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  1. #21
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    You could print out the post from Pal-o-mino about her horrendous experience working at the puppy mill. Perhaps that would cure SIL of her breeding fixation. Or not.

    Sigh. Just go get your puppy spayed and ignore her. Idiots can't be reasoned with.
    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry



  2. #22
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    If it isn't her dog, her opinion on whether or not it should be bred is completely irrelevant.

    And then , as Guin said, just spay the puppy. Won't matter what she thinks or tries to convince your husband of then.



  3. #23
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    well, for health reasons you shouldn't spay until the dog isn't a puppy anymore- two or three years old- but breeding your dog because your nosy SIL tells you to is rather silly.
    If you think breeding might be fun, well, go right ahead and see if your bitch is nice enough to breed- you'll need lots of health tests, study her family tree carefully to see if the lines are mentally and physically healthy; you'll want to get a conformation championship (big bucks); and with a GSD, it's essential you prove she's a good breeding prospect by doing well in advanced schutzhund (lots of time and money spent there, but you might enjoy it immensely, and your dog will too).
    By the time your dog is old enough to be spayed or bred, you should have a pretty good idea if your dog is nice enough to breed or not (most likely not, since only a small percentage of even the best-bred dogs are nice enough for breeding) and you'll probably be quite tired of dealing with her heats and will be eager to spay.
    On the other hand, maybe she will turn out to be fabulous enough to consider for breeding, and then you can research how to select a stud, and learn about stud fees, and all the work involved in pre-selling the puppies, and then you can read up on the horrors of raising a litter of puppies, and the horrors of whelpings gone wrong, and you'll realize you'll lose lots of money on the litter, and you'll probably spay anyway.



  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    (Jimmy Moses will probably do it for a few bucks),
    I'd like to bet that Jimmy Moses has his hands more than full with enough show quality prospects that he wouldn't be interested.

    Here's a good article for you (or your SIL):

    http://www.hkc.org/breeding_your_dog.htm
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  5. #25
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    Aug. 3, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emryss View Post
    I wouldn't breed "just because".

    I had a sister in law of a sister in law tell me that I should breed my particolor poodle pup...and this from a woman who showed poodles! This puppy was a terrible example of a poodle - downhill, long backed, no angles to speak of - there was no reason to breed him at all! Nope, Bingo is happily neutered and no puppies from him at all.
    A person who shows poodles told you this? A "parti-color" isn't even an allowed color!!!



  6. #26
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    Nov. 2, 2006
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    I would keep it simple and go with "I don't want to risk the health of my beloved pet" I admit to breeding (and yes, full health screenings, AKC titles, the whole nine yards) and my husband was literally green with his head between his knees when Gayle (aka "baby girl) was on the table for her c-section. And this is with him being good friends with the veterinarian doing the surgery and married to the one running the anesthesia.



  7. #27
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    Nov. 5, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by S1969 View Post
    Tell her you think it's a fabulous idea. She can pay for the shows and the handlers (Jimmy Moses will probably do it for a few bucks), the health checks and the stud fee. Tell her she can even buy a puppy when you're done. It probably won't cost more than....oh....a few thousand dollars to get your bitch ready for breeding. IF she's show quality. Otherwise, then I'd say no thanks, we'll just spay her and enjoy her as a pet.
    I wrote this up a few years ago when I got tired of seeing people selling intact female German Shepherds as "great for breeding" or "make extra money, and breed her."


    Female German Shepherd 3 yrs old (I chose 3, you'll see why)
    OFA Hip X-rays and reporting: $200 (usually more)
    DM testing, cardiac, etc.: $200 (usually more)
    Health testing as required by stud's owner: $300
    Stud fee from quality dog: $1000
    Veterinary visit confirming pregnancy: $200
    Feeding of mom (feed more - feeding more): $150 per month for a period of, let's say including after pups are born an 9 wks old - $1650 (not including any prenatal vitamins, meds)
    Follow-up Vet visits: $300
    Birth.
    Vet visit for puppies: $200
    Initial deworming and vaccinations for puppies: $50 per pup (we'll say 5 pups) - $250
    Second round of dewormer and vaccinations for puppies: $250

    Total cost of producing a litter: $4,550 (and that's assuming there aren't any complications)

    As someone else said, "No" is a complete sentence.
    If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
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    Quote Originally Posted by talkofthetown View Post
    As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.



  8. #28
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    Aug. 12, 2010
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    If for some bizarre family dynamics reason you can't just tell her "NO" without a big blowup, tell her that the puppy has a rare birth defect, she was born without ovaries, soooo sad . But, you did get a discount on her.



  9. #29
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    Nov. 2, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by HydroPHILE View Post
    I wrote this up a few years ago when I got tired of seeing people selling intact female German Shepherds as "great for breeding" or "make extra money, and breed her."


    Female German Shepherd 3 yrs old (I chose 3, you'll see why)
    OFA Hip X-rays and reporting: $200 (usually more)
    DM testing, cardiac, etc.: $200 (usually more)
    Health testing as required by stud's owner: $300
    Stud fee from quality dog: $1000
    Veterinary visit confirming pregnancy: $200
    Feeding of mom (feed more - feeding more): $150 per month for a period of, let's say including after pups are born an 9 wks old - $1650 (not including any prenatal vitamins, meds)
    Follow-up Vet visits: $300
    Birth.
    Vet visit for puppies: $200
    Initial deworming and vaccinations for puppies: $50 per pup (we'll say 5 pups) - $250
    Second round of dewormer and vaccinations for puppies: $250

    Total cost of producing a litter: $4,550 (and that's assuming there aren't any complications)

    As someone else said, "No" is a complete sentence.
    I think you're pretty accurate. I figured out that at retail costs, my first corgi litter (not counting training classes/show fees) cost $5-6k. My husband had his first GSP litter before he met me. He kept one bitch out of a litter of 8 puppies. He tells me it would have cost less to buy a puppy from another breeder as he was about $1500 under water when all was said and done.



  10. #30
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    Jul. 20, 1999
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    CA
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingerlynn View Post
    Great answers! Clearly I can say no to my bully SIL but my husband has trouble saying no to his senior sister. There are some family issues that are very hard to figure out in this family My SIL just breeds all her females and doesn't even bother to teach them to walk on a leash let alone titling them
    She has convinced my husband that breeding puppies is totally simple.
    So is your husband pushing for puppies now because his sister told him to?



  11. #31
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    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacardi1 View Post
    SIL sounds like an irresponsible backyard breeder - one step up (or sideways) from a puppy mill.

    Stick to your guns & tell your poor husband to grow a set. Geesh. Again - how old are you guys? If you're old enough to get married, you're clearly old enough to have your own morals & standards & stick by them. (One can only hope.)

    I feel really sorry for you & your husband if he can be swayed by his sister re: something like this. God help you if he can be swayed by her for other more important life issues.
    Seriously. Tell her to eff off, it's your dog. And then get her spayed (they can do that pretty young.) The dog, I mean, not the SIL, as that's unfortunately illegal in most states...



  12. #32
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    Nov. 5, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canaqua View Post
    If for some bizarre family dynamics reason you can't just tell her "NO" without a big blowup, tell her that the puppy has a rare birth defect, she was born without ovaries, soooo sad . But, you did get a discount on her.
    If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
    DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
    Quote Originally Posted by talkofthetown View Post
    As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.



  13. #33
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    Nov. 15, 2006
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    Lexington, Kentucky
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    Having just brought home a GSD from Indianapolis Animal Control last night who was due to be euthanized the next day due to failing all the Temperament Tests, and seeing another beautiful GSD in there needing to get out... I'd say don't breed her.
    We're spending our money on horses and bourbon. The rest we're just wasting.
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  14. #34
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    Feb. 27, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by wendy View Post
    well, for health reasons you shouldn't spay until the dog isn't a puppy anymore- two or three years old-
    Um, no. There is a significant protective benefit, in that the risk nearly goes to zero, for mammary cancer when bitches are spayed before their first heat. I hate removing mammary tumors. I also hate spaying big fat adult bitches. (I would rather cut a GDV or a foreign body!) It is not a simple, easy operation on a 3 year old bitch the way it is on a 6 or 9 month old puppy. Also from a practicality standpoint, the average owner cannot and should not be encouraged to attempt to manage an intact female for 2 or 3 years!!! I see way too many oops breedings as it is.



  15. #35
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    I am just going to assume that

    (1) you are buying the puppy from a reputable breeder whose sales contract includes a clause saying that you agree to have the puppy spayed at the appropriate age; or

    (2) you are adopting the puppy from a reputable rescue that has already either spayed the puppy or has in their contract a clause that you will have it done at your expense at the appropriate age.

    In either case, do as a previous poster said and do not leave the puppy alone with your SIL!
    Last edited by Wellspotted; Oct. 14, 2012 at 01:08 AM.
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  16. #36
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    Jul. 20, 1999
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellspotted View Post
    I am just going to assume that

    (1) you are buying the puppy from a reputable breeder whose sales contract includes a clause saying that you agree to have the puppy spayed at the appropriate age; or

    (2) you are adopting the puppy from a reputable rescue that has already either spayed the puppy or has in their contract a clause that you will have it done at your expense at the appropriate age.

    In either case, do as a previous poster said and do not leave the puppy along with your SIL!
    Good point! Unless pup is coming from a crappy byb, breeding her shouldn't even be an issue because she'll be spayed as a pet dog. Are you getting the pup from your SIL?



  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLBGP View Post
    Good point! Unless pup is coming from a crappy byb, breeding her shouldn't even be an issue because she'll be spayed as a pet dog. Are you getting the pup from your SIL?
    The contract doesn't state much at all. I am not all that impressed with these people as a kennel.....I think they are one step away from a puppy mll, but, came highly recommended by my SIL



  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by gingerlynn View Post
    The contract doesn't state much at all. I am not all that impressed with these people as a kennel.....I think they are one step away from a puppy mll, but, came highly recommended by my SIL
    Well, there's your answer. Do not buy a puppy from them. Problem solved.

    Now there are only 3 questions facing you.
    1) Do you adopt a spayed puppy from a reputable rescue (or sign a contract that you will have her spayed)? or
    2) Do you buy a puppy from a reputable breeder and sign a contract that you will have her spayed? or
    3) Do you adopt a puppy from your local humane society/shelter and sign a contract that you will have her spayed if she isn't already?

    (I sympathize with you about having this SIL. I have been in a somewhat similar relationship with a somewhat similar ignorant but influential person. This one thought that the parti-poodles she bought from a backyard breeder were "party poodles" so named for their great personalities! )

    Oh--BTW--can you get the almost-puppy-mill reported and shut down?
    Founder of the People Who Prefer COTH Over FB Clique
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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne View Post
    Um, no. There is a significant protective benefit, in that the risk nearly goes to zero, for mammary cancer when bitches are spayed before their first heat. I hate removing mammary tumors. I also hate spaying big fat adult bitches. (I would rather cut a GDV or a foreign body!) It is not a simple, easy operation on a 3 year old bitch the way it is on a 6 or 9 month old puppy. Also from a practicality standpoint, the average owner cannot and should not be encouraged to attempt to manage an intact female for 2 or 3 years!!! I see way too many oops breedings as it is.
    I've seen many more spayed big fat adult bitches than intact

    There is alot more of consequence than just mammary cancer- not to minimize this disease - but if you were my vet I'd be disappointed at your over-simplification of the risks/benefits of early spay/neuter ...

    Just out of curiosity, are you doing laparoscopic spays or traditional?

    I agree with Wellspotted, I'd be looking for a reputable breeder to buy a puppy from, or looking for a lovely dog from one of the many GSD rescues - there are so many GSD's in rescue that you can choose your preferred color, coat, type, age etc & still have many dogs to choose from



  20. #40
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    Dec. 18, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by HydroPHILE View Post
    I wrote this up a few years ago when I got tired of seeing people selling intact female German Shepherds as "great for breeding" or "make extra money, and breed her."


    Female German Shepherd 3 yrs old (I chose 3, you'll see why)
    OFA Hip X-rays and reporting: $200 (usually more)
    DM testing, cardiac, etc.: $200 (usually more)
    Health testing as required by stud's owner: $300
    Stud fee from quality dog: $1000
    Veterinary visit confirming pregnancy: $200
    Feeding of mom (feed more - feeding more): $150 per month for a period of, let's say including after pups are born an 9 wks old - $1650 (not including any prenatal vitamins, meds)
    Follow-up Vet visits: $300
    Birth.
    Vet visit for puppies: $200
    Initial deworming and vaccinations for puppies: $50 per pup (we'll say 5 pups) - $250
    Second round of dewormer and vaccinations for puppies: $250

    Total cost of producing a litter: $4,550 (and that's assuming there aren't any complications)

    As someone else said, "No" is a complete sentence.
    You're missing a few other costs, assuming you have a quality bitch and you are putting a title on her:

    The cost of the show quality bitch to begin with: $1000+
    The cost to show her and demonstrate that she is show-worthy: ???

    Hard to say how much....even if you can't get Jimmy Moses to handle, you will still rack up some expenses. I'm not sure I really want to total up how much I spent to get my dog's Ch. but it is important to have an idea of the cost if you're a breeder - you need to know if you can finish the dog easily enough to make it worth the effort.

    I saw a dog finish in 3 shows this past summer - won the breed from the classes and won the group 3 days in a row. Wow. But most nice dogs aren't that lucky, even if they are almost perfect. So....$30 entries for somewhere between 10 and 30? shows?

    $300-900 in show entries or more...
    Handling....if necessary...$50-100+ per show....(let's just say $500)

    Travel costs, hotels, grooming....(I am sure I easily spent $1000 or more)...

    So on top of your $4550, you can reasonably add another $3K if you are talking about breeding a show quality dog)....$7550+....for one litter.

    Breeding a quality animal is not for the faint of heart! And not usually a money making endeavor if you really total up the costs....




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