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  1. #1
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    Default What does "confirmed" at a certain level mean to you?

    Just curious, what do you consider "confirmed" at a level? A specific % or no scores below a certain number? Is reaching this status typically what you use to determine if the horse is ready to move up (at shows)?



  2. #2
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    To me, confirmed at X Level means: the horse has received several scores at X Level from licensed competitions in the mid 60's or better. The horse is out there and actively doing it.

    I wouldn't expect "confirmed" to translate to "horse is ready to move up". There could be many reasons why a horse confirmed at one level is not ready to move up. Talent for one. I would however, expect a "confirmed" horse to be schooling some, if not many, of the next level elements at home.



  3. #3
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    IMO a horse that is actively showing at that level scoring in mid 60s. A horse that has shown more than 3 times at said level
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  4. #4
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    To me, "confirmed" at a level means actively shown at that level, with scores over 60%.



  5. #5
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    Pushing 70% at rated shows, all three tests of the level.



  6. #6
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    Good grief! A horse can be confirmed at a level without having been shown at all.

    If you can hop on the horse and get a decent simple change, rhythmic shoulder in and haunches in @ trot, a medium trot that shows a difference lengthen in canter, correct rein back, leg yield if asked and a nice turn on the haunches that is a second level horse. If the horse struggles with any of this I would not call it confirmed regardless of scores. Lack of them or exceeding what folks consider necessary to move up.
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ― Albert Einstein



  7. #7
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    Show me some sales videos and I can tell you who is not comfirmed.

    For me it is pretty easy to tell if they have a fly by the seat movement vs comfortable and are flexible within one.

    I know of people who dont show LL they start at 3rd/4th so they have to just go by what it is they are able to do fairly easily vs. not.

    If someone says confirmed at a level I expect them to be schooling the one above without it being a complete disaster.
    ~~Member of the TB's Rule Clique ~~
    http://www.off-breed-dressage.blogspot.com/



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Pushing 70% at rated shows, all three tests of the level.
    That is totally ridiculous. Have you looked at the USDF rankings by level? How many horses showing Third and Fourth Levels get 70%? There are many horses confirmed at various levels in the low 60's because they are lacking in quality of gait. It doesn't mean they aren't confirmed in the work.



  9. #9
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    I tend to agree with others that said scores in the middle-high sixties at regular recognized with some consideration to the leve/rider/competition/judge---if these things can be known. No I do not think a horse has to compete to be'confirmed' at any level---but there is a difference between me telling you the horse is confirmed X and me handing you a competitive record.



  10. #10
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    The horse is confirmed at level X when he can do all of the movements required at that level consistently and correctly. If he's competing, this should translate to good scores, but a horse can be confirmed at a level without having competed.



  11. #11
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    Take a look at the Preliminary Rankings for AA at Third Level. There are 104 pairs that have enough scores (which is 8 I think) to make the list. Of those 104, only 28 are 65% and above. According to the thinking on this thread, the rest of them are probably not Confirmed Third Level.

    My thinking is that there is a big difference between getting a 65% or better at Training through Second, and it becomes much more difficult after that. It is not only about getting accurate and consistent movements. When showing, it is about being able to keep it all together for a series of movements. Also, even if a horse is confirmed, the rider may not be able to bring out that good work.



    Rank Horse Median Rider Reg
    1 Winsome 70.577 Yvette Diuri 7
    2 Welton's Pumuckl 69.872 Petra Hilleberg 6
    3 Rolex Tyme 69.551 Layne Sandercott 5
    4 Zulft SCF 69.231 Alexandra Krossen 1
    5 Veneciano 68.439 Anne Seemann 7
    6 Uprising 68.333 Martha Vaughan 7
    7 Forzando 67.632 Mary Crowe 8
    8 ZINEDINE 67.436 Joanna Speed-Rose 7
    9 Rickoshea 67.179 Heather Jans 2
    10 Akvavit 67.051 Kristy Truebenbach Lund 3
    11 Victory 66.974 Natalie Ellis 5
    12 Austin Chase 66.842 Sarah Pape Hester 9
    13 Reliance 66.603 Susan Jones 2
    14 Lanzelot 99 66.539 Jennifer van de Loo 3
    15 Don Campione 66.119 Veronica Nemmer 7
    16 Zidane 65.856 Kerri Stevens 3
    16 Ghardener 65.856 Sharon Lewis 2
    18 Donauwaltzer 65.843 Kelley DeLaPerriere 3
    19 Absolut Teyn 65.705 Laura Hagen 2
    20 Ventura 65.641 Marthe Winner 7
    21 Gusto 65.577 Ann Libert 2
    22 Mr. Donnerroy 65.427 Helle Rasmussen 7
    23 Wunder Women 65.395 Margaret Bjorkman 2
    24 Estrella 65.331 Jolene Novak 2
    25 River Side Lady 65.236 Robbie Rice 3
    26 Pikk Pokket 65.183 Marilyn Johnson 2
    27 LaGranto 65.052 Dawn White 1
    28 Gepetto 65.000 Chantal Simoneau 5
    28 Raker 65.000 Jessica Kaczmarek 2
    30 Dormellosohn 64.874 Kristine Smith 8
    31 Hermione 64.868 Laura Smith 2
    32 Silver Lining 64.744 Marilyn Johnson 2
    33 Sunset Boulevard 64.625 Stacey Gerling 4
    34 Pete Noir 64.615 Kimberly Murray 3
    35 Dudley Do Right 64.518 Margot Carter 6
    36 Uphelia DG 64.474 Bridget Walker 7
    37 ROMEO 64.423 Lezlie Rehagen 2
    38 Apfelkorn 64.359 Jenifer Watkins 7
    39 Pocos Dakota King 64.167 Amy Sand 4
    40 Komo 64.103 Susan Williams 7
    40 Sir Ridjon 64.103 Laurie Nykreim 6
    42 Whitney 64.079 Kathleen Oldford 3
    43 Coogan 63.942 Maureen Sullivan 2
    44 Aaron VI 63.856 Judi Coyne 1
    45 Cayenne 63.718 Louise White 9
    45 Leciano 63.718 Alyse Schuver 1
    47 Rossini 63.695 Kathryn McFadden 9
    48 Paradox 63.684 Iris Biely 1
    49 Lauren 63.659 Kristine Kuchinski-Broome 3
    49 Zinca 63.659 Kimberly Watts 7
    51 Heather Hill Adelaide 63.640 Deborah Hirons 7
    52 Ernst August 63.462 Karen Piper 7
    53 Seydlitz H 63.398 Megan Zureck 8
    54 Decaprio 63.334 Janet Sarn 1
    54 Werner 63.334 Kristin McCarty 5
    56 Florina 63.240 Bonnie Halka 1
    57 Speak Of The Devil 63.141 Jamie French 8
    58 Magda 63.077 Liz Bromberg 1
    59 Ruth Anne 63.059 Chris Derr 3
    60 Montana 63.048 Karen Wilson 8
    61 Hindrik Lauwers 63.026 Susan Zoltner 6
    62 Storlandro 62.988 Thomas Potter 7
    63 Zeus 62.961 Jill Goodwillie 8
    64 Toblerone 62.919 Tracey Uihlein 2
    65 Wroxy 62.895 Andrea Marek 6
    66 Resolution 62.885 Hillary Kissick 6
    67 Lan Fandango 62.874 Mary Austin Modic 3
    68 Clever Tryst 62.810 Diana Weede 6
    69 Granite Hills Rocketeer 62.692 Catherine Butland 8
    70 West Point 62.496 Lynn La Caze 7
    71 Duchess of Daence 62.477 Judy Burdge 3
    72 Bonverre 62.369 Laurel Peters 5
    73 Watik Wadai 62.319 Dianne Cloyd 7
    74 Hakuna Matata 62.317 Marsha Montgomery 1
    75 Trinity 62.308 Denise Lawton 7
    75 Soberano Do Funchal 62.308 Andrea Jackson 7
    77 Klassic Hour 62.179 Karina Lyons 7
    78 Rosselini 62.106 Anne Curcio 6
    79 Dahlia 62.105 Kathryn Kruemmling 1
    80 Statesman's Signature 62.051 Marthe Reynolds 8
    81 Harbor Mist 61.773 Jamie Hughes 6
    82 Oden 61.653 Nicole Muccio 8
    83 Sandro 61.562 Jenifer Gaffney 2
    84 William Flynn 61.538 Edison Barbosa 7
    84 Vincente 61.538 Rick Morris 6
    86 Iolanthe 61.331 Laura Haas 1
    87 GODTHAABS AL CAPONE 61.282 Cheryl Keefe 6
    88 Juilliard 61.208 Jennifer Chong 8
    89 SomethingtoHarbor 61.166 Heidi Gayle 1
    90 Alexis 61.154 Linda Sutton 4
    91 Orlando 61.090 Vanessa Eisenhauer 5
    92 Limerick 60.921 Becky O'reilly 7
    93 Zack Attack 60.856 Doreen Cropp 7
    94 Figaro 60.855 Cynthia Riley 7
    95 Rosalie 60.737 Katharine Feehery 8
    96 Legend Of Navarre 60.641 Paula Enos 8
    97 SSierra Mist 60.395 Sarah McCollister 4
    98 Anjou 60.256 Tram Williams 6
    98 Jasper 60.256 Julie Dybbro 6
    100 La Dolce Vita 60.189 Ann Mahoney 5
    101 Top-Flight Gunsmoke 60.132 Nancy Berrington 6
    102 Vin Diesel 60.130 Sarah Alder-Schaller 9
    103 Ducati CH 60.128 Diane Dougherty 9
    104 Monarch 60.000 Georgann Rumsey 4
    104 Touch'e 60.000 Lisa Neal 1
    104 GP Ubilee 60.000 Rose Grant 2
    104 Bandolero CLXXVI 60.000 Toni Mueller 6
    104 Cantilla 60.000 Karen Kieffer 3



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsefaerie View Post
    Good grief! A horse can be confirmed at a level without having been shown at all.

    If you can hop on the horse and get a decent simple change, rhythmic shoulder in and haunches in @ trot, a medium trot that shows a difference lengthen in canter, correct rein back, leg yield if asked and a nice turn on the haunches that is a second level horse. If the horse struggles with any of this I would not call it confirmed regardless of scores. Lack of them or exceeding what folks consider necessary to move up.
    Totally disagree. I would then describe that horse as having "confirmed x level movements". I know many horses that have confirmed movements at home and are a blast to ride, but try and put them in the show ring and do a 5 minute test and they fall apart or do not go well...for a variety of reasons. I would never say a horse is a confirmed x level horse unless they've been shown successfully at that level, multiple times.
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justice~for~Horses View Post
    That is totally ridiculous. Have you looked at the USDF rankings by level? How many horses showing Third and Fourth Levels get 70%? There are many horses confirmed at various levels in the low 60's because they are lacking in quality of gait. It doesn't mean they aren't confirmed in the work.
    OR because their amateur rider doesn't quite keep it together the whole time...Most of us are less than perfect riders - ie shoulder in should have a bit more angle. Half pass haunches were leading (or trailing); need more bend; stepped out or stuck a walk pirouette. Flying change was early/late. A bit more collection here or there; a little weak on asking for the medium or extended gait. And so on...Doesn't mean the horse isn't confirmed.
    We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbolte View Post
    The horse is confirmed at level X when he can do all of the movements required at that level consistently and correctly. If he's competing, this should translate to good scores, but a horse can be confirmed at a level without having competed.
    I agree. If one can consistently and correctly perform a test and *meet the directives of the test/level*, they are confirmed IMO. I agree that showing is not necessary. If you do clinics with or take lessons with proven riders/trainers or judges, you can become confirmed at a given level and move past it. Showing is an independent verification of "confirmation", but so is a clinic with a good judge.
    Proud member of the Colbert Dressage Nation



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daventry View Post
    Totally disagree. I would then describe that horse as having "confirmed x level movements". I know many horses that have confirmed movements at home and are a blast to ride, but try and put them in the show ring and do a 5 minute test and they fall apart or do not go well...for a variety of reasons. I would never say a horse is a confirmed x level horse unless they've been shown successfully at that level, multiple times.
    Agree!



  16. #16
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    To me "confirmed" at a certain level MUST mean the horse has shown at recognized competitions. I would say at least three times (any test of that level) and scoring above a 60% each time. I totally disagree that you can say a horse is confirmed at a level without showing. My gelding can do all the third level movements, but putting them together with enough power, collection, and suppleness to score well at a recognized show? Not quite there yet. Not to mention that a horse should be able to deal with the atmosphere of a show to be confirmed IMO.



  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwblover View Post
    To me "confirmed" at a certain level MUST mean the horse has shown at recognized competitions. I would say at least three times (any test of that level) and scoring above a 60% each time. I totally disagree that you can say a horse is confirmed at a level without showing. My gelding can do all the third level movements, but putting them together with enough power, collection, and suppleness to score well at a recognized show? Not quite there yet. Not to mention that a horse should be able to deal with the atmosphere of a show to be confirmed IMO.
    well put. Doing it at home is not confirmed. Doing it at the shows with the scores that, oh, I don't know....confirm, mastery? Yep!



  18. #18
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    You know I put mid 60s but the more I think about what I see out there I'd say over 60. For me, if lower than that then I wouldn't consider it confirmed IMO. I also would if we just schooled at home. If I had a hunter that can lengthen, shoulder in, etc for 2nd level I'm not going to sell him and say he is confirmed 2nd level. I'd say his training is equivalent to not confirmed.
    Horses aren't our whole life, but makes our life whole



  19. #19
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    I know horses that have the scores but ya can't just hop on em and get the work out of em.

    Again, it depends on what you want from the horse. If you want to ride a horse that will consistently give you the work at the level you want to TEACH you that is one thing.

    If you want a competition horse you are taking a chance. A horse can compete for one person, especially a good trainer, and not for the AA looking to buy a horse for competition.

    That is the basis for my remarks.

    Why does "confirmed" hold importance for you?
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ― Albert Einstein



  20. #20
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    Thanks everyone! The reason I asked was simply because I had heard that term tossed around but never really stopped to question what it really meant. Obviously it is fairly subjective but pretty much everyone's statements lined up with what I was thinking.



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