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  1. #81
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    Jul. 2, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    Actually, the Exo vest was designed to do just this. It is really unfortunate that the Exo did not have the marketing machine behind it that the air vest companies do. I can imagine the Exo v2.0 being quite a good piece of gear.
    +1 to that. I own and wear an Exo vest even though I only do Training level. They're not for everyone, as the sizing is pretty rigid, and heavier than most vests. (Although a P2 + regular vest is within a pound or two of the weight of an Exo.)

    Rotational falls can happen at any level, any height. I just had a near-rotational fall when my horse chested a 2' high log. Unfortunately I was NOT wearing my Exo (it was a last-minute school), but fortunately his feet missed my torso by inches.
    -my life-
    Translation
    fri [fri:] fritt fria (adj): Free
    skritt [skrit:] skritten (noun): Walk



  2. #82
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    May. 6, 2007
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    Napanee ON
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    It's been a few years, why is there still NO data.



  3. #83
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    Feb. 9, 2005
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    Upper Midwest
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    5,832

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    If the Exo vest has a metal frame, couldn't it be crushed into you? Genuine question...I'm not familiar with their technology, but that was my first thought.
    Siouxland Sporthorses: http://slsfarm.blogspot.com/

    DIY Journey of Remodeling the Farmette: http://weownblackacre.blogspot.com/



  4. #84
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    Jul. 10, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
    If the Exo vest has a metal frame, couldn't it be crushed into you? Genuine question...I'm not familiar with their technology, but that was my first thought.
    No. Contrary to popular thought and the mis-information that other riders and folks in power spread, magnesium does not act like steel.

    The atomic arrangement of magnesium alloys prevent ductile failure and so it will flex but spring back. If it is flexed to the point of breaking, is shatters. It is a prefect cage alloy (e.g. long used in auto frames etc.).



  5. #85
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    Feb. 24, 2011
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    Idaho
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    151

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post
    By restricting the flexion of the back, all impact forces had to be transferred via an AXIAL load, resulting in the compression and burst fracture. This is based on studies done on high speed impact injuries on flexed and rigid backs. The impact energy MUST go somewhere, and without rigid fixation of the vest to the rider's hip AND shoulders, the energy will travel axially down the spine.
    So, Reed and wildlifer: I have read several web pages about spinal axial load and burst fractures, but I'm still not entirely sure I understand how this works. Can you explain in fairly simple terms or with pictures?

    From the description, it sounds like she and the horse basically went \ into the ground, yes? and then they went skidding like this __ ? I can kind of follow how that would cause the burst fracture, but I'd love to hear the mechanical breakdown from the experts.
    Nanakorobi yaoki: Seven times fall, eight times rise.
    http://reveilleandrinsie.blogspot.com



  6. #86
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    Jul. 10, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
    Question... are you seeing a one-for-one replacement of penetrating/perforating with internal trauma/shattering (i.e. a bullet wound that would have killed someone is now hitting the body armor and breaking ribs)... or because there are less penetrating wounds, that secondary category of wound type has now become the most frequent? Or is it some combination of the two?

    I ask out of personal curiosity- I just spent the weekend with a bunch of combat medics and military doctors/surgeons all with multiple deployments, and it was interesting to hear about what they saw injury-wise and treatment protocol 5-10 years ago vs. now in military field medicine.

    The injury cause rates are the same as WWII, Viet Nam, but the types of injuries are changing. I can not comment on if there is a 1-to-1 relationship as I don't think the database exists. The one I have seen is the Joint Theater Trauma database. One thing is noted, that the better protection also is the result of better, higher energy methods of taking the body apart.

    In the spine world there is an INCREASE of lumbar and thoracic injuries, mostly due to translocation (being thrown through the air) of a soldier in an explosive event (The Spine Journal - Wartime spine injuries: understanding IEDs).

    There is evidence, but not conclusive, that rigid body armor, while preventing the penetrating wound, causes the body to be rigid in flight, meaning the impact forces, when the person hits the wall, ground, inside of the tank, get transmitted directly into the spine. Ala, a rigid posture as the result of airvest inflation or a very rigid foam standard vest.



  7. #87
    Join Date
    Dec. 7, 2004
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
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    511

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    Actually, the Exo vest was designed to do just this. It is really unfortunate that the Exo did not have the marketing machine behind it that the air vest companies do. I can imagine the Exo v2.0 being quite a good piece of gear.
    Ditto.

    I have an Exo, and ride in it, and love it.



  8. #88
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    Mar. 29, 2011
    Posts
    102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    From the ProAir description, the manufacture recommends that the vest be worn with a conventional body protector. They say that some riders tell the manufacturer that they prefer to wear it on their own. But I interpret the following as the manufacturer recommending their vest be worn with a conventional body protector:
    I would imagine this charming tidbit was a product of their legal department, not their R&D department. It screams "CYA" to me.

    And count me among the RAyers fan club members! I very much enjoy the infusion of evidence-based research into a market often dominated by anecdotes and clever marketing.
    The plural of anecdote is not data



  9. #89
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    Oct. 15, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post
    There is evidence, but not conclusive, that rigid body armor, while preventing the penetrating wound, causes the body to be rigid in flight, meaning the impact forces, when the person hits the wall, ground, inside of the tank, get transmitted directly into the spine. Ala, a rigid posture as the result of airvest inflation or a very rigid foam standard vest.
    Makes sense. Thanks for the further explanation.



  10. #90
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    Apr. 2, 2009
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    North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blugal View Post
    Actually, the Exo vest was designed to do just this. It is really unfortunate that the Exo did not have the marketing machine behind it that the air vest companies do. I can imagine the Exo v2.0 being quite a good piece of gear.
    True, but I was under the impression that it was no longer on the market. If I am wrong, yay!

    Reveille, I am NOT a spinal reconstruction expert like Reed, I just have a good working knowledge of physiology, biology, and physics; but basically, if you land, say, on your head at an angle \, then your spine will bend S and some force will be dissipated in different directions by this bending. You might bend in a not so nice way and get fractures, but they would be different kinds of fractures (say pieces of vertebrae breaking off or your neck breaking, which a vest can't stop anyway, or joints torn). Or you might be able to roll and release the energy that way if you are more coordinated than someone like me.

    If you take away the ability for the spine to bend by holding it rigid, all the force is taken as a direct hit, basically smashing the ends together, like if you took a slinky and smooshed it shut. The energy/force from the impact then has nowhere to go but must get out somehow because it can't just shoot out your @$$ like a lightning bolt (unfortunately, wouldn't that be handy?), so you see vertebrae "burst" from the force of being compressed against each other.

    If my description is inaccurate, I am sure King Reed shall fix it!



  11. #91
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    Jan. 26, 2001
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    NC
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    this has been very helpful. I think I will save my money.



  12. #92
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    Bingo, wildlifer. Well said.



  13. #93
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    Mar. 1, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildlifer View Post
    True, but I was under the impression that it was no longer on the market.
    They are no longer being manufactured. You can still buy them though; mostly in the UK, but you can google the size chart and then try googling your size. I did this a while ago and found many for sale. Unfortunately, my body shape didn't really work with their v1.0 standard sizes.
    Blugal

    You never know what kind of obsessive compulsive crazy person you are until another person imitates your behaviour at a three-day. --Gry2Yng



  14. #94
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    The general feeling I get is that a lot of people feel as though they've avoided soreness, bruising, and getting banged around by wearing one during a fall. The jury is very much OUT on whether they offer meaningful protection vs. the types of injuries that actually scare me and a lot of other people. I can live with some bruises and bumps and even a broken bone or two. I do not delude myself that this type of equipment is going to protect me from a truly devastating injury, and until that question is answered along with the "bugs" that need working out I don't feel compelled to wear one.
    Click here before you buy.



  15. #95
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    May. 6, 2007
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    Napanee ON
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    Exactly... and jury is still out on whether they CAUSE injury...



  16. #96
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    Feb. 24, 2011
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    Idaho
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildlifer View Post
    Reveille, I am NOT a spinal reconstruction expert like Reed, I just have a good working knowledge of physiology, biology, and physics
    <snip>
    the energy/force from the impact then has nowhere to go but must get out somehow because it can't just shoot out your @$$ like a lightning bolt (unfortunately, wouldn't that be handy?), so you see vertebrae "burst" from the force of being compressed against each other.
    BWAHAHAHAHAHA! That makes much more sense than all the various websites I've read; thank you.

    And just think -- if the horse spooks at the CO2 cartridge going off, just imagine what it would do at the lightning bolt from the rider's @$$!!
    Nanakorobi yaoki: Seven times fall, eight times rise.
    http://reveilleandrinsie.blogspot.com



  17. #97
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    Jul. 10, 2001
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReveilleandRinsie View Post
    <snip>


    BWAHAHAHAHAHA! That makes much more sense than all the various websites I've read; thank you.

    And just think -- if the horse spooks at the CO2 cartridge going off, just imagine what it would do at the lightning bolt from the rider's @$$!!

    Ahem,...

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...size=604%2C432



  18. #98
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    Jul. 21, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post
    Very impressive Reed! So many people think the sun shines out of your backside, and now, PROOF!



  19. #99
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    Feb. 24, 2011
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    Idaho
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post
    Talk about blowing sunshine ...
    Nanakorobi yaoki: Seven times fall, eight times rise.
    http://reveilleandrinsie.blogspot.com



  20. #100
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    Apr. 2, 2009
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    North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAyers View Post
    Bingo, wildlifer. Well said.
    OMG OMG OMG, I have the monarch's approval! *swoon*

    I revise my statement however -- you cannot shoot lightning out of your bum....unless you are Reed. So wait, Reed, you are X-man too? The wonder never ends...



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