The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 42
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2012
    Posts
    47

    Default Advice? *Video* *UPDATED VIDEO Post 34!*

    Hey everyone! I have a 3YO that I started last year in April, lightly worked him until July, and now have restarted him again this month. He still is very green and only has a small amount of rides on him, but I was just wondering what you guys think. My goal is to show him in the Young Hunters at Devon in 2013. Does anyone have any good exercises that they've found really helps a green horse learn to carry themselves? I've been doing some that have been working great, but I want to know what others are doing as well. He still has quite a few 3YO moments (as expected). He'll get himself behind the bit and sometimes won't come off of my leg (usually only in the beginning when he's full of himself). Sometimes he gets forward or tries to stop or come off the rail. I haven't really done anything with him yet because I want to take it really slow with him. I didn't even want to be cantering him yet but one day he insisted on it and I didn't really want to fight with him. He is being ridden in a rubber snaffle that's a bit too small for him (it's a 5 1/4" and I think he needs a 5 1/2"). I have my sights set on July 27th for his first show (definitely Novice Hunter w/t, maybe w/t/c) and as I said earlier Devon in 2013. Do you guys think this is realistic? Any suggestions on something that you see would be appreciated! Thanks!

    http://youtu.be/HSZkaBU-sLY
    Last edited by WilSprFarm; Oct. 9, 2012 at 01:01 PM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2007
    Location
    Bremo Bluff, Virginia
    Posts
    1,321

    Default

    He is lovely!
    I'm glad I watched all the way to the end, too. I'm no pro at starting horses, but my first impression was to stop worrying about getting him on the bit. Worry, first, about getting him to move forward. He looks a bit choppy, behind your leg, and confused by the bit in the first part of the video. Lots of steering, bending, and forward at all gaits and directions. That will essentially force him to carry himself rather than relying on you and the bit. Put him on the bit later when you start teaching him to adjust.

    At the end when you drop the contact, he moved up nicely. I think the roundness you want will come to him quite easily later. He is a sweet looking boy. Good luck with him.
    "In the beginning, the universe was created. This made a lot of people angry and has widely been considered as a bad move." -Douglas Adams



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    31,454

    Default

    OK, keep in mind I never respond to these unless there is alot more good then bad, I have to like what I see or I just say nuthin at all. Don't take it personally.

    Anyway, really, you need to quit with the piano/puppy dog hands and put your thumbs up, lift lower arm up and forward little instead of the bent elbow, droopy wrists buried in the pommel. For one thing, it makes you very weak in position and slows response when sudden correction is needed, no way you can lengthen or shorten in a hurry and you have to move your hands all over to get a direct or indirect rein. Ideally you want to keep your hands still and in the spot you have 100% of that horse right there all the time. That is effective riding.

    The other biggie with hands like that is you can NOT maintain a light and
    consistent, proper contact with his mouth. You end up picking up then dropping him and you can see how he responds to that inconsistent contact.

    You also need to chant "leg to hand" to yourself every stride and do it. This is mostly hand to leg. You get his nose and loose his back end so he pops up to regain it and you pick again with no leg and he can't really use himself as well as he should.

    More leg is going to get you more impulsion too, that ought to get him moving. He is shuffling along here, tooooo sloooooow, no where near overstepping, kind of dumped a little on the front and sort of peddling along in back. Your transition from canter to trot sort of dumps him in front a little, it needs to come from behind via leg.

    I don't know if you notice but he seems to move alot more freely to the left then the right. I don't know if that's because you started right and he was looser when you reversed or if he needs more bending and flexibility work on his right side.

    The couple of trot steps he takes when you let go of the reins? About the best he moves in this session.

    IMO he is nice enough and you are good enough to get serious and fix some of the little sloppy things you cannot get away with at Devon or any other AA venue with good competition.

    If you fix your hands and leg-maybe wear, and use, spurs? Carry a stick? Little more work to the right? Should make things easier and get you pointed in the right direction.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 3, 2003
    Location
    Up the creek from bar.ka
    Posts
    10,036

    Default

    He looks like a really nice horse but you've got some work to do on you.

    His trot step is bigger than your posting motion. Can you see in the video how his front leg is still off the ground but you're already on his back? Your tiny posting motion is causing him to travel in that short trot. If you watch his feet hitting the ground and watch your posting motion, you are not in time with him.

    Something to practice would be to post up once and hold yourself over the pommel for two beats and then slowly going back to the saddle, then post up and hold... repeat. Really exaggerate staying over the pommel so he can complete the step.

    Another thing which may help you is to count 1, 2, 1, 2 for your posting, and LISTEN to his hooves hitting the ground. Does your posting rhythm match his? It doesn't in the video.

    Here is a video of me on a rising 4 yo on his first ride back after winter break.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=036dK...5&feature=plcp
    See how my posting motion matches the length of his stride?


    Is there a good dressage trainer in your area who can help you improve your posting mechanics?

    Good luck with him, he looks like a lovely horse.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 7, 2010
    Posts
    476

    Default

    I agree with both tidy and f8.

    It looks like you need to strengthen your base of support so you can trot with his motion. It looks like you are not used to trotting on something with as big a step as his? Strengthening your core and leg will help you better carry your hand. You could use more bend in your elbows and to carry your hand where the martingale would be (you look stiff and a bit locked in the elbow).

    At this point, work on making him trot forward into your hand. Think leg first into a lifting hand when he wants to get low and curl. When he lifts up and engages, release your contact a bit as a reward. Don't worry about his head set for now, just focus on riding him from your leg into your hand.

    I think your horse is cute and working on circles and changes in directions to get him thinking, steering and loosen up will help him move a bit better. You might want to also consider scattering a bunch of poles around your ring and trotting him over them as you circle around and change directions to help him engage his hind end. Transitions, with a lot of leg on the downward transitions are something else that he could probably handle. Make sure you lift your body up and back as you transition down, you really shouldn't need to use your hand much.

    Tidy's video offers a lot, both in exercises you can work on and give you examples to help with your position, particularly her elbows.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2012
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Thank you, thank you, thank you! You guys pointed out a lot of things I didn't notice (and some that I did know). I usually weave in and out and do turns around all of the jumps but for the video I rode him around the entire arena. The posting thing I definitely did not notice and I can't wait to work on it!

    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post

    I don't know if you notice but he seems to move alot more freely to the left then the right. I don't know if that's because you started right and he was looser when you reversed or if he needs more bending and flexibility work on his right side.
    He had a bone spur removed from his left front pastern in December, and he was more off when that leg was on the outside. He goes a ton better than he used to, and my vet declared him sound and told me to start working him.

    Thank you guys so much again! I really appreciate it!



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    31,454

    Default

    Had another thought here based on the rest of the observations, can you ride him out? As in away from any rail he can use as a sort of crutch and learn to crab along haunch in as so very many do?

    Don't get what I mean? Stand behind almost any horse going down the rail. Are they straight with their body or are they leading in with the haunch and out with the shoulder??? Or look down at the rail as you ride along. Is the distance from his shoulder to the fence the same as from his hip to the fence? If so, he is going crooked as described because he is wider by quite a bit at the hip then he is at the shoulder. If his body was straight, he would be futher off the rail at the shoulder then the hip.

    If you can ride out, away from the rail where he does not have to turn a corner every 8 or 10 strides, he can learn to stand up straight all by himself and that's going to help him learn self carriage and you learn to trust him and let him go along on his own.

    They get so drilled along the rail and so prone to going crooked, it bites us when we try to do something that requires them to be straight. Lead changes or finding that perfect distance all the way from the corner for example, things you need to win at the AA levels.

    Really being straight also allows the horse to move the best they can and looks noticeably better to the judge.

    Give it some thought, and follow Tidy's advice on some Dressage lessons, preferably on a finished horse so you can learn that feel, then take that to your flatwork on your own horse.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2010
    Location
    california
    Posts
    4,139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    OK, keep in mind I never respond to these unless there is alot more good then bad, I have to like what I see or I just say nuthin at all. Don't take it personally.

    Anyway, really, you need to quit with the piano/puppy dog hands and put your thumbs up, lift lower arm up and forward little instead of the bent elbow, droopy wrists buried in the pommel. For one thing, it makes you very weak in position and slows response when sudden correction is needed, no way you can lengthen or shorten in a hurry and you have to move your hands all over to get a direct or indirect rein. Ideally you want to keep your hands still and in the spot you have 100% of that horse right there all the time. That is effective riding.

    The other biggie with hands like that is you can NOT maintain a light and
    consistent, proper contact with his mouth. You end up picking up then dropping him and you can see how he responds to that inconsistent contact.

    You also need to chant "leg to hand" to yourself every stride and do it. This is mostly hand to leg. You get his nose and loose his back end so he pops up to regain it and you pick again with no leg and he can't really use himself as well as he should.

    More leg is going to get you more impulsion too, that ought to get him moving. He is shuffling along here, tooooo sloooooow, no where near overstepping, kind of dumped a little on the front and sort of peddling along in back. Your transition from canter to trot sort of dumps him in front a little, it needs to come from behind via leg.

    I don't know if you notice but he seems to move alot more freely to the left then the right. I don't know if that's because you started right and he was looser when you reversed or if he needs more bending and flexibility work on his right side.

    The couple of trot steps he takes when you let go of the reins? About the best he moves in this session.

    IMO he is nice enough and you are good enough to get serious and fix some of the little sloppy things you cannot get away with at Devon or any other AA venue with good competition.

    If you fix your hands and leg-maybe wear, and use, spurs? Carry a stick? Little more work to the right? Should make things easier and get you pointed in the right direction.
    Thanks, my guy is a little further along but THIS is what I am learning as I ride a very green guy. I need to copy this and paste to my brain since now that my guy is moving forward, I need to step up and support him and I have the habit of reins at the pommel.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    31,454

    Default

    Read the above post too, #7. It took me years and years to learn that and it made the biggest difference anything ever has in all my horses.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2010
    Location
    california
    Posts
    4,139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    Read the above post too, #7. It took me years and years to learn that and it made the biggest difference anything ever has in all my horses.
    Yes, that one is harder but I do ride off the rail for most of my ride and I learned years ago that if you want to learm how to get your horse straight, go to a dressage trainer. I have my dressage trainer lined up for my guy. Thanks again for all of your posts-as well as others-since some of us read this stuff over and over and although we can have trainers, our rides are our own.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2010
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    5,925

    Default

    Are you used to a trained warmblood? You appear as if you're used to a horse who holds its own tempo and balance and not only doesn't need adjustment - but doesn't adjust much.

    That's just learned riding style from whoever you've been riding, not any kind of limitation on you as long as you follow the advice already given. I like him quite a lot, and if you and he work together to get good dressage instruction at least through 1st level (I'd be wanting to add shoulder fore and shoulder in when he's ready, too, for sure) it will make a huge difference for the two of you. He's the type who will just naturally want to hold himself nice and lovely and steady without much bend or give in his body. Getting him soft and bending laterally will allow him to not just be nice and lovely, but also using his hind end and entire body for the roundness and bend you ultimately want to see on the flat and over fences. You're asking the right questions, and he certainly has started out nicely - it sure looks like you're headed in the right direction! Good luck!
    My horse is a dressage diva so I don't have to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by katarine
    If you have a fat gay horse that likes Parelli, you're really screwed



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 10, 2006
    Posts
    7,347

    Default

    Ditto findeight's suggestion to ride him out, which will help with not only the straightness but with going FORWARD.

    Also agree that dressage lessons would be helpful for you both.

    He looks like he has the makings of a nice horse, you seem quite willing to work on yourself, and I think you guys will do just fine.
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2012
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Thanks again guys!

    Some of the things you've been saying I actually know and completely forgot about until reading your posts, so thanks! I've never ridden a horse this green (heck, I don't even know if he's considered green yet; he's barely broke!). I'm definitely going to try your suggestions after working with him a bit more. He still doesn't understand all of my aids so I need to work on that a bit more before going any farther. I'm used to riding my hot appendix and green OTTBs, so a slow loopy warmblood is way out of my comfort zone, lol. But I love this horse and I can't wait until we're more adjusted!



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2006
    Posts
    637

    Default

    Not a whole lot to add here, but I think he is very very pretty!! Also, that is one spooky jump in your arena with the huge tarp wrapped on the pole!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
    Posts
    31,454

    Default

    When you school him awhile and he gets a little tired, try this to fix your hands...might even want to do it when cooling out then first time. Easy too.

    Put your thumbs up and hands in the proper spot about 6 inches apart above and in front of the pommel and, get what you think is the right rein length, light contact, then put your stick under your thumbs. Keep it there. Easy huh? You bet and it is going to be one of the the most uncomfortable things you ever have done. When you can do it at the walk, you get to do it at all gaits AND circles/serpentines. It is very humbling.

    But it is going to help you stop riding your crooked horse crooked by keeping equal contact with both sides of his mouth. Also help square your shoulders to keep your weight even in the irons to help him stay straight and level. It forces you to stop relying on hands and learn to use your body.

    Little things like this can make a huge difference in what it looks like to a judge-you may not be able to make a 7 mover into a 9 but you sure can make that 9 look like a 7.

    Think on that and work it out to maximize what this nice horse can do.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Apr. 3, 2003
    Location
    Up the creek from bar.ka
    Posts
    10,036

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WilSprFarm View Post
    I'm definitely going to try your suggestions after working with him a bit more. He still doesn't understand all of my aids so I need to work on that a bit more before going any farther.
    I'm not sure if I'm applying a meaning here that you didn't mean to imply, but since I'm reading this as "I am not going to ask for 'more forward' until he understands my aids better" I assume maybe some other readers may think this same thing, so I would like to comment on that thought, even if it's not what you were implying....

    One of the very first things a horse should learn is to go really forward. On a baby horse a trainer/jockey should not be waiting for all the training to be installed before asking for the horse to really GO! Forward should be your #1 goal, all the other things follow.

    A horse who doesn't pay attention or is spooky should be sent forward, and by a lot.

    A horse who is backed off and dull, should be sent forward and by a lot.

    A horse who sucks back and kicks out at your aids, should be sent forward.

    A horse who is hard to steer because it's slow and earth bound, is amazingly easier to ride and steer if it has got impulsion and is going forward.

    Everything in the horse's formative months under saddle should be based on GO!



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2012
    Posts
    47

    Default

    Oops, sorry, that was a bit confusing of a comment on my part. I just meant that right now he is either over sensitive or under sensitive to my aids. Some he responds to and some he does not because he does not understand what I am asking yet. Right now I'm working on getting him to come off my leg and respond to my seat. He definitely knows that both legs on means go! Once we've mastered those things a bit more then I'll start introducing new things and expecting him to start putting the pieces together. I don't want to overload him too quick. And I need to try to fix me on other horses rather than fiddle around with my issues on him.

    Basically I just taught him the basics and came on here to find out how I can best fine tune him



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,576

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WilSprFarm View Post
    Basically I just taught him the basics and came on here to find out how I can best fine tune him
    Can you go take some lessons with a great trainer? do that for a month & then post update videos: you'll be amazed at how much you both can change in a month



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2007
    Location
    Alpharetta
    Posts
    2,095

    Default

    I agree with most of all the posts.
    BUT, you have some retraining to do, you have created a strong short muscle structure by riding him hand to leg, a false head set that is unstable and incorrect, his movement is front to back. You have no forward impulsion. You have short choppy strides and not long flowing ones.
    So, if he was my horse, we would take him on long walks outside the ring, to get a long flowing, swinging shoulder walk, with his head low and NO contact, give him his head and let him build those long muscles.
    I would go on long walks 3-4 times a week and in between I would bring him into the ring and try to imitate that walk until you have a consistent pace, then when you feel he is carrying himself at the walk, I would pick up a trot, but it will have to be your feel to know he is able to use himself,no contact! if not you can also, long line him or lunge him, don't let him run, he needs to use himself to build those long muscles. Transitions on the lunge very good for building muscle, only if he is work through his body and not running, must go very slow at each pace.
    Once you have establish him carrying himself prope,r things will progress more quickly, but this is the time to go slow and build the right muscle structure, the base for all you will build on. Love him and you ride nicely.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2007
    Location
    Alpharetta
    Posts
    2,095

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WilSprFarm View Post
    Oops, sorry, that was a bit confusing of a comment on my part. I just meant that right now he is either over sensitive or under sensitive to my aids. Some he responds to and some he does not because he does not understand what I am asking yet. Right now I'm working on getting him to come off my leg and respond to my seat. He definitely knows that both legs on means go! Once we've mastered those things a bit more then I'll start introducing new things and expecting him to start putting the pieces together. I don't want to overload him too quick. And I need to try to fix me on other horses rather than fiddle around with my issues on him.

    Basically I just taught him the basics and came on here to find out how I can best fine tune him
    He is not really ready for the aids as you describe them, right now he needs to learn about leg going forward, I already like the way you use your seat, so thats very good to stay with. And seat, but thats about it, no rein aides for now, except the basic streering to assist you leg and seat.



Similar Threads

  1. Small (okay maybe HUGE) baby brag! UPDATED VIDEO post 12
    By CrimsonInClover in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: Aug. 8, 2011, 03:47 PM
  2. Replies: 57
    Last Post: Nov. 8, 2010, 12:44 PM
  3. Replies: 23
    Last Post: Jul. 14, 2010, 11:05 AM
  4. Replies: 32
    Last Post: Mar. 22, 2010, 09:12 AM
  5. Replies: 43
    Last Post: Jan. 9, 2009, 06:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •