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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvp View Post
    I once boarded at a training barn with a nice/unusual clause in it's contract that would have helped here: Either side could bail on the deal within the first week and have the whole thing end. I believe that in that case the rest of that first month would have been refunded. The point was to allow anyone who was seriously unhappy to leave. The BO took some risk as the stall would sit open for 3 weeks (maybe). But then again, the trainer didn't have to put up with a very bad fit and also had "bought" the right to kick out a HO who revealed in that first week something that she just couldn't live with.
    Very smart BO / Trainer - When you are very good at what you do and other people know that you are very good at what you do and YOU know that you are very good at what you do; you realize that time & money are limited resources and the time you waste on PITA clients is time that could just as easily be spent with great clients who will derive the greatest benefit from your service and who will also provide the greatest financial reward; because great people tend to know other great people.
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  2. #42
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    Nov. 9, 2005
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    uk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frizzle View Post
    WOW!!! That is some nerve! They broke their contract, and are now trying to dictate how they should get their "refund," plus changing your rates?! Not cool.

    I would NOT buy them the blanket and would not refund any money. Just hand them the contract they signed and, like someone else mentioned, inform them that, while they really were required to give you 30 days notice and should therefore owe YOU money, you are willing to let that slide. Say it politely with a smile and go on your merry way. You don't foresee them bringing you any business in the future, and simply holding them to their contract is beyond fair.

    Don't let these people walk all over you!
    ditto



  3. #43
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    Nov. 9, 2005
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    uk
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    This. Someone comes in, pays board, then moves horse a week later with no notice, for no reason? To heck with that noise. Put on your big girl panties and stick to the contract you both signed. If you're worried about getting a bad business reputation, you can guarantee just that by making people sign contracts that you don't honor.
    ditto



  4. #44
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    Nov. 9, 2005
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    uk
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    Quote Originally Posted by halteralter98 View Post
    Boarder's daughter has taken lessons for a little over a year. Horse came Sept 1st and they are building a barn which should be done end of this month. So this was not a long term boarder, but they left via text 7 days into the month. Asked me to use "credit" to pay for a blanket they wanted me to pick up. Which really that is money out of my pocket.

    The board goes toward grain, hay, insurance and paying me for my time. We are not talking expensive board. 200 a month! So boarder wants blanket to go as credit and then lessons. I do think after they use up lessons I will never see them again as horse is at home and we all know how that goes.

    The board was "corrected" as boarder said 200 a month at 31 days is 6.45 and I said the daily rate is 9.00 a day if horse comes in for just a few days. My barn my rules there.

    called take the pppp big time

    mate
    they broke the contract - and are texting you to do xyz

    learn by this if you want to be a livery- then learn by the mistake that you allowed a livery to dictate to you


    something bothering me 200 a month isn't a lot to keep a horse at livery
    i am thinking this more like diy where by one pays the rent to do it yourself
    hence why your border line and feel out of pocket if one has been doing all the work and they just turn up and lessons included

    the reason you getting walked on is your to cheap pardon the pune and as for repretation - well one could look at it like cheap is what you get - so ones on a downer even before they started and bearing that in mind some will take the piss
    like the boarder/livery because your soft by offering up a cheaper option just to support your own horses via offering just enough to cover your costs


    so you need a huge re think in order to support yourself and your own horses via people you take in as livery if your a one man band then thats a lot of extra work even at the lowest livery charge of grass kept horses which here in uk
    is average 20 quid a week

    diy box and grazzing is between 25-30-45 pw depending on size of horse/pony
    box so if one had a pony for example at 25pw- on diy livery of box and grazzing and the diy brought there own feed and hay /bedding the cost of that pony equals that of your livery charge plus as one wouldn't be forgetting annual stuff of vets and farrier would be more than your offering as a border with
    hay feed and presumme bedding included so think on


    in comparision a part livery is everything but exercising full livery would be to exercise the horse
    a basic feed, a pony on part livery is average 120 a week
    a horse the same would be more 150 pw

    full liveries are higher as they do everything for the horse and owner
    the owners just come and ride said neddies

    time is what you do round the yard, like keeping it clean, pooh picking , rotating fields up keep of fencing etc and obiously lessons

    you really need to look at what you have and what you can offer people and your yard

    and your contract needs to reflect what you do and what you can offer and be water tight to cover you in all manners from health and saftey - people and equines /yard plus any transport you do plus yourself when teaching etc

    as for my barn my rules - thats ok but as there always a but when someone texts and moves off after 7 days

    then what are you doing wrong that they have to do that ------- like i said you need to re think that this as a learning curve and look at your farm for improvements and yourself

    your a bisness then act like one if one taking money from another your a bisness
    and one must comply to laws of tax and insurance and in what they are doing as owner for that facility if not you will be known as she ok you diddle her as she cheap and hasn't a clue and needs the money to keep her own

    and you will get a bad repretation of being skink lol
    do you really want that or will you change to improvements and say to all them out there my yard is a great success because its clean well kept horses are well looked yeah it maybe small but it has great facilites even when you have little or nothing if you have a decent yard with good fields and hacking and are good at what you do then the facilites are what you offer even if its yourself if you have a school then harrow it often and dampen it often at leat once a week to keep it nice keep jumps etc nicely in a corner have school rules that pooh picked up and equipment put away small changes make a big difference i hate riding in school that has old pooh or pooh in it this can reflect on how you up keep your facilties

    so up to you - change and go forwards with decent livery plans and up your market - or be cheap as chips

    ps- will add now they have built there own barn -the cost will increase for there own pony but watch it as if they take boarders in then your in competition and if they ran after 7 days and sent a text

    then they sure have a better bisness plan for the future -and like poeple said horse world is small and talk will come when they open so think on
    how are you going to improve to let others come to you and any talk
    is nonsense -if bad
    ps seen your tax inqueries and will say as your taking money via lessos and baorders all over - then you are a bisness and not a hobby farm and your tax has to reflect what your taking as income

    now seen as your objecting to it - of how much etc
    you need to realise how that looks with this thread here to be honest i would run to
    Last edited by goeslikestink; Oct. 14, 2012 at 05:03 AM.



  5. #45
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    Dec. 18, 2006
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    NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by halteralter98 View Post
    Boarder's daughter has taken lessons for a little over a year. Horse came Sept 1st and they are building a barn which should be done end of this month. So this was not a long term boarder, but they left via text 7 days into the month. Asked me to use "credit" to pay for a blanket they wanted me to pick up. Which really that is money out of my pocket.

    The board goes toward grain, hay, insurance and paying me for my time. We are not talking expensive board. 200 a month! So boarder wants blanket to go as credit and then lessons. I do think after they use up lessons I will never see them again as horse is at home and we all know how that goes.

    The board was "corrected" as boarder said 200 a month at 31 days is 6.45 and I said the daily rate is 9.00 a day if horse comes in for just a few days. My barn my rules there.
    Obviously they don't understand how it works. When they have their own barn maybe they will get it.

    Since it sounds like you have already offered lessons, I would just make sure they understand you are doing them a favor - this is not something you owe them. "Generally, there are no *refunds* for leaving within a month...you don't have a credit here...that's why contracts require a 30 day notice to leave. Had I known I would have had an open stall, I would have filled it with another boarder whose board payment would go toward my costs -- feed, insurance, maintenance, etc. But I will be willing to give you XX lessons - at my expense - since I would love to keep working with you and your horse..."

    The end. You are already being very generous.



  6. #46
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    Jan. 14, 2003
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    Massachusetts
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    And I think, based on the entitled behavior of this person, that I would write a new contract stating that you are providing lessons at a credit as a courtesy, despite the fact that she broke the contract and technically owes you money. Because what happens when poopsie seems to never have time to schedule lessons and then wants the money for the lessons? Does she take you to small claims court? Stranger things have happened.



  7. #47
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    Sep. 11, 2011
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    I'll admit I am downright shocked you would do any more business with anyone who leaves in this manner IF there was a clear contract involved.

    I have known of boarders being brought to small claims court over unpaid 30 days. The horse was sold but the client still is on the hook for 30 days.

    Agree THEY owe YOU and should do everything to try to stay in your good graces.



  8. #48
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    Jul. 24, 2007
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    Sycamore, South Carolina
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    I wouldn't do a refund because she didn't follow the contract and now you are looking at an empty stall in your barn for the rest of the month. "Correcting" your total is a bad sign, especially in light of how she just acted. I would have a heart to heart with her before continuing the relationship in a calm but firm manner, making sure she understands why you do/don't offer a refund, you pricing for daily vs monthly lessons, and how much you value communication. Her response would dictate if I chose to continue doing business with her or not.

    I agree with the others who said the horse world is small, so you can't let her have it for no notice and texting, but you sure don't want to be known as a door mat either.



  9. #49
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    Mar. 9, 2006
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    I think you owe them nothing. You still have fixed expenses even if an animal isn't eating hay and using bedding: mortgage, taxes, maintenance on the fields and fencing, and so forth. The reason a boarder owes 30 days notice is to give the barn owner a fair shot at bringing in another boarder to cover these expenses. (Or to hold off on incurring any expenses which can be postponed while cash flow is down.)



  10. #50
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    Oct. 31, 2001
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    West of insanity, east of apathy, deep in the heart of Texas.
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    Thumbs down

    Wait - you not only are considering giving lesson "credit" after the way they left, but they "corrected" your invoice and want you to pick up a blanket for them - and pay for it?!?!?

    Jeez, these people have stones the size of Texas. I would give them no refund, no credit, no nothing, and tell them to go pick up their own damned blanket. Really? Double

    Oh, and to those of you who opine that texting/e-mail/voice mailing a message that you're moving your horse is okay because "many people are uncomfortable with confrontation", grow the heck up. Life is full of confrontation. But when someone weasels out of a legally binding contract by up and leaving with no notice, that's not fear of confrontation; that's lack of manners and accountability. If you're slimy enough to sneak away and break a contract, you owe the person you just screwed an explanation - in person.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  11. #51
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    Jan. 29, 2010
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    So, given the tax confusion mentioned in previous thread another poster mentioned -- you REALLY need to consult a new accountant and possibly a tax attorney who can go over different ways to structure your business and the tax implications. #1 Do NOT ever refer to your business as a hobby farm -- EVER -- ever again -- not verbally, not in writing, not to friends, not to family, not to clients, not online. There are not tax deductions for hobbies or hobby farms - period. And, based on what you have indicated, you are putting in the work to run a business.

    And, in reading how this situation was handled. It sounds like business management is not your greatest strength. I am not trying to be mean as I have a degree in Elementary Education and taught in public school; which is the complete opposite of a profit motivated business. I ended up going to work in commercial real estate leasing class A office space in Washington DC and had some wonderful mentors. My experience teaching gave me a lot of skills that business majors lack; but there was a lot that I didn't know.

    My recommendation is that you run - don't walk - to some resources for your business!

    The Small Business Administration --

    Find your local office, get yourself dressed for a professional job interview, and make an appointment to go in and discuss what the SBA can do for you
    http://www.sba.gov/content/find-local-sba-office

    *Most definitely you need to create a comprehensive business plan and budget forcast, which you need to track.

    SCORE -- offer free business advice and workshops / mentoring
    http://www.sba.gov/content/score

    Small Business Development Centers
    http://www.sba.gov/content/small-bus...-centers-sbdcs

    Women's Business Centers
    http://www.sba.gov/content/women’s-business-centers

    I would highly recommend that you take a class & get proficient in using Quickbooks & TurboTax -- we use a professional tax preparer, but I run everything through TurboTax first.

    Quickbooks Billing Solutions can be a great tool especially if you have issues with slow paying clients
    http://payments.intuit.com/products/...ne-billing.jsp

    If you schedule lessons, web based scheduling software is a huge timesaver. I used AppointmentsPlus for my tutoring business -- no time wasted on phone trying to schedule, cancel, reschedule. Parents could go online, see my availability, and schedule appointments 24/7.
    http://www.appointment-plus.com/

    *** Know your competition -- this should be a huge part of your business plan -- both for boarding and for lessons. For all kinds of reasons, you do not want to get your customers by being the "cheapest" option, but obviously your rates have to reflect the quality of service that you are providing & your personal qualifications. And, I've always networked and had good relationships w/ my "competitors" and we refer business back and forth. The most expensive "best" boarding facilities and trainers turn people away, and if they know you and what you offer your clients; then they will refer people that they feel could be a good fit with you.

    *** Farm Bureau, Extension Office -- Farmer Stuff --

    You need to be sure that you are taking advantage of all of the farm expertise available. And, please make sure that your business is properly registered, licensed, and insured as required by Federal, State, and Local government. Homeowners insurance may cover a hobby farm, but probably not a business. Professional liability insurance along w/ waivers drafted by a good attorney -- and realize that people can sue over anything and everything; and you can be 110% legally in the right and still have to spend money on legal fees. And, if you are providing private lessons to kids; and especially if you are ever alone with a child; you need to fully understand the potential liability there. For example, you have given a credit for lessons to a mother that most of us would not touch with a 10 ft pole. When I started my tutoring business, I set up an LLC, got all appropriate business licenses and insurance and extra liability; and I was extremely selective about the parents and kids I would work with. A small business can be a source of income; but it can also be a HUGE liability if the business is not structured properly and is not insured properly. There are tons of very smart, competent people who have been financially devastated by lawsuits.

    Anyway, I'm sorry if this is preachy; but I feel like there's some additional knowledge and resources that you could definitely benefit from taking advantage of. And, I am posting it vs. PM; because I am 110% sure that there are countless others who love horses; have some extra stall and pasture space or extra room in their trailer to haul horses; and they end up in "business" w/o dotting every "i" and "crossing every t". And, in the future, they may read this and think wow, I didn't think about that.

    I also know that people will completely take advantage if given an inch; and you definitely got played by this client in a pretty amazing way But, in the scheme of things, this is a fairly painless wake up call. And, again, as CotH teaches us time and again; even the bestest and brightest and most experienced end up in some amazingly screwed up situations -- which is inevitable when you work with people, kids, AND horses. Just don't stick your head in the sand!
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  12. #52
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    Dec. 11, 2005
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    Southern California - Hemet
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Wait - you not only are considering giving lesson "credit" after the way they left, but they "corrected" your invoice and want you to pick up a blanket for them - and pay for it?!?!?
    What ESG said. With this additional information, it sure looks like these people are taking advantage of you at this point. Newer to horse ownership they may be, but that's no excuse for this behavior and attitude.



  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by halteralter98 View Post
    I had a boarder that paid for a month of board on Oct 1st. On the 7th said boarder left with horse and took to another barn. Sent a text and said "X offered to keep horse". That was it, that was all. Would you be willing to give boarder a credit on unused board toward lessons or would you be apt to say "too bad, so sad?"
    No freakin' way! Just be glad you have 21 days to fill the stall while not feeding her horse.



  14. #54
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    Nov. 15, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldaziens View Post
    So, given the tax confusion mentioned in previous thread another poster mentioned -- you REALLY need to consult a new accountant and possibly a tax attorney who can go over different ways to structure your business and the tax implications. #1 Do NOT ever refer to your business as a hobby farm -- EVER -- ever again -- not verbally, not in writing, not to friends, not to family, not to clients, not online. There are not tax deductions for hobbies or hobby farms - period. And, based on what you have indicated, you are putting in the work to run a business.
    Well that is what my tax account refers to it as to me, even though it's a second job.I have a full time job, so that is why I call it that. And really I'm trying to figure out the best way to STOP claiming taxes because with the recession the government is always losing these days. I'd rather just discontinue doing it for their sake!

    I don't think I've lost anything yet! In fact he lost out when he pulled his horse Oct 7th after paying for the month of Oct. I don't think they are going to want to come back for lessons. They will have their horse at home around Nov 1st and in the past people around here that have horses at home, just don't take lessons.

    I didn't necessarily agree to the blanket yet, and I'm thinking that I'm going to say no on that, because that is expense direct out of my pocket and that is not fair at all. If he wants one he can get it at the retail cost and pay for it.



  15. #55
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    Nov. 15, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by laskiblue View Post
    What ESG said. With this additional information, it sure looks like these people are taking advantage of you at this point. Newer to horse ownership they may be, but that's no excuse for this behavior and attitude.
    Wonder if the fact he's a cop plays into his manipulative type behavior. I've not wanted to think that, but I'm starting to think that may be why he's trying to "call the shots" and telling me what he wants me to do. I do think it's a lot of new horse ownership and not knowing the rules. But still....I think had they called the day they moved the horse and TALKED to me. I would have been a lot more lenient on the remainder due and forgiving the days paid with credit. Texting just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.



  16. #56
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    Jul. 31, 2007
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    So the HO has dictated terms to the BO.... by text? And now she wants you to do something with a blanket that costs you money out of pocket?

    How about texting her, "No"? Hehe.

    Consider the business relationship over. Eat the loss here. It's less than the cost of dinner out, right? Consider it a lesson learned and move on.

    Don't do the same thing again. After all, you paid some tuition to learn this lesson. Remember the amount it cost you.
    The armchair saddler
    Politically Pro-Cat



  17. #57
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    Oct. 29, 1999
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    I would send a message that you are willing to ignore the remaining 7 days of the notice they owe for board, due to the fact that the horse will not be using your supplies during the remaining 3 weeks. If you have already offered the credit for lessons, I would be specific that it was offered as a friendly gesture, and not something you feel you owe them, since they left without notice.



  18. #58
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    Jan. 29, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by halteralter98 View Post
    Wonder if the fact he's a cop plays into his manipulative type behavior. I've not wanted to think that, but I'm starting to think that may be why he's trying to "call the shots" and telling me what he wants me to do. I do think it's a lot of new horse ownership and not knowing the rules. But still....I think had they called the day they moved the horse and TALKED to me. I would have been a lot more lenient on the remainder due and forgiving the days paid with credit. Texting just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    Personally, every new detail of this story is using up my allotment.

    I'm not trying to be sexist, ageist, location biased; but I am definitely curious as to genders, approx. ages, and geographic location.

    All that aside; you are now telling us a cop snuck a horse off your property and texted you after the fact and expected a refund -- or rather expected you to purchase a blanket and refund or credit or whatever. And that the deal was that the horse was boarding with you until they finished their barn; but the horse didn't disappear to client's house / barn- it's going to stay at a 3rd parties place until the end of the month.

    I have dealt with all kinds of high powered clients -- plenty of attorneys, Fed government execs, FBI, CIA, State Dept, and a DC cop. I can assure you NONE of them would dream of pulling a stunt like this. MOST especially the cop -- because he could have lost his job over breaking a contract and even giving the perception of misusing his authority to pressure somebody for financial gain. So, what I am saying is -- not the actions of a good person & definitely not the actions of a good cop. However, now that I live in MS and outside New Orleans; I am very aware that there are more than a few shady cops.

    So, if it was me; I would have to weigh my initial impulse to march right into the Chief of Police or Sheriff's office and innocently ask for advice on how to handle this "awkward" situation with his employee who is sworn to uphold the LAW, but won't honor contracts he's signed.

    But, given that you already volunteered the credit scenario, I would make him sign a statement acknowledging the terms of the contract he signed with a copy of the contract attached and stating that despite the fact that he is contractually obligated to pay you through November 7 and that he removed his horse without notice or explanation and sent you a text after the fact; that you are issuing this refund but that unfortunately, you cannot continue to do business with a client who does not honor a contract. And, then I would never have anything to do with these people ever again, and I sure as hell would not give risky riding lessons to the child of a shady cop.

    Does your boarding contract list hours of operation, and did he remove the horse outside of those hours? Or did he just leave for a trail ride and not come back? I would think that most BO would have a heart attack if they thought a horse was "missing" for any period of time. If that guy snuk onto your property at night outside of hours, I'd be seeing an attorney.

    Seriously, sever all ties with these people -- the refund is a small price to do it. I will be judgmental and say you are a fool to continue any kind of relationship w/ this client; and if you chose to do this credit lesson nonsense, and it takes a turn, which it will; I can't imagine too much sympathy here
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  19. #59
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    Sep. 15, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Wait - you not only are considering giving lesson "credit" after the way they left, but they "corrected" your invoice and want you to pick up a blanket for them - and pay for it?!?!?

    Jeez, these people have stones the size of Texas. I would give them no refund, no credit, no nothing, and tell them to go pick up their own damned blanket. Really? Double

    Oh, and to those of you who opine that texting/e-mail/voice mailing a message that you're moving your horse is okay because "many people are uncomfortable with confrontation", grow the heck up. Life is full of confrontation. But when someone weasels out of a legally binding contract by up and leaving with no notice, that's not fear of confrontation; that's lack of manners and accountability. If you're slimy enough to sneak away and break a contract, you owe the person you just screwed an explanation - in person.
    This!!!
    the NOT!! Spoiled!! Arabian Protectavest poster pony lives on in my heart



  20. #60
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    Oct. 31, 2001
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    A cop?!?!? Really?!?!? @$$hat - I'd not only tell him to go pound sand, but I'd seriously consider reporting him to his precinct. Absolutely no knowledge of how police departments view the civilian conduct of their officers, but I do know that military officers engaging in this sort of chicanery would be subject to formal disciplinary procedures. I'm thinking, in your shoes, I'd be wanting to find out.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



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