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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar. 7, 2012
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    119

    Default UPDATE post #29 - Suddenly footsore in BOTH front feet!

    I have a horse rehabbing from an extremely mild suspensory in his hind end. He is in a stall 12 hours then out in a tiny paddock 12 hours and grazed and handwalked regularly as well as rehabbed undersaddle. Before this injury he sported just front shoes and I pulled them during rehab to cut some of my costs ( he has pretty solid feet). He has been sound this whole time in the front, even barefoot. WELL farrier came out to trim him on a Thursday he was totally LAME just days after..... both front feet seemed uncomfortable he would rock all of his weight back onto his hind end and point his front toes. After determining that he was very uncomfortable on his feet I had shoes tacked back on. Well he still is very off. He wont trot undersaddle or in hand, he wants to canter and bobble around. I had the vet out.... she blocked him and we determined it was in fact his feet. My question is what in the world could have happened to make him completely uncomfortable/unsound all of the sudden? I used the same farrier, same trim job.

    Vet suggested to have his toe cut shorter and add a bit of a wedge shoe for a different angle... well, same story. Still off! Vet is coming out again to do xrays soon, so hopefully we can generate some answers but this is killing me.
    Last edited by WARDen; Oct. 10, 2012 at 09:05 AM.
    Tinker Toy & Blue Bonnett



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2009
    Location
    south eastern US
    Posts
    2,541

    Default

    Perhaps the farrier trimmed him a little short. I used to have a farrier that did that. You can try putting some boots on him. I found that that made my horse much more comfortable while he recovered.
    Sending Jingles that your guy recovers.
    "My biggest fear is that when I die my husband is going to try to sell all my horses and tack for what I told him they cost."



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2006
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    10,989

    Default

    Could be laminitis.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    4,178

    Default

    Was he foot sore "right" after the trim or before?

    If he walked up fine for the trim and off after then that should be the answer. Even with shoes if too much was taken off it will still hurt. But without photos or seeing the horse it's hard to tell.

    Also, without xrays you might not know much either.

    I had horses diagnosed with navicular that seemed to happen over night. They have had it for years but something just triggered lameness and I still have no idea what.

    This sounds weird to me because the vet or farrier should have been able to determine if the horse was just "foot sore" from the trim. If not, it's something else and why xrays weren't done would be the question I would ask.
    "The horse should pay attention to two things only: the rider’s aids and his own self-preservation at the jump—not the environment. ~ GM



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2010
    Location
    minnesota
    Posts
    160

    Default

    Sounds like possible laminitis or farrier trimmed him to short that will make them pretty sore. Had a farrier who trimmed my horse to short and he was just as sore as you boy.

    I used hoof boots till he grew out some hoof only had the boots on him for part of the day. I did the xrays and nothing was wrong only too much hoof was taken off.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2007
    Location
    Beside Myself ~ Western NY
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    9,210

    Default

    I'd assume it was laminitis and hope it was just a short trim.

    Don't let the timing of the trim distract you from other possible problems.
    People are crazy and times are strange.
    I used to care but, things have changed.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    17,097

    Default

    If sole was pared out, that would make any horse sore since there's no more callous and a thinned sole.

    Get neoprene garden kneeling pads from Wal-Mart and cut 'em to fit. Tape on with duct tape to provide comfort.
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    12,247

    Exclamation

    Radiographs will clarify the problem. Perhaps too much grass, grain, for too little work = laminitis. IN the meantime cut back starches and sugars. Limit grass.

    I know --that hurts. Ask me how I know!!

    Jingles! And keep us posted. I like being wrong-sometimes!
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2006
    Location
    east central Illinois and working north to the 'burbs
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    3,836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WARDen View Post
    Vet suggested to have his toe cut shorter and add a bit of a wedge shoe for a different angle...
    Did the vet use hooftesters? If so, where on the sole was the horse reactive?

    Regardless, advising you to have the foot trimmed shorter seems to me to be sheer lunacy especially when coupled with raising the angles which will concentrate even more pressure in the area of the toe.

    If the shoes were not deep seated on the inner web of the foot surface of the shoe, then the shoes themselves may well be adding to the problem.

    If the horse was not hoof tested to see precisely where the soreness is located, than that is your first step. In point of fact, if the farrier didn't do that prior to applying the shoes, then, IMO, his 'give-a-damn' is in serious need of repair.

    I suggest you get some Durasole and start using it several times a day for the near future. It may also be prudent to pull the shoes, add a rim pad cut to half the width of the shoe, deep seat the shoes and re-apply them. If the lameness persists without improvement in the next few days, some radiographs are indicated.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 7, 2012
    Posts
    119

    Default

    To give a bit more information...

    End of July:
    This has taken place since the end of July. He was trimmed on a Thursday, noticably tender the entire weekend and pointing both of his toes at different times. We figured he was just footsore so painted his feet with some toughening stuff for two weeks and that did not help. THEN we slapped the shoes back on and he is still the same lame up front. Gave it another week and he was still uneven and not wanting to trot undersaddle.

    End of August:
    So by now its the end of August and the vet came out to check and through lunging, watching him go undersaddle she determined it was his def his front end. She used the hoof testers and he could not care less about them. Didnt BUDGE! The vet ended up blocking him and after he was blocked in both front feet he trotted off almost 100% sound. After knowing that this is a foot problem and to avoid xrays initially bc funds are lacking she said to bute him up and see how he is and then watch him as he comes off of bute. So for a week he got 1gm twice a day then did a few days on just one gram. He was more comfortable but definitely not near 100%. After coming off the bute he is back to being off.

    End of Sept:
    Vet comes for x-rays this week. Sigh.
    Tinker Toy & Blue Bonnett



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2011
    Location
    Southern WI
    Posts
    311

    Default

    Did the vet block the whole foot or in sections from the back part of the foot working up to the whole hoof? Why did the vet suggest a wedge? Did he/she explain beyond giving the hoof a different angle?



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2007
    Location
    California
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    4,178

    Default

    My thoughts are Navicular.

    However, saying that, without xrays you will not know for sure. But toe pointing often indicates heel pain. And really that is navicular. There are ways to say it; I believe they call it Navicular Syndrome Navicular Disease Caudal Heel Syndrome.
    "The horse should pay attention to two things only: the rider’s aids and his own self-preservation at the jump—not the environment. ~ GM



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2009
    Posts
    23

    Default

    it sounds like he may have Supporting Limb Laminitis, which happens due to bearing more weight on the front legs while he rests his hind leg injury. Does he have strong digital pulses in his front legs?heat in his hooves?any bruising on his soles when he was trimmed?
    If so you can treat his laminitis with herbs,magnetic bell boots,ice boots, etc.
    Pm me if you would like more info on alternative products.You don't want to let it go too long untreated.

    Best of Luck.
    www.equinealternativehealthsupply.com
    Natural Horse Health Care, including Holistic Equine Health Products, Supplements & Alternative Therapies.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 21, 2009
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    1,871

    Default

    My thought is metabolic laminitis. In laminitis caused by metabolic issues, the horses often do NOT exhibit the classic hoof tester reactions to as horses with other kinds of laminitis. Especially if the bone is not rotating but rather slowly sinking. He could have been right on the verge of developing it anyway and the regular trim may have just set it off. (then the poor farrier gets blamed)I have a hunch if the vet prescribed more toe trimming that the vet may be seeing a "forward stretched" toe, not a long toe and not understanding the difference.
    The Xrays, IF taken correctly, will be revealing.

    How old is this horse? (teenage and older are susceptable to metabolic issues)
    What BREED? (certain breeds are particularly susceptable)
    IS HE CRESTY NECKED?(even of not fat)
    WHAT DIET?
    Patty Stiller CNBBT,CNBF,CLS, CE
    Natural Balance Certified Lameness Specialist ,instructor.
    www.hoofcareonline.com



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    13,226

    Default

    I'm with Patty.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug. 28, 2006
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    10,989

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patty Stiller View Post
    My thought is metabolic laminitis. In laminitis caused by metabolic issues, the horses often do NOT exhibit the classic hoof tester reactions to as horses with other kinds of laminitis. Especially if the bone is not rotating but rather slowly sinking. He could have been right on the verge of developing it anyway and the regular trim may have just set it off. (then the poor farrier gets blamed)I have a hunch if the vet prescribed more toe trimming that the vet may be seeing a "forward stretched" toe, not a long toe and not understanding the difference.
    The Xrays, IF taken correctly, will be revealing.

    How old is this horse? (teenage and older are susceptable to metabolic issues)
    What BREED? (certain breeds are particularly susceptable)
    IS HE CRESTY NECKED?(even of not fat)
    WHAT DIET?
    Why would horses with metabolic issues not react to hoof testers, and roughly what percentage would you say do not?



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2004
    Location
    AZ
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    2,610

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    Why would horses with metabolic issues not react to hoof testers, and roughly what percentage would you say do not?
    Not Patty, but here's my opinion.

    This is a common observation from hoof care providers and vets experienced with metabolic laminitis. No data has been compiled, so no one can provide you with numbers.

    I've discussed it with several experts and here's what seems a reasonable explanation. Compared to other causes of laminitis, metabolic cases involve the whole foot, often all 4 feet, where other forms seem to involve mostly detachment in the toe area. Hence other forms tend to react from hoof testers in the area under P3 indicating the start of rotation. Laminitis can happen without rotation in early stages, and even with really bad metabolic laminitis they can sink straight now with minimal rotation. We think horses with metabolic laminitis hurt all over their feet so no one spot hurts more, hence they don't react.



  18. #18
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    Aug. 28, 2006
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    Default

    Thanks Katy. Wierd though, if the horse's foot was sore all over wouldn't you think the horse would react all over the foot? I was curious about that because my pony (who foundered a year ago with a few degrees of rotation and has since recovered), was reactive to hoof testers at the toe on the fronts and I'm convinced she's IR. But it's good to know this for the future.
    Last edited by grayarabpony; Sep. 29, 2012 at 12:12 PM.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar. 7, 2012
    Posts
    119

    Default UPDATE

    Pulled his shoes for x-rays this weekend and took PLENTY of them from all angles. The x-rays show nothing significant what-so-ever. Blocked him again in the foot and he trotted off sound. We went ahead and injected the coffin in both feet and we will see if that helps in the next few days.

    This vet is extremely sought after in our area and has always been amazing with diagnosing issues so I trust her completely. Hopefully this helps. This vet visit alone was $600 and I really cant afford to do anything else for him at this point. If this does not help I will put him in a pasture and not mess with him for a few months. Im crossing my fingers big time, he is such an awesome horse and when I did a prepurchase on him 1 1/2 years ago he passed with flying colors.

    ugh.
    Tinker Toy & Blue Bonnett



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2006
    Location
    east central Illinois and working north to the 'burbs
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    3,836

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Katy Watts View Post
    . Compared to other causes of laminitis,.....
    Hi Katy,
    Couple of questions/thoughts. If the laminitis is not metabolic in nature and its not mechanical in nature, what other causes are there? Are you including in your definition of laminitis, rotation, sinking and/or both? If so, that is not my understanding of the term.
    metabolic cases involve the whole foot, often all 4 feet, where other forms seem to involve mostly detachment in the toe area.
    Again, what other forms? Also, I have seen, heard, read about, treated, laminar disinterdigitation in the area of the toe or from medial toe quarter to lateral toe quarter that resulted in rotation/sinking/both but not necessarily in all four hooves, with front hooves being the more prevalent.
    Hence other forms tend to react from hoof testers in the area under P3 indicating the start of rotation.
    Or, sinking. Or, both. Any of which are to me, definitions of Founder, ie: a horse can experience laminitis without foundering, while a horse who is foundering will always experience laminitis first, even if only briefly as may be the case with a mechanical insult.
    Laminitis can happen without rotation in early stages,
    Indeed! As noted, laminitis without rotation or sinking is, well, laminitis(inflammation of the laminae). Laminitis with sinking or rotation or both, is founder(from the naval term for 'sinking')

    and even with really bad metabolic laminitis they can sink straight now with minimal rotation.
    By definition, a classic definition of Founder.........
    We think horses with metabolic laminitis hurt all over their feet so no one spot hurts more, hence they don't react.
    I think we are separated by our language in common/common language.



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