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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 17, 2004
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    SC
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    554

    Default Long story: crazy lady, an unsolicited breeding with a mustang, and lame horses

    A long story involving a crazy lady, an unsolicited breeding with a mustang, and a pasture full of lame horses
    This is as much a vent as an open forum for thoughts and advice. I have had a heck of a summer with my horses! I was keeping my horses at a beautiful farm down the road from my house when it sold to a new owner. At first this seemed like a good thing, but then it turned out to be very unstable. The new owner was a MD that had owned one pony when she was very young. She had bought 13 horses and 2 donkeys by the time she moved into her new farm, some broke, some not at all. She was an extreme beginner, both at horse care and at riding, and boy did the horse sellers and tack stores see her coming. They sold her everything in sight. I tried to help her as much as I could, and cleaned out my trailer setting up my tack for her horses (she was not sold anything useful, for instance one store sold her a box full of bradoon bits for double bridles), but I had plenty of tack and didn’t mind sharing (when I moved the horses, this bit me in the A** when they accused me of stealing my own tack). A lot of my stuff ended up broken since she would do things like tie a horse by its reins, or just drop the reins and let the horse step on them, etc.…

    She was extremely impulsive; she invited every stranger she met on the street out to the barn to ride, pet horses, etc. She had no concept of safety, and let them all ride, and she was not a believer in helmets, this summer I watched as she put a 5yo boy with cerebral palsy and his 4yo sister both riding double bareback on the 5yo OTTB. I was very worried about liability as well as safety, since she told everyone I was her trainer, but then wouldn’t listen to a thing I said.

    We finally had a falling out soon after, when I told her a new horse she had gotten from someone was psycho after we watched her run straight through a five rail pasture fence and chase down and corner her donkey and try to kick it to death. Me and my sister rescued the donkey, stalled the mare, and when we called the BO and told her she told me I “didn’t know anything about horses unless I was riding” (I have over 23yrs experience including working at barns, as a BM, groom for Olympic rider, riding professionally, and teaching), and she had spent the morning stroking the mares nose and she knew that she was actually a sweet horse (the mare later went on to run straight through the pasture fencing six more times this summer attacking various horses before they sent her back).

    Me and my sister set out to move our horses by the end of the summer. We found a beautiful 50 acre pasture with an old eight stall barn and old arena at a plantation house in the area owned by a friend of a friend. We worked out a rate with the owner to lease the pasture, barn, etc... after he fixed up the fences. A week before we are supposed to move my horses, she suddenly moves all her horses out of my horses pasture (for the first time ever), and I get a call that day while at a wedding an hour away that my horses are loose on the busy Hwy. HEART ATTACK! Fortunately my sisters and the neighbors saved them. We end up finding a gate open that has never been used before, and is in the woods on the far edge of the property. A week later we moved my two mares and two geldings in. This was last week.

    At first everything seemed great. However, it turned out that the back of the property there was a neighbor with horses, and this portion of fence was barbed wire. Their pasture was surrounded by all wire, and what looks like the occasional wood pallet, was all dirt, etc.. I checked all the fences though, and tied streamers etc... My horses had been in wire fenced pastures before, so I was not too concerned. A few days in I come out and do a horse check and find one of my mares and a little 14ish hand bay horse off together, and I can’t find my other three horses. I am concerned and it is a big place, including 10 acres of forest which for some reason my horses love exploring, so I go to the neighbor’s house to let her know about her horse and look for mine. I tell her he has run off with my mare, and she tells me that he was a mustang and he jumped the fence and escaped the previous night, her husband would move him later that evening. Not ideal, but ok I go looking for my horses and find them and hour later covered in kicks and bites hiding in the far corner of the woods. Meanwhile little bay horse has my mare (who is usually boss) and is acting possessive of her. Strange...but it never occurs to me that he might not be a gelding; he is turned out with three other horses with a very shoddy wire fence

    Two days later he is out there again with my mare, and my other horses are covered in sweat and more bit marks. My sister is dealing with the neighbor this time, since I am down the road teaching lessons. Neighbor again says that he jumped the fence the night before, and her husband would move him that evening when he got home from work. She asks the neighbor if he is gelded, and it turns out he is not. My sister tells the neighbor that she needs to come catch the stallion NOW. They get in a fight; the neighbor refuses, and says that it is our fault for having a mare in season. (NOTE: she never once mentioned he was a stallion when I told her he ran off with my mare). My sister tells her if she doesn’t catch him now, she is calling animal control, and proceeds to call them.

    A cop comes out, makes them catch the stallion, and makes them promise to raise/fix their fencing (they went halfway down the shared fence line that evening, and haven’t gone further since. Their horses have been kept isolated though). The owner admits that he is quite sure the stallion has been breeding my mare, and that he actually saw it (fortunately my other mare is only just coming into season so I don’t think she was bred). The cop tells my sister that we should take any vet bills to the local magistrate, but warns us that if my mare has a foal that the neighbors will probably try to claim it.

    From all of the fighting, breeding, and running around my horses all are covered in cuts and scabs:
    1. Mare that was bred is lame (I am hoping that she is only sore from being bred, but I have no experience with this so would appreciate feedback), and possibly/probably pregnant
    2. Mare #2 is 6yo with an old torn muscle from when she was 4yo and when I got her last spring was a little short with that leg, we had worked on hills and stretching, and she was better. She is now lame and very short with that leg and I am afraid she did it again.
    3. My 7yo gelding has an extremely swollen front leg, that I am afraid is a bow.
    4. Gelding #2 is sound with a swollen cut up hind leg
    I have not called the vet out yet (I tend to go with the wait and see approach since money is tight). Thoughts? Suggestions? Should I try to get them to cover vet expenses? (They do not look like they have any money).
    Last edited by MTshowjumper; Oct. 9, 2012 at 03:01 PM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    17,030

    Default

    Nope, don't not to wait on the Vet. You want a full exam, everything documented VERY well and then given the right drug to abort the possible foal(s).

    Regardless of what the neighbors do, I'd bring the fence line in a bit from theirs and raise it--high!
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2004
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    4,232

    Default

    I am pretty sure my brain is bleeding because I know my eyes are......


    You could abort the foal. Seems like if all isn't better in a day or two a vet may be needed. Sorry that is all the advice I can come up with right now
    *^*^*^
    Himmlische Traumpferde
    "Wenn Du denkst es geht nicht mehr, kommt von irgendwo ein kleines Licht daher"



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2007
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    96

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MTshowjumper View Post
    A long story involving a crazy lady, an unsolicited breeding with a mustang, and a pasture full of lame horses
    This is as much a vent as an open forum for thoughts and advice. I have had a heck of a summer with my horses! I was keeping my horses at a beautiful farm down the road from my house when it sold to a new owner. At first this seemed like a good thing, but then it turned out to be very unstable. The new owner was a MD that had owned one pony when she was very young. She had bought 13 horses and 2 donkeys by the time she moved into her new farm, some broke, some not at all. She was an extreme beginner, both at horse care and at riding, and boy did the horse sellers and tack stores see her coming. They sold her everything in sight. I tried to help her as much as I could, and cleaned out my trailer setting up my tack for her horses (she was not sold anything useful, for instance one store sold her a box full of bradoon bits for double bridles), but I had plenty of tack and didn’t mind sharing (when I moved the horses, this bit me in the A** when they accused me of stealing my own tack). A lot of my stuff ended up broken since she would do things like tie a horse by its reins, or just drop the reins and let the horse step on them, etc.…

    She was extremely impulsive; she invited every stranger she met on the street out to the barn to ride, pet horses, etc. She had no concept of safety, and let them all ride, and she was not a believer in helmets, this summer I watched as she put a 5yo boy with cerebral palsy and his 4yo sister both riding double bareback on the 5yo OTTB. I was very worried about liability as well as safety, since she told everyone I was her trainer, but then wouldn’t listen to a thing I said.

    We finally had a falling out soon after, when I told her a new horse she had gotten from someone was psycho after we watched her run straight through a five rail pasture fence and chase down and corner her donkey and try to kick it to death. Me and my sister rescued the donkey, stalled the mare, and when we called the BO and told her she told me I “didn’t know anything about horses unless I was riding” (I have over 23yrs experience including working at barns, as a BM, groom for Olympic rider, riding professionally, and teaching), and she had spent the morning stroking the mares nose and she knew that she was actually a sweet horse (the mare later went on to run straight through the pasture fencing six more times this summer attacking various horses before they sent her back).

    Me and my sister set out to move our horses by the end of the summer. We found a beautiful 50 acre pasture with an old eight stall barn and old arena at a plantation house in the area owned by a friend of a friend. We worked out a rate with the owner to lease the pasture, barn, etc... after he fixed up the fences. A week before we are supposed to move my horses, she suddenly moves all her horses out of my horses pasture (for the first time ever), and I get a call that day while at a wedding an hour away that my horses are loose on the busy Hwy. HEART ATTACK! Fortunately my sisters and the neighbors saved them. We end up finding a gate open that has never been used before, and is in the woods on the far edge of the property. A week later we moved my two mares and two geldings in. This was last week.

    At first everything seemed great. However, it turned out that the back of the property there was a neighbor with horses, and this portion of fence was barbed wire. Their pasture was surrounded by all wire, and what looks like the occasional wood pallet, was all dirt, etc.. I checked all the fences though, and tied streamers etc... My horses had been in wire fenced pastures before, so I was not too concerned. A few days in I come out and do a horse check and find one of my mares and a little 14ish hand bay horse off together, and I can’t find my other three horses. I am concerned and it is a big place, including 10 acres of forest which for some reason my horses love exploring, so I go to the neighbor’s house to let her know about her horse and look for mine. I tell her he has run off with my mare, and she tells me that he was a mustang and he jumped the fence and escaped the previous night, her husband would move him later that evening. Not ideal, but ok I go looking for my horses and find them and hour later covered in kicks and bites hiding in the far corner of the woods. Meanwhile little bay horse has my mare (who is usually boss) and is acting possessive of her. Strange...but it never occurs to me that he might not be a gelding; he is turned out with three other horses with a very shoddy wire fence

    Two days later he is out there again with my mare, and my other horses are covered in sweat and more bit marks. My sister is dealing with the neighbor this time, since I am down the road teaching lessons. Neighbor again says that he jumped the fence the night before, and her husband would move him that evening when he got home from work. She asks the neighbor if he is gelded, and it turns out he is not. My sister tells the neighbor that she needs to come catch the stallion NOW. They get in a fight; the neighbor refuses, and says that it is our fault for having a mare in season. (NOTE: she never once mentioned he was a stallion when I told her he ran off with my mare). My sister tells her if she doesn’t catch him now, she is calling animal control, and proceeds to call them.

    A cop comes out, makes them catch the stallion, and makes them promise to raise/fix their fencing (they went halfway down the shared fence line that evening, and haven’t gone further since. Their horses have been kept isolated though). The owner admits that he is quite sure the stallion has been breeding my mare, and that he actually saw it (fortunately my other mare is only just coming into season so I don’t think she was bred). The cop tells my sister that we should take any vet bills to the local magistrate, but warns us that if my mare has a foal that the neighbors will probably try to claim it.

    From all of the fighting, breeding, and running around my horses all are covered in cuts and scabs:
    1. Mare that was bred is lame (I am hoping that she is only sore from being bred, but I have no experience with this so would appreciate feedback), and possibly/probably pregnant
    2. Mare #2 is 6yo with an old torn muscle from when she was 4yo and when I got her last spring was a little short with that leg, we had worked on hills and stretching, and she was better. She is now lame and very short with that leg and I am afraid she did it again.
    3. My 7yo gelding has an extremely swollen front leg, that I am afraid is a bow.
    4. Gelding #2 is sound with a swollen cut up hind leg
    I have not called the vet out yet (I tend to go with the wait and see approach since money is tight). Thoughts? Suggestions? Should I try to get them to cover vet expenses? (They do not look like they have any money).
    Wow.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 8, 2007
    Posts
    1,510

    Default

    Somebody got jealous of all the attention CCH has gotten and decided to get some herself.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2005
    Location
    Sweet, sweet Virginia!
    Posts
    1,786

    Default

    I definitely agree with Chocomare on the vet, the documentation, the foal abortion, everything.

    And, honestly, I think I'd be seriously considering a rifle, too. Or at least looking into the laws about livestock attacks. He may not be a dog, but he is loose (not staying home) and attacking your animals.

    I'd be livid and you have my sympathy.
    "Radar, the man's ex-cavalry: if he sees four flies having a meeting, he knows they're talking about a horse!" Cptn. BJ Hunnicutt, M*A*S*H Season 4, Episode "Dear Mildred"



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2007
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
    Posts
    6,490

    Default Yes - CALL THE VET!

    I would get a vet out to abort the foal ASAP! And check the other mare for pregnancy as well. If money is tight now – a foal will only add to that burden.

    Document everything, most vets will take payment plans, but get that pregnancy taken care of now…. Really you do not need some mutt colts next year.
    APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman



  8. #8
    Join Date
    May. 28, 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    3,645

    Default

    Don't really have any advice for the current situation (poor ponies, jingling they all heal up well) other than what others have said...photograph and document asap before the wounds do start to heal. I know that vets are pricey, but better some large bills than a possible nasty injury that's left untreated.

    Not saying you can't treat things yourself, but there might be something worse internally that you can't see. Had an absolute HORROR story years ago at the breeding farm I worked/lived at. Pasture-bred a mare and stallion. Apparently the mare had never been live covered, because she was terrified of the stud. Long story short, she beat him up, wouldn't let him near her, stud ended up with several broken ribs, one of which punctured a lung. Was DAYSs before a real vet saw the horse ( I don't count the idiot vet that saw him first). Stallion didn't make it.

    As for prevention in the future- had a random thought. The stallion is a mustang. Do you know where they got him/if he was a BLM horse? I know they have pretty strict rules about adopting wild ones out, ie fence height and integrity, turnout, etc...maybe if they aren't following the rules, the law can force them to do something about it (fix the fence, geld the horse, get rid of the horse?). Will the owner of your current field pay to put up a second fence on your side to ensure the stallion won't come back?



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2008
    Location
    Middle USA
    Posts
    2,404

    Default

    Put up electric fencing on your side 5 or 6 strands high and make it well back from the existing fence so your horses have no contact with the neighbors horses. I imagine the stallion got in and drove all your other horses away from "his mare". They just kept coming back, not understanding what was going on which explains the soreness and cuts. They were not attacked by an insane horse, the stallion was just doing what comes naturally to him. If the fence was in that bad a shape I am afraid the fault is shared and the fixing of the fence should be shared also. It could have just as easily been your horses in their pasture.

    We had a neighbor who we shared a fence line with. He had a bull who ran through and damaged a large section. Under the law we would have both been responsible to fix it. Since we had no animals on our side( just hay for us) he had to fix the whole thing.

    If you aren't wanting the possibility of a foal you will need a vet. Depending on the breed and quality of your mare and quality of the stallion they might make a nice cross.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2008
    Location
    Middle USA
    Posts
    2,404

    Default

    [QUOTE=talkofthetown;6599176)

    As for prevention in the future- had a random thought. The stallion is a mustang. Do you know where they got him/if he was a BLM horse? I know they have pretty strict rules about adopting ?[/QUOTE]

    I am 100% sure they geld every single male that is up for adoption from weanling on up, if he was from a BLM roundup.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2002
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    11,923

    Default

    Your story is crazy and full of holes and I certainly hope that you move your horses to a boarding barn and come across less drama.

    I have no idea why you would want to spend the entire summer at the first place.

    The BLM does not adopt out stallions, and I have no idea how you didnt realize it was a stallion.

    I also have no idea why you wouldn't call the vet out.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2006
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    Sno County
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    3,928

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    They only geld if the owner requests it and it's on the owner/adopter's dime. The BLM will either have their vet do it on their (BLM) property or the owner can have it done by their vet once you get it home.

    As far as fencing, if the mustang owner has had the horse for over a year, he can use whatever type of fencing he wants as the horse is no longer the property of the BLM but of the adopter. However, to be approved to adopt the potential adopter must have a small (20x20) area with minimum 5-1/2' fencing for horses under 18 months and minimum 6-8 foot for horses over 18 months.
    Yogurt - If you're so cultured, how come I never see you at the opera? Steven Colbert



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
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    13,993

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    I am not sure why calling the vet is a wait and see if even half that is true.

    Get the vet out now. You most certainly do not want your mare to have a foal, do you?



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov. 17, 2004
    Location
    SC
    Posts
    554

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    Quote Originally Posted by enjoytheride View Post
    Your story is crazy and full of holes and I certainly hope that you move your horses to a boarding barn and come across less drama.

    I have no idea why you would want to spend the entire summer at the first place.

    The BLM does not adopt out stallions, and I have no idea how you didnt realize it was a stallion.

    I also have no idea why you wouldn't call the vet out.
    I live in the middle of nowhere. The closest boarding barn is well over an hour away. I moved here for work, and am now in grad school . I had to keep quite and spend the summer at the other barn because there was nowhere else to go until the fences where up at the new place, and I am living on student loan checks and money from teaching lessons so can not afford the vet unless it is a dire emergency until I get my loan check this week. Especially after having to pay to lease the new place.

    As for the stallion. He is out of their mare (who could be BLM), and who is turned out with him. When I found them he would not let me near him, and he didn't exactly have giant stallion "accessories".

    As for my story being "full of holes", I kinda thought my post was too long to begin with so I tried to have mercy on you all and edit some out! I don't want to write a book.
    Last edited by MTshowjumper; Oct. 9, 2012 at 04:31 PM.



  15. #15
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    May. 28, 2006
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    Florida
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    Default

    Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 17, 2004
    Location
    SC
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    If the fence was in that bad a shape I am afraid the fault is shared and the fixing of the fence should be shared also. It could have just as easily been your horses in their pasture.

    We had a neighbor who we shared a fence line with. He had a bull who ran through and damaged a large section. Under the law we would have both been responsible to fix it. Since we had no animals on our side( just hay for us) he had to fix the whole thing.

    If you aren't wanting the possibility of a foal you will need a vet. Depending on the breed and quality of your mare and quality of the stallion they might make a nice cross.
    The fence between them is ok structurally. It was part of the fence redone by the property owner for me to move in. It is the rest of the neighbors fence that is falling down. Also the fence was only normal height, and the stallion just jumped it. The neighbor told me that he has jumped out many times and ended up on the road in front of their house.

    I do want to add a second fence between them now, and am in talks with the property owner.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2011
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,233

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    Quote Originally Posted by MTshowjumper View Post
    ... I am living on student loan checks and money from teaching lessons so can not afford the vet unless it is a dire emergency until I get my loan check this week. Especially after having to paying to lease the new place.
    I'm sorry for your situation, it sounds terrible, but I have to say, if you are living on student loan checks and cant afford vet care you really ought not to have 4 horses.
    Barn rat for life

    The Big Horse



  18. #18
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    Mar. 11, 2004
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    Souderton, PA
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    I just don't understand how people have animals without having the necessary back-up funds for vet attention when/if needed.
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  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2008
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    The Beach, Maryland
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    So he's still in with their mare, so he could now be possibly breeding back to her as well?

    Oh man the ass-hattery here is astounding.

    I 3rd (5th?) the electric fence option. If you can't afford that, then you need to find another pasture to let them out in, that isn't anywhere near the stallion's until you can get adequate fencing up.

    See if your vet can take payments, document (pictures) all of the wounds and get the possibly foal aborted ASAP. You will have more cost if she is pregnant, than getting rid of it now.
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  20. #20
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    Jun. 18, 2011
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    1,407

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    The BLM isn't going to do jack about the fencing most likely.

    However many areas have zoning requirements regarding stallions and fencing. There is where you might be able to give her a kick in pants concerning getting that fence fixed. Call your local zoning department and find out.

    While you're at it, call the vet too. Get the injuries documented and treated and for gawds sake if you don't want an oopsie foal get your mare a Lute shot. It'll be on the neighbor's dime but if you drag your feet too long it'll just make it harder to prove she was in the wrong.

    Procrastination played a big part in this scenario, and more procrastination is just going to make it harder to rectify things. Time for you to take the bull by the horns and get those horses taken care of!



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