[Jealoushe]

Says Brian O on Stuart Horse Trials FB page. Everyone needs to go out and buy one!

Wow would love to see the science behind this.

[deltawave]

Survivors of something traumatic can be very emotional about things that they perceive to have been helpful. ("I was driving a Ford when I had that accident and I walked away unhurt. I'll NEVER own another make of car", etc.) I'd give her a pass on saying it, herself, but it's perfectly ridiculous to elevate that sort of comment to the level of Dogma. But not surprising in the least.

[vineyridge]

I've been wondering if air vest technology could be tweaked to make them useful in spinal injuries. If the part over the spine could be modified to include a piece that would inflate to expand up to the base of the head like a collar and contain enough air to become rigid when it inflates, it could act as an immobilizer, couldn't it?

[wildlifer]

Agree with deltawave. And the fact that she says it twice in the first article leads me to suspect that she is instructed by her sponsor to "namedrop" whenever possible.

[deltawave]

If the part over the spine could be modified to include a piece that would inflate to expand up to the base of the head like a collar and contain enough air to become rigid when it inflates, it could act as an immobilizer, couldn't it?

Or it could turn a non-displaced fracture into a projectile aimed directly at the spinal cord. TOO unpredictable. I'd rather NOT have extra force being applied at high velocity to my spine in the event of a fracture. I want the immobilization to be done by capable human hands who know what they're doing, not a random piece of equipment that only knows how to do one thing: push.

That's not to say there isn't POTENTIAL for improving or making air vests a solid piece of safety equipment, but just like almost every other product marketed for horses, the sales force is light years ahead of the R&D department.

[RAyers]

I've been wondering if air vest technology could be tweaked to make them useful in spinal injuries. If the part over the spine could be modified to include a piece that would inflate to expand up to the base of the head like a collar and contain enough air to become rigid when it inflates, it could act as an immobilizer, couldn't it?

The fractures were in the thoracic spine, not cervical. A horse collar would do nothing.

My working theory is that the airvest CAUSED Karen's spine injuries. Actually, my working theory is any rigid vest will induce an axial spinal injury.

By restricting the flexion of the back, all impact forces had to be transferred via an AXIAL load, resulting in the compression and burst fracture. This is based on studies done on high speed impact injuries on flexed and rigid backs. The impact energy MUST go somewhere, and without rigid fixation of the vest to the rider's hip AND shoulders, the energy will travel axially down the spine.

Needless to say, I made my POV known on the fb page.

[wildlifer]

Sigh. I will never get over my interwebz love for Reed. Never. Always fight for the science!

[tle]

It's really nice when one's feelings are backed up by others who have some kind of experience in this realm. Thanks Lynn and Reed!

[Jealoushe]

This quote was from Brian O, not Karen. It scares me that influential people can use these events to push products with no scientific testing backing.

[AKB]

Has Karen released the video so someone can analyze the physics of the injury? I heard that she was hit in the back by a knee or hoof, in which case her vest and air vest probably provided some protection. However, that scenario doesn't sound compatible with her type of injury, as I guess the burst fracture and compression fracture are not usually related to a direct blow.

[wildlifer]

Oh, btw Reed, just looked at Point Two's FB page -- it appears they deleted your comment if you left one on their main page. They really don't like it when we pesky science people chime in. They are so "disappointed" that we are raining on their parade with our silly "misinformation." Stupid physics, ruins everything.

[Jealoushe]

It's on the Stuart HT page... Thanks for chiming in Reed!

[RAyers]

.... as I guess the burst fracture and compression fracture are not usually related to a direct blow.

EXACTLY!!!!

Burst fractures can happen in car accidents where no obvious external trauma happens. They can happen when jumping off something and landing with rigid body position (e.g. locking the legs).

[shea'smom]

Are you also saying the regular vests don't help?
Also, do you feel the benefits of the air vests are worth the $$? I know you don't think they are a miracle worker, but nothing is.

[RAyers]

Are you also saying the regular vests don't help?
Also, do you feel the benefits of the air vests are worth the $$? I know you don't think they are a miracle worker, but nothing is.

It depends on what injuries you are trying to prevent.

No vest will prevent internal injuries. Our insides are too sloshy.

Standard vests simply are intended to transfer/absorb impact forces around the body. Airvests claim injury reduction via the same idea but they have little data to prove it.

No, I don't think airvests are worth the $$$. I do think they change the impact dynamics such that a whole different set of injuries are more likely.

[celtic_cross]

Point Two air vest inflates IN - towards the body. This causes pressure and for some, this also makes it very hard to breathe.

The Hit Air air vest inflates OUT - away from the body. This reduces the pressure on the body and lessens the feeling that you cannot breathe.

Hit Air's vest does have a chamber on either side of the spine to help stabilize and protect. It also has a collar that inflates up around the neck, right up to the helmet line, covering the collar bones and keeping the neck stable.

Hit Air's vest also has a piece that inflates and covers the tailbone helping protect that area from damage.

Hit Air started out as a motorcycle vest. All of their major testing was done years ago, so when they modified it for equestrian use, only a few tests had to be conducted. This is why the price point is cheaper - they've already paid for all of those tests and are not passing those expenses along to you.

No matter which air vest you wear, wear one that you like and are comfortable with. If you aren't comfortable in it, you won't wear it and it's not doing you any good hanging in your trailer.

Try them both out. Have them inflated while you wear it. Put it on over your cross country vest.

Get one. Wear it. It's worth the money (though I obviously think Hit Air is the way to go).

Do NOT buy Point Two's all in one vest. The one with the air vest built in with your regular (required) cross country vest. What happens when your horse is over enthusiastic in warm-up and your blow your vest up??? You cannot ride with an inflated vest - it's against the rules.

[RAyers]

The preceding post was presented via a generous donation from the "Amercan Airvest Manufacturers Association."

[Rallycairn]

It depends on what injuries you are trying to prevent.

No vest will prevent internal injuries. Our insides are too sloshy.

Standard vests simply are intended to transfer/absorb impact forces around the body. Airvests claim injury reduction via the same idea but they have little data to prove it.

No, I don't think airvests are worth the $$$. I do think they change the impact dynamics such that a whole different set of injuries are more likely.

Which type of injuries are, speaking in terms of probabilities, more likely to be catastrophic -- the types you would be more likely to sustain with NO vest, the types you would be more likely to sustain with a rigid traditional vest, or the types you would be more likely to sustain with an air vest? I wanna go with the best odds of avoiding catastrophic injury.

[monstrpony]

By "axial" you mean along the axis of the spine, as in compressing the spine vertically (well, would be vertically if the person were standing up). Is that right?

[Jealoushe]

The preceding post was presented via a generous donation from the "Amercan Airvest Manufacturers Association."

LOL from HIT AIR I am guessing?

Thanks for stopping by... Can you supply us with some testing data with horse and rider?