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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 30, 2007
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    Default Tying up

    My horse "tyed up" yesterday. She used to tye up at the track and in the four years I have had her, it's happened a few times but not on any regular basis. She was off for two days (lives in a large paddock big enough for her to canter/buck) and I turned her out in the arena to play which she did for about 10 minutes before she tyed up. I normally turn her out in the arena before riding it is part of her normal routine- though yesterday she was pretty exuberant and was playing pretty hard. The vet came out and gave her Banamine, a shot of Vitamin E/Selenium, and a sedative. She seemed to be feeling better after that. She also took some blood and will re check blood in two weeks. She recommends switching to grass hay (my horse hates grass hay but she won't have a choice). Before she was getting 1/2 alfalfa and 1/2 oat hay. She also gets equine senior, beet pulp, platinum performance, and omega horse shine on days that I ride. The vet feels she is at a good weight. She used to get Ultium but after a tying up incident about 18 months ago the vet said to discontinue that unless it is a day she is really working hard. She normally gets ridden 4-6 days per week but last week was a lighter week (due to my stupid job). I'm going to try to get her ridden more consistently and will go to lunging her before turning her out so she warms up before she plays. Vet is recommending two weeks off (just hand walking) before returning to work so muscles recover. At any rate can anyone offer any other advice for managing this problem?



  2. #2
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    Default

    Although not all horses that tie up have EPSM, it is a factor in some of them, somewhat less than fully understood but certainly something we know a lot more about today than we did even 10 years ago. Probably worth reading up on.

    The idea of eliminating grain on days when a horse isn't working is archaic but probably makes good sense. In the old days tying up/azoturia was, of course, called "Monday morning sickness" since it happened to horses on a Monday who'd been idle on Sunday but continued to get their full feed. This was in the days when horses actually WORKED HARD, so the difference between a full day's work and a day standing around idle was a lot more marked than it is nowadays when horses might work an hour a day and be considered in "hard work".

    The dietary management of a horse that ties up is complex, and I'd avail myself of some good veterinary book chapters on the disease and the recommendations rather than getting a bunch of advice on the internet.

    Worth checking selenium levels, for sure.

    Finally, and I'm not entirely certain this doesn't belong in the "conventional wisdom" bucket with a lot of other stuff that is just no longer true, I have heard (take that for what it's worth) that mares are slightly more prone to a tie-up in the fall when they're going through one of their transitional heat cycles. It did happen to me during a CCI*--mare was in heat, weather was cold and wet, and she tied up on phase C.

    Anyhow, good luck. Lots of old-fashioned advice on this topic, some of which needs careful sifting in light of modern knowledge and your individual animal, including the story I told you about my mare.
    Last edited by deltawave; Oct. 8, 2012 at 09:03 AM.
    Click here before you buy.



  3. #3
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    Mar. 15, 2012
    Location
    Taft, TN
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    Default

    I know what worked for my gelding who, admittedly, did not have full-blown cases of tying up but more muscle-cramping incidents, was putting him on electrolytes. He just tended to not drink enough BEFORE he went out and exercised. We also of course put him on low starch feed- I used Nutrena Safe Choice for years, with Empower and/or alfalfa hay added when that wasn't enough to keep weight on him.



  4. #4
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    Apr. 1, 2005
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    Georgetown, KY
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    I don't know what your weather has been doing, but if my gelding ties up, it is when there is some type of major temperature change. He tied up (along with a friend's horse) at River Glen this spring (much cooler there than it had been here) and will tie up if worked hard/ gets quite sweaty on those random warm days in the winter/ cool days in the summer. I've switched to a high-fat, low-starch feed which is both good for his ulcery-prone self and for the tying. I also use electrolytes. He has only tied up maybe 4 times in the past 5 years, but it has always been when we have a temperature shift (is 50 here today whereas it was 75 on Friday- gotta be careful!).
    Last edited by FoxChaser; Oct. 7, 2012 at 06:22 PM.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 26, 2003
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    Default

    There are a couple of equine vets who have done probably the majority of the research and public info on "tying Up" and forms of EPSM

    Dr. Beth Valentine out of Oregon State Univ

    http://www.ruralheritage.com/vet_clinic/index.htm

    and Dr. Valberg out of Univ Minn.

    http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/

    both of these sites have links to various information about EPSM and the different versions. In some of them they talk of TB mares having a different variety of tying. There is also a difference in causes...some are glycogen ("body stored sugar) storage and another is related to the biochemical pathways in which muscles operate (having to do with the calcium channels I believe). anyway, lots of good info out there from the 2 big experts in the field. You can also just google EPSM. Dr. Valentine also reads muscle biopsies sent to her.



  6. #6
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    Sep. 30, 2007
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    Default

    Thanks for all the responses so far and any more that might arrive. It appears that there are numerous feed supplements for horses prone to tying up. I don't know if it's worth it to feed anything like that- I'll talk to my vet about it. On smartpak I searched "tying up" and there were about 6 different supplements- some of them quite pricey. She really doesn't do this that often but it sure sucks when it happens.



  7. #7
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    Sep. 25, 2006
    Location
    Southeastern CT
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    68

    Default Tying up

    After My off track Stb tyed up at the recommendation of my vet and specialist at Smart Pak he gets E, Se, Mag (vitamin E, Selenium and Magnesium) and electrolytes daily. 24/7 turnout is great also



  8. #8
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    Jun. 22, 2001
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    Coatesville, Pa.
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    Both at the track and with the foxhunters, we had a lot of luck with One AC

    That and some beer. :-)

    Emily
    "Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all." ~2001 The Princess Diaries



  9. #9
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    Nov. 15, 1999
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    Middleburg VA and Southampton NY
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    I am quite experienced at managing a horse that ties up, and I detailed the protocols that have worked well for me in this blog:

    http://chronicleofmyhorse.ning.com/p...manage-a-horse

    The two components that are key to managing a horse that ties up are 1) providing nutritional support through offering a high fat diet and 2) managing exercise levels so that all the horse's exertion is accounted for.

    Read the blog on the link above, and click the links below to learn more about the nutritional requirements of horses that tie up for whatever reason (PSSM, RER, EPSM).



  10. #10
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    Default

    All the advice people took the trouble to type and the first thing you want to do is buy a supplement? Oy. The industry wins. I give up.
    Click here before you buy.



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by deltawave View Post
    All the advice people took the trouble to type and the first thing you want to do is buy a supplement? Oy. The industry wins. I give up.
    Not the first thing I want to do. I am just trying to consider all of the options and what I can do to help my wonderful girl to be happy and healthy.



  12. #12
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    Jan. 24, 2004
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    Sergeantsville, NJ
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    Default

    Generally, tying up is a "horse management" problem. As others have said, often (very) related to EPSM. My daughter's EPSM horse was going Intermediate with a managed diet. Don't throw a supplement at a problem in the hopes of a quick fix.



  13. #13
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    May. 16, 2003
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    Really sorry that you're dealing with this. Seeing your horse tie up is awful.

    There is a ton of stuff to read out there, and a million different theories even from reputable people. When I was researching, I only found two constants: first, you have to experiment to see what works for the horse; and two, e & selenium if you're in an area deficient in se.

    Good luck.



  14. #14
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    Sep. 28, 2010
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    wrong part of VA
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    Default

    I've been managing a confirmed PSSM gelding for over 3 years now. There's numerous reasons for tying up so I'd first determine what the specific cause is. Once you determine the cause, you'll be able to pinpoint more specific management practices. Drs. Valentine and Valberg don't always agree with each other's recommendations (even though mine is not a draft, I had to go with Dr. Valentine's VERY high oil route), so you will have to sort out what's best for your particular horse and situation....but diagnosis was key for me.



  15. #15
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    Feb. 26, 2003
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    Ditto what WP said. a muscle biopsy by a vet who has done them before (actually a simple procedure) will tell you if they have EPSM and if there are certain other specifics involved. The high fat diet and NO GRAIN OR GRAIN BYPRODUCTS is essential. I can not even use the "low NSC" (non structural carbohydrate (ie sugars) "EPSM friendly" grain feeds....Healthy Edge Strategy etc. Even the ones OK'd by Dr. Valentine. Oil and alfalfa pellets (Dr. Valentine's cheaper recommendation) has worked for me and I have had my horse in a number of situations where he would have absolutely tied up in the past. I am in a E-Se deficient area so I supplement that also, but it is the high fat, NO GRAIN and daily exercise, no stalling that is vital for us. I don't do any other fancy supplements.



  16. #16
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    Jun. 30, 2006
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    SF Bay Area, California
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    Default

    The one time my TB tied up, we (my vet, nutritionist and I) attributed it to environmental reasons as in she just moved to an eventing training barn, was a bit stressed and not eating much and was worked much too hard too soon by the trainer. Fortunately the blood work showed it was a very mild case, even though it really scared me since I had never seen a horse tie up.

    I did make some changes to her diet based on the recommendations of the nutritionist and my horse has not had another incident in 3 years. The changes included adding a low starch grain, e & sel, but no fancy supplements.

    If she continued to tie up, I probably would have gone forward with a biopsy to test for PSSM.

    Here is an interesting chart showing a decision tree about which route to take for testing:

    http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/prod/gro.../cvm_88617.pdf
    Proud owner of a Slaughter-Bound TB from a feedlot, and her surprise baby...!
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  17. #17
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    Nov. 15, 1999
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    Middleburg VA and Southampton NY
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saskatoonian View Post
    Really sorry that you're dealing with this. Seeing your horse tie up is awful.

    There is a ton of stuff to read out there, and a million different theories even from reputable people. When I was researching, I only found two constants: first, you have to experiment to see what works for the horse; and two, e & selenium if you're in an area deficient in se.

    Good luck.
    The reality is that there are several different metabolic disorders that cause problems that exhibit themselves as generic "tying up" symptoms. Look at research by Dr. Stephanie Valberg (UMinn) and others associated with KER, along with the studies that demonstrate the effectiveness of a high fat/low starch diet in combatting these. Look at the Rural Heritage site if you want to go the DIY route, or just read about Dr. Beth Valentine's work in this field. Read my blog (see link above) for management tips that work.

    When I first started to delve into this topic almost 10 years ago, there WASN'T much information out there, and what there was was based on old wive's tales--this is NOT the case anymore. Now there is solid research and genetic analysis that can pinpoint exactly what genetic makeup is causing your horse's symptoms.

    Not everyone is prepared to take on the task of correctly managing this type of horse, and some settings are very poorly suited for keeping one in. But here is clear evidence that exercise regulation (meaning you control the amount as well as the duration of any exercise and keep it at a constant level) together with nutritional support (a balanced high fat/low starch diet) WILL enable the great majority of horses to work safely. How you approach these two critical issues will determine whether you are successful or not, but education is the key.



  18. #18
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    Feb. 26, 2003
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    M. O'Connor...
    I couldn't get your link to work without establishing a username that required a lot of personal info...any other way to read your blog?



  19. #19
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    Nov. 15, 1999
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    Sorry--I didn't realize it wasn't on an open forum.


    Recognize and Manage a Horse That Ties Up
    (© 2012 M. O'Connor, all rights reserved)

    Part I: Tying up, acute episode: What to look for? What to do?


    I have personal experience with this topic, as one of our horses is subject to RER episodes unless his exercise schedule is monitored closely, and his special nutritional requirements are met consistently. Throughout this process, I've relied on support from veterinary professionals and equine nutritional experts at Kentucky Equine Research (KER) in coming up with a successful protocol for his overall management. Thanks to careful exercise moderation and a strictly high fat/low starch diet, this horse hasn't experienced an episode of tying up in years. Since managing horses that tie up can be tricky, I welcome the opportunity to share the information I’ve gathered on the subject. The following measures are those I’ve found to be most helpful in dealing with acute instances of tying up.

    It's important to be able to recognize the symptoms, the earliest of which may not be immediately apparent. Once it is realized that a horse ties up, and particularly when an acute episode sets in, it's important to know what to do.

    The less obvious signs of tying up are easy to overlook, and can be misinterpreted as a training problem or a temperament issue--nervousness, crankiness, irritability, displeasure with work, can all be the first signs of an impending onset of one of the syndromes resulting in acute muscular distress that horsemen have labeled with the general term: tying up.

    If a horse has uncharacteristically developed any of these traits, or seems to have a Jekyl/Hyde personality where they manifest sporadically, be on the lookout for more severe and quite obvious indications that the horse is tying up: these include profuse sweating, obvious discomfort with movement that leads to balking, an uneven gait, and hardened muscle tone. A horse in such a state may produce darkened urine, an indication of metabolically damaged muscle tissue.

    When confronted with an "episode," whether mild or severe, the first thing to do is call the vet! Along with coming ASAP to draw blood in order to determine just how badly things are going at a cellular level, the vet can administer Banamine (for pain and inflammation), Robaxin (to relax those tight muscles), and a little Ace (to relax the mind).

    In the meantime, while waiting for the vet to arrive, I've had success with simply putting the horse in a small paddock with some water, and hay... There, he is free to move if he is able to and so inclined, and eat a bit if he feels like it. It’s my feeling that forcing them to move is not wise, but if they choose to do so, that's ok. Obviously, the horse is going to have to be moved from the arena where he was working to wherever it is that he lives, whether it be a paddock, a field, or a stall. But it's to be hoped that someone noticed something going awry soon enough so that the horse is still able to do this...I must point out that pushing a horse on a training issue, or trying to wear its temperament down with work, for example, running on the end of a longe line, or doing laps till the horse is overtired can lead to tying up, even in a horse that isn't predisposed to it. With a horse that has a known predisposition to tying up, working to the point of exhaustion may place the horse at extreme risk of an episode.

    If it’s suspected that the horse is beginning to tie up while working, I’d recommend dropping back to a walk. Continue walking until he is more or less cooled out. Once he's back at the barn or at the paddock, reassess his comfort level and ability to move. Again, getting the vet is important at this stage. Drinking is desirable, and if there are electrolytes in the water, that's good too. Paste electrolytes are indicated if there are any on hand (it's a good idea to have some around for this type of horse, as the sweating can be really profuse).

    If it's cold, cover the horse with a cooler and/or sweat sheet. If it's hot, rinsing with tepid water is much better for the muscles than very cold water. It’s also sensible to add a brace (Vetrolin, Mineral Ice, or plain alcohol) to the rinse water.

    The vet will draw one sample of blood (and probably administer the medications mentioned above) and compare the analysis from that sample with another sample drawn a day or two later. The counts obtained on the first sample will tell you how far from normal ranges the horse is...the counts from the second sample will allow you to figure out how fast your horse's system is returning to normal--you can extrapolate to determine how quickly the horse can safely return to a full work schedule.

    Complete rest is normally not recommended or necessary--but the horse should not be expected to resume a heavy workload immediately. Using moderation and paying careful attention to stress indicators (breathing, heart rate, perspiration), the horse can gradually be returned to a normal exercise schedule.


    Part II:
    Overall Management of "Tying Up" (aka: RER, PSSM, EPSM)

    The most important thing to know about them is that each of the above acronyms are separately recognized syndromes that cause similar muscle-distress symptoms in equines that horsemen have called "tying up" for eons. If a horse is prone to tying up it can be a huge training problem. One of the foremost authorities on tying up is Dr. Stepanie Valberg (U Min); her primary research has been with RER and PSSM. (A Google search will yield good information about Dr. Valberg’s efforts and the current status of research in this field).

    Managing a horse that ties up is a two-front affair. Their nutritional needs are very specific in that they need a low starch, high fat diet. Any level of exertion, including both turnout and exercise/training must be carefully monitored. Care must be taken in bringing such a horse into work and keeping it fit. I have outlined the program I have followed with success for my RER TB gelding, who competes in the jumper division.

    On the nutritional front, I use a feed called RE-LEVE, which has been specifically formulated to address the nutritional needs of horses who are prone to tying up.

    I have been told by several vets to avoid alfalfa, as calcium is now thought to have a relationship to tying up that is not yet understood but is being researched. It’s not scientific, but my personal experience is that my horse was either on rich pasture or had significant amounts of alfalfa in his hay during the times he tied up, so I generally try to avoid feeding him alfalfa.

    Mine is a big horse by TB standards these days at 16.2 with rather a big frame. When in work he is fed:

    6 qts of RE-LEVE daily, beet pulp (w/no molasses, about 3 qts. soaked), electrolytes. He gets nice grass hay or timothy. I will sometimes add even more fat to his diet by putting oil (KER now offers EO3) on his hay. It takes him awhile to accept the hay that way, so unless I am able to do this consistently at every feeding I skip it.

    Exercise management is particularly critical to a successful program. I keep my horse's RER at bay by keeping him at a constant level of fitness when he is competing. It takes a little more time to bring him into a fit state than others I ride, as he has to be brought into work more gradually after a period of rest. Once fit, I keep him that way, with no days off at all, which maintains his metabolism in good working order.

    Between shows I keep him fit by taking him for slow gallops to provide him with aerobic workouts, either in our field or on the mowed gallops nearby for variety. When I take him to competitions, he does much better at multi-day events than at one day shows. I find that in the trailer area there is at least one hysterical horse that is always pawing or neighing constantly, and when that is the case, my horse is always very nervous. Putting him into a stall where he can settle down helps him acclimate much better, and he goes to the ring much more relaxed from the stabling area than he does from the trailer.

    Managing nerves is as big a factor as managing the diet of these horses--I have found that tackling this problem head on is better than keeping my horse too quiet in between shows--I’ve had better luck with constant levels of activity, giving him exposure as frequently as possible to different experiences. Keeping him too quiet in between shows makes for too much of a shock when he gets back to the show grounds, so I always try to get him "off campus" as much as possible in between events, riding in company, taking trail rides, working in fields rather than rings, going out of my way to ride past areas of activity and noise, but making no big fuss while doing so.

    In addition to his workouts, my horse spends ample time in turnout. Being in a stall is nearly universally acknowledged to be undesirable for these horses--their muscles need to stay loose, as do their minds. This being said, there is one aspect of turnout that can instantly derail otherwise successful management protocols. Keeping in mind that a horse’s metabolism makes no distinction between “work” and “play,” excessive exercise in turnout can add significantly to a horse’s overall workload.

    Due to the cumulative nature of the systemic metabolic agents responsible for producing tying up symptoms, an exuberant horse that remains overactive, running, bucking, and playing for extended periods of time can easily throw a carefully planned program into disarray. It’s possible that the horse may tie up on its own as a result of this behavior, or that even a relatively light workout can subsequently result in tying up symptoms. The caveat here is that susceptible horses should be very closely monitored in turnout so that trainers are aware of the horse’s total exertion level (in work and turnout combined) when making day to day decisions about how much work can be tolerated or should be attempted. Handlers should be alert for any signs of stiffness or other symptoms of tying up exhibited, even if the horse that has “only” been turned out.

    Successfully managing to keep a horse that ties up in work is quite possible when sufficient awareness of the horse’s general condition can be combined with carefully controlled diet and exercise protocols. Though it may be necessary to try different approaches in providing these components on a case-by-case basis, I hope that the above outline is helpful in providing guidance to others tackling this often difficult problem.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2011
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    Dr Kellon runs a discussion groups on Yahoo dedicated to different disorders. I have found the one focused on EPSM and PSSM to be unbelievably helpful.

    She also runs a nutrition class online that helps you learn how to balance your horses diet right down to the vitamins and minerals.

    The first three things I would evaluate in your horses diet are:

    1. Magnesium

    2. Vitamin E

    3. Salt

    All of these can be added to your horse's diet without large expense or danger of over supplementing.

    My personal experience with SmartPak and an horse with EPSM- don't waste your money. I spent the last 5 or so months feeding Smart Muscle Stamina at their recommendation after a webinar with little notable result. I wish they offered a simple (and inexpensive) Branch Chain Amino Acid (BCAA) supplement and ALCAR.

    I'm not sure of your horse's breed but I noticed you mentioned they are off the track. If it is a QH I would look more strongly into EPSM/PSSM. My horse is 100 times better now that she is eating the diet balanced with Dr. Kellon and the group's help. She is NOT on high fat. She is in ALCAR and it has made a world of difference. I personally, based on my experience with my horse, don't believe high fat is the way to go.


    Good luck!



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