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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by millerra View Post
    Actually, ALL products containing peanuts are banned from my kids' elementary. Since I don't want MY kid's lunch or snack to cause problems, they don't bring anything to school w/ peanuts, including the classic PBJ and snack bars that may contain peanuts. you'd be surprised, perhaps, at how many prepared "healthy" foods have peanuts...

    I do consider it a matter of public health.
    They take it a bit further where you are then, I've not heard of that here. Of course I've got no children in elementary school or otherwise so maybe the schools in my area do have those rules now...anyway though, I do see and completely understand the concern. I work for a university so the "kids" are plenty old enough to understand their allergies and how to deal with them (although the one kid with the peanut allergy who kept trying to eat the gluten-free peanut butter cookies last year, three times he did it, really had me scratching my head).

    Even if prepared foods don't actually have peanuts or other allergens in them they may have been processed in a facility that does prepare foods containing nuts. I feel for people with those allergies, I really do. So much to have to avoid when it comes to prepared foods and all it takes is one careless person in the kitchen to give them a really, really bad day. Seen it happen before

    At the end of the day though it won't kill school kids to not have peanut butter sandwiches or fish sticks for lunch. There are other foods out there.

    People with gluten allergies, now those are a really tough one to deal with. My bakery is from-scratch so TONS of flour (literally, I go through about one ton a week). That stuff gets *everywhere*. Every Saturday night a cleaning crew comes in and cleans my shop from top to bottom, Sunday morning I clean it again and then I make the gluten-free items for the week to be stored in a separate freezer to be pulled out as needed. It's the only way I can be sure I won't get anyone sick. Everyone manages to survive one day without fresh-baked bread in the morning and I fail to see how it infringes on anyone's rights.



  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    Nor should your rights trump theirs.

    It may be safer that way - especially for little kids - they may not exactly understand or know all the things they are allergic to and eat it unknowingly. Might be easier for the teacher as well -then they don't have to deal with it at all.
    September 30, 2012
    U.S. HORSEMEAT – NO THANKS!
    If you eat horsemeat from the U.S. you might as well be eating a rat out of the dumpster and hope that it hasn’t eaten anything toxic recently. Actually the rat is probably safer to eat! Rats aren’t given all the medications and treatments that U.S. horses are given. The probability of an adulterated rat would be much less likely than a horse from the...U.S.!
    Horses in the U.S. are not regulated food animals, aren’t bred and raised for ‘food’ or slaughter and the regulatory authorities don’t have any regulations pertaining to the wholesomeness of horses exported for slaughter. There is no difference between a ‘slaughter’ horse or any other U.S. horse. When some horse owners are done with their horses, they want to dump them in the horse slaughter system and get paid for their garbage, so they are sold to a horse slaughter dealer and designated as ‘slaughter horses’. The horse slaughter cartel in the U.S. keeps asking “what will we do with all the unwanted horses” or rats as the case may be. They don’t care that someone may be eating their toxic garbage!
    No drug history is required or maintained for horses in the U.S. and the majority of horse owners have no clue what is or isn’t allowed for food animals because we don’t breed and raise horses as food animals in the U.S. Almost everything that is commonly used for horses in the U.S. is labeled ‘not intended to be used for food animals’. You could walk into almost any barn in the U.S. and find E.U. prohibited food animal medications that have NO withdrawal time frame. You may not have an immediate reaction as some of these drugs accumulate over time before they do damage or perhaps you may get ‘high’ if you eat a horse that was given the recent new trend – frog juice!
    Ah yes, but some claim they are tested and screened for drugs. There is absolutely no confidence level in U.S. horsemeat based on the so few that are tested for drug residues. To obtain any safety confidence level for drug residues of U.S. horses, each and every one would have to be tested because they aren’t bred and raised under any food animal regulations, the owners have no knowledge of food animal regulations, and they don’t test for ‘frog juice’ or many of the other drugs that are commonly or uncommonly used on horses here.
    It would be safer to eat a rat out of the dumpster than to eat U.S. horsemeat!



  3. #183
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    How about the young lad who is violently allergic to hairspray, deodorant, foot spray etc. His parents are suing the Portland Oregon school board as they will not guaranty that NONE of those products will not come into the PUBLIC school.

    If a school is willing to set up a separate eating room...that is all that needs to be available. TOUGH if the kid wants to just eat with his friends. Peanut butter is a cheap source of protein for many kids whose parents are struggling to even provide that in a sandwhich.

    Echo...with her ongoing guilt trip over selling her horses to someone who ONLY MAY HAVE SOLD THEM TO SLAUGHTER...she has absolutely no proof...is a living example of someone to fear.

    She has a personal vendetta against breeders, owners, transporters, and anyone in the industry and she will only feel "good about herself" when she has reduced everyone to her level..and she is allowed to lead the parade.

    So much about a non issue. So few horses in the U.S.A. end up on anyones table in the U.S. and if they do, I am sure the specialty butcher is very aware of their history so her posts on only PETA and HSUS at their most vile.

    These are the people we used to ignore as kooks. Now they are attempting to influence mainstream America with their ridiculous propoganda.

    Have you ever noticed individuals such as Jenm and Echo NEVER print their names? These are the same people who demand transparency from others and want to deny all of us OUR RIGHTS while they, like the wizard, hide behind the curtain.

    Over the years, on a variety of forums, these individuals have come and gone. When others find out who they are, they suddenly disappear and come back with a new avatar and falsified information for moderators. They are all coached as to how to create a false IP address.

    They hate those (who they can name) from United Horsemen but they, will never print their own names for accountability.

    Under normal circumstances these individuals would just be ignored...but that no longer works and they have caused damage...but now the livestock producers and horse breeders are becoming informed and involved.



  4. #184
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    "United Horseman"? Talk about names.....
    http://canadianhorsedefencecoalition...-its-deadline/

    In the meantime, we have been watching what is happening at Horse Welfare Alliance of Canada (HWAC), Canada’s dichotomous pro-slaughter “horse welfare” group, chaired by Bill desBarres. HWAC has partnered with Animal ID Solutions Inc., and has been promoting their alliance, as stated in this November 2011 news release from HWAC and their U.S. partner, International Equine Business Association (IEBA) (formerly United Horsemen of the U.S.), headed by well-known U.S. pro-slaughter proponent, Sue Wallis.
    They know that 67% of horses slaughtered in Canada in 2011 were from the U.S. So HWAC can also benefit hugely if funding is provided to build this program.

    It would be an immense win-win for Bill desBarres and Sue Wallis – ensure Canada meets its traceability obligations with the EU, sustain and grow North America’s horse slaughter industry AND partner with AAFC and potentially receive an input of millions of Canadian tax-payer dollars. Horse slaughter could be very lucrative to these crafty pro-slaughter partners.
    United States Veterinarians aren't even required to keep medical history for animals indefinately - typically a couple years. Every U.S. horse should be considered adulterated - unwholesome - for human consumption.



  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Have you ever noticed individuals such as Jenm and Echo NEVER print their names? These are the same people who demand transparency from others and want to deny all of us OUR RIGHTS while they, like the wizard, hide behind the curtain.
    Oh puhleeze. Just because you have stated that "Everyone in the world knows that I am Leo Maxwell" (insert wildly rolling eyes) doesn't mean that *anyone* is obligated to divulge their identity on a public internet forum.

    In addition, most Americans would probably agree that we don't need a Canadian telling us how to protect "OUR RIGHTS"

    Instructions for Fairfax: Take pin, insert in forehead, deflate.



  6. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abercrombie View Post
    Instructions for Fairfax: Take pin, insert in forehead, deflate.
    Where is the rolling on the floor smilie?

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  7. #187
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    Hmm this apparently in Times Square - but nobody's paying attention.

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...&type=1&ref=nf



  8. #188
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    Let's take a moment or two to thank some of these activists, animal and environmental, for all of the good things that they have accomplished. As far as I know, no rivers have burned for more than 40-50 years. No more lead paint. Far less air and land pollution. The national park system. The Clean Air Act. Reclaiming the Everglades. The Endangered Species acts. Preserving some of the redwood forests. Replanting forests and land disrupted by logging and/or mining.

    Thanks to the groups who saw those last several hundred bison--all that were left from the millions here prior--and decided to save and nurture them. Thanks to the various zoos and organizations who have brought back the whooping crane and the California condor from the brink of extinction.

    I'll personally thank the groups that have protected nesting grounds of sea turtles, protected the manatee, and made shrimp nets more turtle and other incidental catch far less deadly than they were. Thanks also for the groups that lobbied and partially succeeded in requiring tuna fishermen to use more dolphin safe methods.

    No more downer cows shoved around with backhoes. Far more humane methods of slaughtering commercial animals than before. More supervision and rules about the use of pesticides on plants or drugs in livestock.

    The entire community needs at least some of these animal welfare or enviromental groups (not necessarily the most radical) to keep tabs on what is being done and to be the conscience of us all, to make sure that the commercial interests do not merely take without giving back or conserving our native resources, or do not cause undue stress with raising, transporting, or slaughtering our livestock.

    Perhaps they are symbiotes of each other and each side needs the other to exist and succeed.



  9. #189
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    Some excellent points.

    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    Let's take a moment or two to thank some of these activists, animal and environmental, for all of the good things that they have accomplished. As far as I know, no rivers have burned for more than 40-50 years. No more lead paint. Far less air and land pollution. The national park system. The Clean Air Act. Reclaiming the Everglades. The Endangered Species acts. Preserving some of the redwood forests. Replanting forests and land disrupted by logging and/or mining.

    Thanks to the groups who saw those last several hundred bison--all that were left from the millions here prior--and decided to save and nurture them. Thanks to the various zoos and organizations who have brought back the whooping crane and the California condor from the brink of extinction.

    I'll personally thank the groups that have protected nesting grounds of sea turtles, protected the manatee, and made shrimp nets more turtle and other incidental catch far less deadly than they were. Thanks also for the groups that lobbied and partially succeeded in requiring tuna fishermen to use more dolphin safe methods.

    No more downer cows shoved around with backhoes. Far more humane methods of slaughtering commercial animals than before. More supervision and rules about the use of pesticides on plants or drugs in livestock.

    The entire community needs at least some of these animal welfare or enviromental groups (not necessarily the most radical) to keep tabs on what is being done and to be the conscience of us all, to make sure that the commercial interests do not merely take without giving back or conserving our native resources, or do not cause undue stress with raising, transporting, or slaughtering our livestock.

    Perhaps they are symbiotes of each other and each side needs the other to exist and succeed.



  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    Let's take a moment or two to thank some of these activists, animal and environmental, for all of the good things that they have accomplished. As far as I know, no rivers have burned for more than 40-50 years. No more lead paint. Far less air and land pollution. The national park system. The Clean Air Act. Reclaiming the Everglades. The Endangered Species acts. Preserving some of the redwood forests. Replanting forests and land disrupted by logging and/or mining.

    Thanks to the groups who saw those last several hundred bison--all that were left from the millions here prior--and decided to save and nurture them. Thanks to the various zoos and organizations who have brought back the whooping crane and the California condor from the brink of extinction.

    I'll personally thank the groups that have protected nesting grounds of sea turtles, protected the manatee, and made shrimp nets more turtle and other incidental catch far less deadly than they were. Thanks also for the groups that lobbied and partially succeeded in requiring tuna fishermen to use more dolphin safe methods.

    No more downer cows shoved around with backhoes. Far more humane methods of slaughtering commercial animals than before. More supervision and rules about the use of pesticides on plants or drugs in livestock.

    The entire community needs at least some of these animal welfare or enviromental groups (not necessarily the most radical) to keep tabs on what is being done and to be the conscience of us all, to make sure that the commercial interests do not merely take without giving back or conserving our native resources, or do not cause undue stress with raising, transporting, or slaughtering our livestock.

    Perhaps they are symbiotes of each other and each side needs the other to exist and succeed.
    +



  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abercrombie View Post
    Oh puhleeze. Just because you have stated that "Everyone in the world knows that I am Leo Maxwell" (insert wildly rolling eyes) doesn't mean that *anyone* is obligated to divulge their identity on a public internet forum.

    In addition, most Americans would probably agree that we don't need a Canadian telling us how to protect "OUR RIGHTS"

    Instructions for Fairfax: Take pin, insert in forehead, deflate.
    Already covered when the "gal" demanded I post a copy of my dual citizenship AND proof I had American property. Of course I refused..

    Then perhaps these others should not post OR they should not demand any form of transparency



  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Where is the rolling on the floor smilie?
    Next to the head up the butt icon



  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo View Post
    "United Horseman"? Talk about names.....
    http://canadianhorsedefencecoalition...-its-deadline/




    United States Veterinarians aren't even required to keep medical history for animals indefinately - typically a couple years. Every U.S. horse should be considered adulterated - unwholesome - for human consumption.
    Canadian Defence League...HSUS sponsored through transfer of funds to the Canadian Humane Society based out of Montreal.



  14. #194
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    Let's take a moment or two to thank some of these activists, animal and environmental, for all of the good things that they have accomplished. As far as I know, no rivers have burned for more than 40-50 years. No more lead paint. Far less air and land pollution. The national park system. The Clean Air Act. Reclaiming the Everglades. The Endangered Species acts. Preserving some of the redwood forests. Replanting forests and land disrupted by logging and/or mining.

    Thanks to the groups who saw those last several hundred bison--all that were left from the millions here prior--and decided to save and nurture them. Thanks to the various zoos and organizations who have brought back the whooping crane and the California condor from the brink of extinction.

    I'll personally thank the groups that have protected nesting grounds of sea turtles, protected the manatee, and made shrimp nets more turtle and other incidental catch far less deadly than they were. Thanks also for the groups that lobbied and partially succeeded in requiring tuna fishermen to use more dolphin safe methods.

    No more downer cows shoved around with backhoes. Far more humane methods of slaughtering commercial animals than before. More supervision and rules about the use of pesticides on plants or drugs in livestock.

    The entire community needs at least some of these animal welfare or enviromental groups (not necessarily the most radical) to keep tabs on what is being done and to be the conscience of us all, to make sure that the commercial interests do not merely take without giving back or conserving our native resources, or do not cause undue stress with raising, transporting, or slaughtering our livestock.

    Perhaps they are symbiotes of each other and each side needs the other to exist and succeed.
    What a way to rewrite history.

    How about all those of us that just did the right thing because it was the right thing to do, not because some bushy tailed bright eyed city dweller thought it was a good idea to spend their idle time protesting over?

    Example, we have been a wildlife preserve since 1957, long before it was the PC thing bandwagon to jump on, on our own penny, no grandiose proclamations and hands out for donations, quietly working with those that really know, including the government wildlife agencies.

    Of course, we don't keep putting propaganda out there about how good we are and how much "we" accomplish, to further other agendas, as the animal rights extremist groups do wanting credit for animal welfare and such other of those groups do.

    Ever heard of the "nature conservancy"?
    That is another one that loves to put out infomercials as "documentaries" showing how great they are.
    Check their very questionable land swaps with the government.

    So much that is better today in all we do is because, well, all of us doing what we do have found better ways to do things.
    that is what government regulators do.
    All of us, no matter what we do, we want to do the best we can and protect our resources, not because someone far away was demanding we do so as their cause of the moment, but because we like to do what we do right and don't like those that don't.

    Sure, give credit where credit is due, just don't fall for so much inflated self back patting that goes out there.



  15. #195
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    There are approximately 500,000 bison in captive commercial populations (mostly plains bison) on about 4,000 privately owned ranches. [20] Under the IUCN Red List Guidelines, commercial herds are not eligible for consideration in determining a Red List designation, therefore the total population of bison calculated in conservation herds is approximately 30,000 individuals and the mature population consists of approximately 20,000 individuals. Of the total number presented, only 15,000 total individuals are considered wild bison in the natural range within North America (free-ranging, not confined primarily by fencing).[21]

    Head Smashed in Buffalo Jump is a National Heritage site where INDIANS ran WHOLE HERDS of TEN THOUSAND or more bison over the cliffs. They only harvested the choice meat cuts and hides and let wolves clean up the rest.

    Both sides were responsible with the demise...But NO ANIMAL RIGHTS group has ever given money...that I can fine...to any conservation group...which is NOT animals welfare...different mandate



  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    How about all those of us that just did the right thing because it was the right thing to do, not because some bushy tailed bright eyed city dweller thought it was a good idea to spend their idle time protesting over?
    Just because the majority are doing right by their animals, doesn't excuse us to ignore those who don't, and haven't for decades.
    You may be able to live with that and sleep well at night, but those truely concerned with animal welfare are not the type to ignore abuse or even condone it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Of course, we don't keep putting propaganda out there about how good we are and how much "we" accomplish
    You have NEVER mentioned anything good you have personally done to assist in animal welfare issues. All you ever do is complain how anyone actually addressing those issues is interfering with YOUR rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    So much that is better today in all we do is because, well, all of us doing what we do have found better ways to do things.
    You just keep telling yourself that.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  17. #197
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    I'm not sure how you can actually believe that - we've gone out of our way to kill so many animals.
    Protect our resources??? Every time I turn around we've cut down another tree or bulldozed another farm all in the name of progress.
    The family farm is virtually gone - we are force fed alot of GMO products. Better?? WOW

    Bluey:So much that is better today in all we do is because, well, all of us doing what we do have found better ways to do things.
    that is what government regulators do.
    All of us, no matter what we do, we want to do the best we can and protect our resources, not because someone far away was demanding we do so as their cause of the moment, but because we like to do what we do right and don't like those that don't.



  18. #198
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    Fairfax:

    If I remember my history correctly, all but 100 or so bison were exterminated by the U.S. goverment and other hunters in a last ditch effort to "control" the Native American population. I believe it may have been the New York Zoological Society that brought them back from the brink of extinction. A group of bright-eyed, bushy tailed city dwellers, perhaps?

    Now, I currently live in Florida. In the early 20th century there was a huge movement to drain the Everglades. A lady named Marjorie Carr spearheaded a group of activists to stop this. I guess that you could call her a bright eyed, bushy tailed city dweller, and I'm sure all of the developers called her worse names, but her activism succeeded--and we all thank her. Guess it all depends on what side of the fence you are on.

    Years ago there was a huge controversy concerning shrimpers whose nets also caught huge quantities of sea turtles and other miscellaneous fish along with the shrimp, all of which died or were discarded in favor of the shrimp. A better net with an escape hatch was developed and my God, you'd have thought that it was developed by the devil himself, that it was going to put every shrimper out of business, etc., etc. After years of using this new net, everyone still eats shrimp, and it does cut down on the turtle deaths and the bycatch problem.

    A question of bright eyed, ignorant, busy tailed city dwellers versus the hardworking (yet very wasteful) fisherman who was only trying to make a living?



  19. #199
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I'm not sure how you can actually believe that - we've gone out of our way to kill so many animals.
    Protect our resources??? Every time I turn around we've cut down another tree or bulldozed another farm all in the name of progress.
    The family farm is virtually gone - we are force fed alot of GMO products. Better?? WOW

    Bluey:So much that is better today in all we do is because, well, all of us doing what we do have found better ways to do things.
    that is what government regulators do.
    All of us, no matter what we do, we want to do the best we can and protect our resources, not because someone far away was demanding we do so as their cause of the moment, but because we like to do what we do right and don't like those that don't.
    That just shows lack of perspective, first world perceived problems clouding reality, like complaining about farmers with your belly full, stores in every corner and clothes on your back.

    Too much glass half empty media, forgetting to even that with the real half glass full so much is in our world today and getting better and better for more and more of us, if we just care to look around.



  20. #200
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    Fairfax:

    If I remember my history correctly, all but 100 or so bison were exterminated by the U.S. goverment and other hunters in a last ditch effort to "control" the Native American population. I believe it may have been the New York Zoological Society that brought them back from the brink of extinction. A group of bright-eyed, bushy tailed city dwellers, perhaps?

    Now, I currently live in Florida. In the early 20th century there was a huge movement to drain the Everglades. A lady named Marjorie Carr spearheaded a group of activists to stop this. I guess that you could call her a bright eyed, bushy tailed city dweller, and I'm sure all of the developers called her worse names, but her activism succeeded--and we all thank her. Guess it all depends on what side of the fence you are on.

    Years ago there was a huge controversy concerning shrimpers whose nets also caught huge quantities of sea turtles and other miscellaneous fish along with the shrimp, all of which died or were discarded in favor of the shrimp. A better net with an escape hatch was developed and my God, you'd have thought that it was developed by the devil himself, that it was going to put every shrimper out of business, etc., etc. After years of using this new net, everyone still eats shrimp, and it does cut down on the turtle deaths and the bycatch problem.

    A question of bright eyed, ignorant, busy tailed city dwellers versus the hardworking (yet very wasteful) fisherman who was only trying to make a living?
    Wrong.
    Many ranchers here and there kept buffalo all along, one right in our area, Charles Goodnight.
    They still have some down there today, last I heard.

    Yes, the native indians used to run the herds around, cut a bunch out and drive them off the cliffs right where I live.
    We still find the buffalo bones, skulls and other, in the bottom, have one in my living room.

    What many don't seem to know today is that native indians were herding their buffalo all along, driving the herds here and there, away from the neighbor's, into the lands they claimed, with raids and starting wildfires.

    Ever wonder why we have "great plains" at all, why there are no "great forest" there, as the natural progression of plant species indicate the first settlers from Europe should have found there?
    Well, the native indians were keeping them as grass lands by their management, by grazing and burning, just as so many do today there.

    There is much to history that didn't seem to have made the books of those that want to hear only what they want to hear.



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