to make up the difference with the 30 days notice. As a friendly gesture, I have offered to provide you with x lessons at no charge, however I am unable to refund you any monies out of pocket, nor will I be able to purchase the blanket that you are looking for. Please let me know if you would like to schedule these lessons, which will have to be taken this month. Best of luck with your new barn.

    Regards
    XXXX



  6. #66
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2009
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    1,804

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    The OP truly allows bullies to walk all over her.

    OP - just make sure if they want any of the credit you offer them in the way of lessons, it is ONLY extended for the month of October. after that, all credit is forfiet. Otherwise they'll be dragging this out until summer, when dear daughter has more time for the lessons.

    This is not how you, the business owner, should manage yourself. You cannot allow people you contract with to dictate you spending money on their lack of concern for their agreements with you. Why'd you even have them sign a contract if you are going to excuse them out of it? This is going to be a bad reputation for you. Ignorance of business acumen is no excuse on your part. "He didn't mean it"?? what on earth are you talking about? Its not up to you to decide what he meant or how he felt or what his intentions were. He has to be honest and honorable with you and your agreements, period. His feelings and motivations are NONE of your concern.
    Trainer's website - photos of my horse Airborne under About and Francesca Edwards also in media page 1

    http://www.patricianorciadressage.com/



  7. #67
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2010
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    46

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    Ok, so I have been bullied, and I realize this. We were very close friends, even up til Saturday! I have to say after he left I sort of withdrew and stopped communication. I just didn't want to be bothered. I don't ever text him anything, so there really was never a reason for him to text me. Except that I was at a horse show and he thought I couldn't talk. So talk to me later, but whatever.

    I probably am, well in fact I am being bullied, but I genuinely am a nice person. Many things I help my boarders with and don't charge. I appreciate the fact that they come out and help fill water, etc. So I do favors in return. More then likely they just think the favors are being extended. I don't even know that they will want to take lessons. So I don't want to say "you have til the end of October". If he contacts me I may say end of November, or give him 30 days to use them up at my farm. I'm not traveling to their house. Well I would for 100.00.



  8. #68
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    Nov. 2, 2001
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    Packing my bags
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    30,673

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    Quote Originally Posted by halteralter98 View Post
    Ok, so I have been bullied, and I realize this. We were very close friends, even up til Saturday! I have to say after he left I sort of withdrew and stopped communication. I just didn't want to be bothered. I don't ever text him anything, so there really was never a reason for him to text me. Except that I was at a horse show and he thought I couldn't talk. So talk to me later, but whatever.

    I probably am, well in fact I am being bullied, but I genuinely am a nice person. Many things I help my boarders with and don't charge. I appreciate the fact that they come out and help fill water, etc. So I do favors in return. More then likely they just think the favors are being extended. I don't even know that they will want to take lessons. So I don't want to say "you have til the end of October". If he contacts me I may say end of November, or give him 30 days to use them up at my farm. I'm not traveling to their house. Well I would for 100.00.
    I have skimmed some of this.

    I am pretty much with ESG on this.
    He has a contract with you (not sure how your lessons are spelled out) but fr all I would care, he could take a long walk of a short pier.
    Not t knock cops, some seem to think the sun rises from their behinds. Putting a bit of pressure her, some there....

    he owes you money.
    Per contract.
    The blankets? Nonya, girl! He wants them, he gets them, with his money.

    I would certainly send him an invoice of what he owes you. Certified mail. because he was friends as long as he got something from you, I am sure he won't be much longer when you can't provide anymore.


    Actually, it is unfair to put this on his profession. Some people are just jerks, no matter the job they hold.

    Lessons?
    I don't think I'd extend the offer to him until his bill is squared away.

    This is no friendship, this is BUSINESS!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2010
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    Satan's Steam Sauna
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    626

    Default Seriously hope you see a lesson here

    Quote Originally Posted by halteralter98 View Post
    The boarder is a police officer, but he did not use this in ANY way to get the horse. I just am wondering if maybe that is playing into his perception of the scenario? They came while we were at a show. Texted me while at the show, so I was not looking for the horse. He had told me he was taking the horse away for a bit that day, but he didn't come back. The horse is closer to his home and it's easier for him now until his barn is built (horse is about 10 miles closer). So really he, I don't think, meant any harm by it, it's just how it happened and how he went about telling me.

    They have been riding her for over a year. Purchased the horse Sept 1st and came to board until their barn was done. Oddly enough left Oct 7th after paying for all of October, so really I'm not "out" anything except that boarder for November. But do want credit for lessons and a blanket. I really have no issues with the lessons here at my farm, but the blanket from work I'm not so cool with. I don't know. Since they are moving to their house. I just don't see them lessoning. So this may not even be an issue!
    HalterAlter -

    It could be argued that it's better that Police client lied to you via text and snuck the horse out during the day while you were gone to a show rather than sneaking the horse out after dark-- not an argument I would buy, but it is definitely YOUR situation to interpret & deal with.

    But, the fact that he came to pay the rent for October on the 7th -- shouldn't it have been paid on the 1st??? -- and removed the horse on the same day he paid the rent late, and then expected you to buy a blanket and give a credit for lessons -- at a discounted lesson rate no less. If he wasn't a cop, it almost resembles some kind of Nigerian / Craigslist scam of overpaying with a bad check / cashiers check and getting the victim to refund the overpayment...

    Please, please, please tell me he paid cash????

    I hate to belabor the point, but you are MOST DEFINITELY OUT something. He was legally obligated to pay you through November 7; and your fixed costs have not decreased. You are "saving" on feed and your own labor for this one horse; but gave away 1 lesson "day" to make up for each of the "missed" boarding days? (I don't even know what constitutes a lesson day -- hoping you mean a short 30 minute group lesson and not a full hour?) But, you said your lesson rate is higher than your prorated daily board rate, and I think you said the monthly board was $200. The standard for proration is usually based on a 30 day month; but I am sure this cajones gigante expects credit for 24 out of 31 days - yes? So, a credit of 24 days x $6.45 per day = $155 credit he wants from you. But he expects you to provide lessons at $6.45 per lesson instead of you usual higher rate? How much did you usually charge this client for lessons?

    I am really trying to understand the math on this whole thing -

    *$200 / month board includes what? 24/7 turnout or stall?
    I am just trying to figure out what you provide in terms of your variable out of pocket costs (hay? Feed? Mineral? Bedding? Dewormer?) or does the client provide all hay / feed / mineral / bedding / dewormer?

    And also curious about the amount of labor you estimate per horse per day or week or month - is it self care where the client does everything? Or do you feed? Clean stalls? Clean Paddocks & pastures?

    Lastly curious out general geographic area where you live -- no need for specifics. But, I live on the MS Gulf Coast; and I have almost year round pasture - bahia / coastal bermuda and then we overseed w/ rye & clover in fall; but we still put up 90 days of high quality grass hay to feed the horses and sheep free choice over the winter and during lush spring grass. Plus I do feed the horses some supplements. We live what has to be one of the least expensive farming areas in the country, so I am just genuinely curious about the math on this if you don't mind indulging my curiousity???
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  10. #70
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2009
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    1,804

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    Sorry repeat post
    Last edited by Ambitious Kate; Oct. 15, 2012 at 09:18 AM.
    Trainer's website - photos of my horse Airborne under About and Francesca Edwards also in media page 1

    http://www.patricianorciadressage.com/



  11. #71
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    11,672

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woodsperson View Post
    If I were you I would treat the remaining October board as payment in lieu of 30 days notice, which means the ex-boarder still owes you 7 days board. You can let her know you are waiving the additional 7 days.
    This is what I would think was right too.

    If you are going to be walked over and ignore your contract then I agree with what Kate posted (quoted below).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kate66 View Post
    They didn't just decide that day to take their horse, they had obviously planned it. You don't just wake up one day and say "I think I'll move today!".

    Dear ex-boarder,
    I was disappointed to be informed of your move by text. According to our boarding contract you were obligated to give me 30 days notice of moving therefore in reality, not only am I not owe you any refund, but indeed you are owe me an additional 7 days to make up the difference with the 30 days notice. As a friendly gesture, I have offered to provide you with x lessons at no charge, however I am unable to refund you any monies out of pocket, nor will I be able to purchase the blanket that you are looking for. Please let me know if you would like to schedule these lessons, which will have to be taken this month. Best of luck with your new barn.

    Regards
    XXXX



  12. #72
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2010
    Posts
    46

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    Quote Originally Posted by ldaziens View Post
    HalterAlter - But, the fact that he came to pay the rent for October on the 7th -- shouldn't it have been paid on the 1st??? -- and removed the horse on the same day he paid the rent late, and then expected you to buy a blanket and give a credit for lessons -- at a discounted lesson rate no less. If he wasn't a cop, it almost resembles some kind of Nigerian / Craigslist scam of overpaying with a bad check / cashiers check and getting the victim to refund the overpayment...

    Please, please, please tell me he paid cash????
    I never said he paid on the 7th. He paid on the 1st when board was due. Moved the horse on the 7th. He pays for turnout board only. Which includes hay twice a day, pasture 12 hours a day and up to 6 lbs of grain in a turnout situation. If the horse needs more the owners much switch to stall board which is much more. $200 a month is the norm around our area. Hay is still only 2.50 to 3.00 a bale. $200 a month is fair.



  13. #73
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2001
    Location
    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Question

    No one said your prices aren't fair. What we're saying is that this cop's treatment of you as a BO, isn't. And you don't seem to want to either acknowledge that, or do anything about it.

    That said, if you truly feel you haven't been hard done by, why bother to post this mess at all?
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  14. #74
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    Nov. 15, 2010
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    46

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    No one said your prices aren't fair. What we're saying is that this cop's treatment of you as a BO, isn't. And you don't seem to want to either acknowledge that, or do anything about it.

    That said, if you truly feel you haven't been hard done by, why bother to post this mess at all?
    Actually two posters have mentioned that 200 a month doesn't really cut it. But it's turnout board. Yes I agree his treatment is not fair. I've never said it was! I do think he's delusional about things. It's not cool to text something like this to anyone. And we had a good relationship before. Obviously this has put a damper in it. I've not contacted him all week.



  15. #75
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    Feb. 1, 2001
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    Finally...back in civilization, more or less
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    11,437

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    HA, I think you've actually been very reasonable and I think that approach will serve you well in this business.

    I know a lot of COTHers get up in arms about "not letting people" do this or that. Your boarder was obviously not in the right when he left without giving you proper notice. However, you now have a choice about how to respond, and frankly I think that deciding to work with them anyway, and offer a few lessons (which they may not even take you up on) is a pretty reasonable choice. I *would* gently point out to the boarder that the contract required notice, and thus he actually owes YOU, not the other way around. I would say that given that reality, you will not be purchasing any blankets or other supplies, but you'd be happy to offer X number of lessons as a gesture of goodwill.

    Letting people leave without creating extra unnecessary drama is usually a good thing for business, if you can do so without costing yourself a ton of $$. Consider it a PR/marketing expense if you wish, and enjoy the fact that you took the high road here and did not allow your former boarder's less than perfect behavior to provoke you into escalating the situation to the point where it was adversarial.
    **********
    We move pretty fast for some rabid garden snails.
    -PaulaEdwina



  16. #76
    Join Date
    Apr. 1, 2003
    Location
    Cocoa, Fla
    Posts
    4,065

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    Keep all board until you get a replacement boarder in. If less than 30 days then refund him the $6+/day as a gesture of good will. Explain to him the 30 days is in the contract to ensure you keep the money coming into the farm even if a boarder leaves before 30 days, as it may take at least 30 days (maybe more) to replace them. (Thus reminding him of the contract he signed).

    I personally wouldn't start the "credit thing" - if he's buying a blanket from you he sould pay you in full for said blanket. There is no way "you" should be purchasing them a blanket. Also the lessons could start / stop at any time - so you don't want kid to take a lesson partially paid via credit, and then they owe you money for the rest of the lesson (which could end up never being paid).

    Also with credit both of you need to accurately track it - more paperwork for you. Just give him a check (if his stall gets filled in less than 30 days) and be done with it.
    Sandy in Fla.



  17. #77
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2001
    Location
    Cambridge, IA
    Posts
    1,671

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    Good relationship? I think you set your bar a little low on that. I think you had a "I'll be nice to you as long as you are bending over for me" relationship. Sorry.

    Here's what I'd do:

    Lift the paragraph out of the contract that mentions 30 days' notice and copy it into an email with an attachment bill for 7 days' board at your higher rate.

    I'd also comment in that email that my previous offer of "credit" for lessons was a mistake and therefore invalid. I wouldn't even mention the blanket. The tone of the email will cover that.

    ****

    Whether you wish to or not, if you are accepting money, you are running a business, so either quit cashing checks or quit waffling about it.

    These people are at best clueless and at worst thugs. You don't need lesson clients like that. Time to cut bait.



  18. #78
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2010
    Location
    california
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    3,856

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucassb View Post
    HA, I think you've actually been very reasonable and I think that approach will serve you well in this business.

    I know a lot of COTHers get up in arms about "not letting people" do this or that. Your boarder was obviously not in the right when he left without giving you proper notice. However, you now have a choice about how to respond, and frankly I think that deciding to work with them anyway, and offer a few lessons (which they may not even take you up on) is a pretty reasonable choice. I *would* gently point out to the boarder that the contract required notice, and thus he actually owes YOU, not the other way around. I would say that given that reality, you will not be purchasing any blankets or other supplies, but you'd be happy to offer X number of lessons as a gesture of goodwill.

    Letting people leave without creating extra unnecessary drama is usually a good thing for business, if you can do so without costing yourself a ton of $$. Consider it a PR/marketing expense if you wish, and enjoy the fact that you took the high road here and did not allow your former boarder's less than perfect behavior to provoke you into escalating the situation to the point where it was adversarial.
    I agree with this. Clients sometimes really suck but it is a business and the last barn I left was unpleasant with 30 days notice and I would never be associated with that trainer again (I was only boarding). You seem like a great BO no reason to allow a boarder to change that perception for anyone.



  19. #79
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
    Location
    Michigan
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    10,272

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    Quote Originally Posted by halteralter98 View Post
    Actually two posters have mentioned that 200 a month doesn't really cut it. But it's turnout board. Yes I agree his treatment is not fair. I've never said it was! I do think he's delusional about things. It's not cool to text something like this to anyone. And we had a good relationship before. Obviously this has put a damper in it. I've not contacted him all week.
    Which is just regional--$225 is totally normal for full board around here. And also beside the point.

    They're out of line. You're fine, and being overly kind offering credit. They owe you for the month, and they can go buy their own bloody blanket.



  20. #80
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    Apr. 19, 2011
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    Madison, GA
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    Which is just regional--$225 is totally normal for full board around here. And also beside the point.

    They're out of line. You're fine, and being overly kind offering credit. They owe you for the month, and they can go buy their own bloody blanket.
    I totally agree.

    You could always bill them for a blanket in leiu of the 7 days of board in November. 9 x 7= 63 so maybe it'll have to be a sheet
    Southern Cross Guest Ranch
    An All Inclusive Guest Ranch Vacation - Georgia
    www.southcross.com
    RIP Bocephus March 2008 - April 2013



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