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  1. #401
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    All of us are young at some time and have had to figure for ourselves how the world works.
    Ignorance is easy to remedy, learn more.

    Lack of learning interest, call it whatever you want, idiocy is just one possible cause, that can't be helped.

    I too grew up with animal stories sitting in for humans as fables, so had a hard time separating animals as the animals they are and animals as representation for human stories.
    I talked to all animals and heard their responses.
    Yes, as a kid communication is not necessarily divided into spoken and all other.
    Body language and learning to infer from that what another being is saying is par for the course for me still today.

    As a very young kid, one of my chores was taking care of the rabbits we raised, that once grown were sent to the local restaurant.
    Heck I had never been in that fancy restaurant, or any other, really, just heard that is where the rabbits went and how nice a place it was.

    I think I was in my teens, long after I was not caring for the rabbits any more, that I realized one day what the rabbits were doing in that restaurant, being the meat in some plate.
    What a surprise!

    All of us have stories like that, it is part of who we are, we learn thru our lives and the more we learn, the more we find to question, as our horizons expand.

    I think that the trick to our awareness of the world around us being realistic is where being a bit more interested in thinking thru more than just what is obvious or following thoughtlessly what others tell us.

    -
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    The Humane Society Legislative Fund is now running a new TV ad opposing one of the most anti-animal politicians in Congress. Our ad exposes the terrible voting record on animal cruelty issues of Representative Steve King, (R-Iowa).

    Please watch the TV ad today, and make a generous donation to support ads like this in races across the country. <http://action.humanesociety.org/site/R?i=XQry8q0PIatG8Zq7x8QjPw> Your gift will help us fight back against anti-animal politicians like Steve King—and support our work to pass state and federal legislation to help animals.

    In addition to fighting anti-animal politicians this election season, we're also working to support our humane leaders in Congress and re-elect lawmakers who are standing up for the values of kindness and compassion. And we’re fighting for stronger animal protection laws, such as banning spectators at animal fights, ending invasive research on chimpanzees, and cracking down on puppy mill abuses.

    Politicians need to know that voters care about the humane treatment of animals, and will hold them accountable for being out of step with mainstream values. Remember, there are only 22 days left…and the animals can’t wait. With your help, we'll give the animals a voice this Election Day. <http://action.humanesociety.org/site/R?i=YrKbCPRJ2HDTN4UFaOnSDQ>


    Thank you for your support, and for all you do for animals.

    Sincerely,

    mike_sig_blue.gif<http://action.humanesociety.org/site/../images/content/pagebuilder/14359.gif>

    Mike Markarian
    President
    Humane Society Legislative Fund


    And yet..they support Michael Vicks and have stated he would make a great dog owner...the man never uttered one word of remorse after torturing so many of his fighting dogs..

    I thought non-profits were not permitted to pay for ads for any one candidate?



  2. #402
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    Really?? Americans don't know where their food comes from? How pathetic is that? But I wonder if that is true.

    Geez, Since we are a nation of fast food gobblers, you can't tell me people haven't seen the huge billboard for Chick fil-A (or however it's spelled) with a 3-D cow saying "eat more chicken".

    If they can't tell from that they are eating cows and chickens, then their reading comprehension skills are pretty darn poor.



  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    Really?? Americans don't know where their food comes from? How pathetic is that? But I wonder if that is true.

    Geez, Since we are a nation of fast food gobblers, you can't tell me people haven't seen the huge billboard for Chick fil-A (or however it's spelled) with a 3-D cow saying "eat more chicken".

    If they can't tell from that they are eating cows and chickens, then their reading comprehension skills are pretty darn poor.
    is that an assumption you would stake your farm on?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    is that an assumption you would stake your farm on?
    tell me it ain't so!



  5. #405
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    You need to get out more!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    Really?? Americans don't know where their food comes from? How pathetic is that? But I wonder if that is true.

    Geez, Since we are a nation of fast food gobblers, you can't tell me people haven't seen the huge billboard for Chick fil-A (or however it's spelled) with a 3-D cow saying "eat more chicken".

    If they can't tell from that they are eating cows and chickens, then their reading comprehension skills are pretty darn poor.
    Your example of Chick-fil-A points out that we can save the dairy cows with faces (who can also stand upright and paint signs) by eating more chicken breast sandwiches / wraps / nuggets <not %100 sure Chick-fil-A does nuggets>, but regardless NO FACES. And, if I am a kid I get some kind of toy / prize -- possibly stuffed biped literate dairy cow. Obviously, as a consumer I get that this is a joke, because when I go to McDonalds for a hamburger -- no dairy cows anywhere & NO FACES.

    I graduated from highschool in 1987. As a kid, we shopped at the base commissary, which was like a supermarket; and there was a butcher there who could cut a steak for you or whatever -- and they did it where you could see. My step dad's father owned and ran an IGA store in their Southern Ill town; he was the butcher, and he stood in the back "butchering" all day. (NOT Slaughtering, but working w/ the huge animal -- not sure if carcass is correct term). And, my grandma, knew well the Winn Dixie butcher who would pull the carcass out and carve your desired meat piece right out; and there were big posters w/ the outline of a cow and pig showing where the different cuts of meat came from. By the time I got my first job as a cashier at the new Winn Dixie in high school, the "meat dept. " people and managers did all the butchering behind the scenes -- you had to buzz to talk to them, and they would come out, go to the back, "make" desired meat, and resurface w/ your packaged meat. I don't think the commissaries and super WalMarts have butchers on staff; I think it's shipped in packaged; and I doubt the big pig and cow meat cut posters are prominently displayed.

    Go forth and verify.
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldaziens View Post
    Your example of Chick-fil-A points out that we can save the dairy cows with faces (who can also stand upright and paint signs) by eating more chicken breast sandwiches / wraps / nuggets <not %100 sure Chick-fil-A does nuggets>, but regardless NO FACES. And, if I am a kid I get some kind of toy / prize -- possibly stuffed biped literate dairy cow. Obviously, as a consumer I get that this is a joke, because when I go to McDonalds for a hamburger -- no dairy cows anywhere & NO FACES.

    I graduated from highschool in 1987. As a kid, we shopped at the base commissary, which was like a supermarket; and there was a butcher there who could cut a steak for you or whatever -- and they did it where you could see. My step dad's father owned and ran an IGA store in their Southern Ill town; he was the butcher, and he stood in the back "butchering" all day. (NOT Slaughtering, but working w/ the huge animal -- not sure if carcass is correct term). And, my grandma, knew well the Winn Dixie butcher who would pull the carcass out and carve your desired meat piece right out; and there were big posters w/ the outline of a cow and pig showing where the different cuts of meat came from. By the time I got my first job as a cashier at the new Winn Dixie in high school, the "meat dept. " people and managers did all the butchering behind the scenes -- you had to buzz to talk to them, and they would come out, go to the back, "make" desired meat, and resurface w/ your packaged meat. I don't think the commissaries and super WalMarts have butchers on staff; I think it's shipped in packaged; and I doubt the big pig and cow meat cut posters are prominently displayed.

    Go forth and verify.
    I have not seen a poster of that kind in eons.
    And the butcher has become a rarity, for sure.

    Add to that that many people live in 'food deserts', meaning they live nowhere near a grocery store....we are having a problem!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  8. #408
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    National Geographic had an article in the early 80's that stated, the family farm will dead in 25 years largely taken over by wealthy corporate interests. I didn't believe it but always kept the info in my head.

    So many children missing out on a stunning childhood. *sigh*



  9. #409
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    "Family farms" were feeding a few, the equivalent of mechanics making one car at the time in their shop behind their house.
    We would not have many cars to drive if we didn't have become a bit more efficient, would we.

    Don't lose sight that family farms would never have fed the 94 people per farmer we feed, clothe and provide energy for today.

    It takes all that can and will raise agricultural products to have enough for all in the near future, small and large, unless someone hurries up to invent a magic matter transforming box, to keep our societies humming along with those basic needs covered.



  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    ...
    Ignorance is easy to remedy, learn more.
    ...
    As a very young kid, one of my chores was taking care of the rabbits we raised, that once grown were sent to the local restaurant.
    Heck I had never been in that fancy restaurant, or any other, really, just heard that is where the rabbits went and how nice a place it was.

    I think I was in my teens, long after I was not caring for the rabbits any more, that I realized one day what the rabbits were doing in that restaurant, being the meat in some plate.
    What a surprise!

    All of us have stories like that, it is part of who we are, we learn thru our lives and the more we learn, the more we find to question, as our horizons expand.

    I think that the trick to our awareness of the world around us being realistic is where being a bit more interested in thinking thru more than just what is obvious or following thoughtlessly
    I think the real problem -- well one of them -- comes when we don't know we are ignorant on a subject.

    I love your rabbit story.

    I know that I can't count the times that - long after the fact, I'm like, "Ohhhhhhhhh... THAT'S what that meant". This has gotten exponentially more frequent as my hearing has sloooowly gotten worse plus I'm near sighted, so aside from being oblivious to stuff I actually do see &/or hear; now I'm actually missing stuff. I'm have been procrastinating on actually going in to find out how MUCH I am missing.

    It's funny, when I turned 21, I had no idea that that was the "smartest" I'd ever be. At 21 I knew EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING; and looked forward to building on that infinite wisdom -- unlike my parents and grandparents who were so obviously out of touch and clueless And, I have always been the Queen of learning things the HARD WAY -- that has not changed so much except that I do think I have gotten at least slightly better at realizing that perhaps I need to stop and reassess things. And thank God I can laugh at myself.

    So, yup, youth is youth.
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  11. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldaziens View Post
    I think the real problem -- well one of them -- comes when we don't know we are ignorant on a subject.

    I love your rabbit story.

    I know that I can't count the times that - long after the fact, I'm like, "Ohhhhhhhhh... THAT'S what that meant". This has gotten exponentially more frequent as my hearing has sloooowly gotten worse plus I'm near sighted, so aside from being oblivious to stuff I actually do see &/or hear; now I'm actually missing stuff. I'm have been procrastinating on actually going in to find out how MUCH I am missing.

    It's funny, when I turned 21, I had no idea that that was the "smartest" I'd ever be. At 21 I knew EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING; and looked forward to building on that infinite wisdom -- unlike my parents and grandparents who were so obviously out of touch and clueless And, I have always been the Queen of learning things the HARD WAY -- that has not changed so much except that I do think I have gotten at least slightly better at realizing that perhaps I need to stop and reassess things. And thank God I can laugh at myself.

    So, yup, youth is youth.
    And wasted on the young!!!!



  12. #412
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    Okay, I think this Fugly article exemplifies the concerns about animal rights idiots who present random nonsense as fact. I actually am very opposed to the Big Lick; and I know that I lean a little lefter and support a little stronger animal welfare guidelines than some here; and this article lit ME up like a Christmas Tree. I pasted the comment I submitted below, but I was hoping that more articulate and calmer minds might want to comment. I worry when people have to make up nonsense in order to write an article on a subject where plenty of legitimate facts exist for making the same argument.

    http://fuglyblog.com/2012/10/22/gues...comment-125533

    "That is the most non-coherant and completely ignorant article I can recall reading. It is, frankly, offensive and does absolutely nothing to support the fight against Big Lick.
    I have a rescued former Big Lick horse that I keep at home on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. I also believe in God, Gun Rights, and My Country. Many people might see my little farm and look down their nose at it — especially as we are still recovering from Isaac damage. And while my mare has registration papers, and, in fact was the Reserve Champion at the KY Celebration in the BIG LICK FREAK SHOW; I refuse to register her, because I will not send a dime to the TWHBEA. I would register her w/ the TWHBEA IF I had time / inclination to show her in non-Big Lick classes as well as the time to fight for change within the TWHBEA as the Preacher does.
    It is completely irresponsible to state that poor backyard owners of non-registered gaited TRAIL horses are the people responsible for the continuation of the Big Lick.
    Anyway, my little farm is redneck-y to be sure; but I would probably physically come to blows w/ the a$$hat that wrote that article if I caught them taking pictures of my place / horses and lumping ME in with the Big Lickers. That was truly one of the most ignorant things that I have ever read on Fugly.
    Now, a valid link, that Nathaniel Jackson can speak to, is the link to racism. And, the he could write an article that coherently articulates the facts on this issue — not some nonsense blaming poor people with trail horses for the Big Lick.
    As far as poor people & horses – Our local horse rescues in MS have had great success in reaching out to those who perhaps have not benefitted from the educational and financial opportunities that the snarkies have (though education is doubtful based on that article) – the rescues reach out in a kind and respectful way to offer gelding and vaccination clinics in poor areas as well as volunteering to help put up safer fencing.
    This article is on par with those claiming all of our societal ills are the fault of poor people and minorities — and could probably form a solid basis for a libel suit."
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  13. #413
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    Um WOW
    I can see why you're having a knee jerk reaction.
    If I read it right none of the horses pictured is a purebred TWH for starters.
    There is no indication by the pictures that these people are actually doing Big Lick.
    Are they the best representatives of "back yard breeders"??? No.
    They are breaking a very young horse - most would consider it a too young horse. All the horses look majorly on the thin side.
    On the one horse - doesn't look like there are even shoes on it - let alone anything else.
    Anything else I missed?



  14. #414
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    OOPS there was ONE TWH.



  15. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I thought non-profits were not permitted to pay for ads for any one candidate?
    So did I. But as i learned the hard way, in the end its all about politics. That's why I don't give to any non-profits anymore unless they are willing to take donations in kind.
    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by DottieHQ View Post
    You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.



  16. #416
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    I don't know if you are missing anything, because honestly, at a certain point I stopped reading and started skimming I could not bring myself to read through it again.

    Absolutely, I do not support riding young horses OR back yard breeding or neglecting in horses in any way. And, I am fanatically opposed to the Big Lick -- knowing my sweet sweet old mare was put through that $hit and now has the arthritis related to that freak show has made me absolutely steadfast in my belief that the Big Lick is evil.

    However, I probably should have said that I don't breed horses and my horses do not look like that -- though my TWH mare is a little on the thin side; but she has an awful time in the summer w/ the heat and has arthritis; so I didn't try too hard to fatten her up while it was hot. My vet also reminds me that she will never look like my gelding -- a draft cross air plant who is a little too chunky.

    It made me mad because not only is it just nonsensical; the writer really is offensive; but it also made me mad because the Big Lick supporters can print that right out and pass it around to demonstrate the idiocy of their enemies. If you told me it was written by a Big Lick supporter trolling, I'd believe it. And, regardless of how we feel about the (lack of) horsemanship demonstrated in the photos; those people are being libeled by being accused of supporting -- and being responsible for -- the Big Lick abuse. I'm assuming the people had ads on CL; and mocking them regarding their actual ad is one thing, which I think is the whole point of Fugly (which still rubs me the wrong way as the purpose is just to enjoy being mean and in no way helps the horses involved); but poaching the pictures and making up stories about the people in them crosses a line with me personally; and sure seems to meet the definition of libel.
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  17. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldaziens View Post
    Okay, I think this Fugly article exemplifies the concerns about animal rights idiots who present random nonsense as fact. I actually am very opposed to the Big Lick; and I know that I lean a little lefter and support a little stronger animal welfare guidelines than some here; and this article lit ME up like a Christmas Tree. I pasted the comment I submitted below, but I was hoping that more articulate and calmer minds might want to comment. I worry when people have to make up nonsense in order to write an article on a subject where plenty of legitimate facts exist for making the same argument.

    http://fuglyblog.com/2012/10/22/gues...comment-125533

    "That is the most non-coherant and completely ignorant article I can recall reading. It is, frankly, offensive and does absolutely nothing to support the fight against Big Lick.
    I have a rescued former Big Lick horse that I keep at home on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. I also believe in God, Gun Rights, and My Country. Many people might see my little farm and look down their nose at it — especially as we are still recovering from Isaac damage. And while my mare has registration papers, and, in fact was the Reserve Champion at the KY Celebration in the BIG LICK FREAK SHOW; I refuse to register her, because I will not send a dime to the TWHBEA. I would register her w/ the TWHBEA IF I had time / inclination to show her in non-Big Lick classes as well as the time to fight for change within the TWHBEA as the Preacher does.
    It is completely irresponsible to state that poor backyard owners of non-registered gaited TRAIL horses are the people responsible for the continuation of the Big Lick.
    Anyway, my little farm is redneck-y to be sure; but I would probably physically come to blows w/ the a$$hat that wrote that article if I caught them taking pictures of my place / horses and lumping ME in with the Big Lickers. That was truly one of the most ignorant things that I have ever read on Fugly.
    Now, a valid link, that Nathaniel Jackson can speak to, is the link to racism. And, the he could write an article that coherently articulates the facts on this issue — not some nonsense blaming poor people with trail horses for the Big Lick.
    As far as poor people & horses – Our local horse rescues in MS have had great success in reaching out to those who perhaps have not benefitted from the educational and financial opportunities that the snarkies have (though education is doubtful based on that article) – the rescues reach out in a kind and respectful way to offer gelding and vaccination clinics in poor areas as well as volunteering to help put up safer fencing.
    This article is on par with those claiming all of our societal ills are the fault of poor people and minorities — and could probably form a solid basis for a libel suit."
    I have to agree with you on that. I see no relation between the people depicted in those pictures and the big Lick movement. do I believe those horses have the best care? No, not being ridden at 16 months and looking underweight. But I fail to see what it has to do with the BL movement. I find this post full of assumptions and poorly constructed at best.
    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by DottieHQ View Post
    You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.



  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    Really?? Americans don't know where their food comes from? How pathetic is that? But I wonder if that is true.

    Geez, Since we are a nation of fast food gobblers, you can't tell me people haven't seen the huge billboard for Chick fil-A (or however it's spelled) with a 3-D cow saying "eat more chicken".

    If they can't tell from that they are eating cows and chickens, then their reading comprehension skills are pretty darn poor.
    Remember that we live in a nation where you can get a high school diploma as long as you can read and cypher on an 8th grade level.

    My wife is an MD and her university level Family Practice clinic has twice over the past few years had to "dumb down" the routine instructions given patients. She noted that a recent survey put average reading comprehension of their patient base at just over the 7th grade level.

    Our educational system has failed, dramatically, over the past couple of decades. We seem to have come to a point where kids get educated in spite of the system, not because of it. This failure shows up again and again and again.

    G.
    Mangalarga Marchador: Uma Raça, Uma Paixão



  19. #419
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guilherme View Post
    Remember that we live in a nation where you can get a high school diploma as long as you can read and cypher on an 8th grade level.

    My wife is an MD and her university level Family Practice clinic has twice over the past few years had to "dumb down" the routine instructions given patients. She noted that a recent survey put average reading comprehension of their patient base at just over the 7th grade level.

    Our educational system has failed, dramatically, over the past couple of decades. We seem to have come to a point where kids get educated in spite of the system, not because of it. This failure shows up again and again and again.

    G.
    Read and weep:

    http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...e-us-democracy

    It is not only animal rights extremists that are gaining important footholds with their illogical premises about the nature of all animals, including the human one and our place in this world.
    Seems that, with the bounty of more humans and so more that can and have advanced knowledge, we also have more that can't comprehend the world around them and will follow any one Pied Piper that does the thinking for them and pulls the right emotional strings.

    Doesn't look good for us, that understand the symbiotic relationship all have in this world, that include our already well regulated thru laws proper use of other animals, including our horses.



  20. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlterNetReality View Post
    Would that make them Sinn Fern?
    OK, this is freaking hysterical.
    VP Horse & Carriage Association of NYC

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-F...ref=ts&fref=ts



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