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  1. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You really believe the HSUS doesn't has an interest in all those topics and helps where help is needed to further them, as in the guardianship voting in CO lately and so many other out there lobbying?

    You know, the HSUS has been realizing they could not really show how extreme they are, so the past few years have done much PR and toned it down, but a tiger by any name still has stripes.

    I can't believe anyone that supposedly has animals and comes to a horse training forum thinks it can defend animal rights extremists.
    There is a great disconnect there.
    The disconnect is that YOU repeatedly confuse animal rights with animal welfare. As demonstrated here on this bulletin board countless times (and I mean countless) calling fellow animal owners animal rights extremists. YOU even called me a RARA, someone who actually farms and was raised on farm owned by my family for 5 generations since they came over on the boat. How in hell am I supposed to take you seriously? Or believe your selected drivel/propaganda.

    I can't,you've crossed the line with being an extremist yourself. Your opinion is clouded by an agenda. Not unlike the people you rail against.

    ETA how is THAT for critical thinking!



  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You know, the HSUS has been realizing they could not really show how extreme they are, so the past few years have done much PR and toned it down, but a tiger by any name still has stripes.

    .
    The problem is that you think anything with fur is a Tiger. You think that anyone that supports ANY issue, that HSUS supports is an animal rights extremist. (Not an activist, but an extremist). That shows how far your disconnect is to what a true animal rights extremist is.



  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    The disconnect is that YOU repeatedly confuse animal rights with animal welfare. As demonstrated here on this bulletin board countless times (and I mean countless) calling fellow animal owners animal rights extremists. YOU even called me a RARA, someone who actually farms and was raised on farm owned by my family for 5 generations since they came over on the boat. How in hell am I supposed to take you seriously? Or believe your selected drivel/propaganda.
    Echo. I have the posters that assume I am a RARA because I support animal welfare on ignore for precisely this reason. BTDT



  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    In some ways yes in some ways no it isn't.
    Not even touching China
    I read the labels on food. Instead of asking where's the beef you can now ask where's the food. Or better yet.. what the he@@ is that?
    But those chemicals have nothing to do with the original topic.
    What the processor tossed in the vat is not equivalent with bad animal husbandry.

    Separate issue. (I don't disagree with you, but it's a different topic)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    The disconnect is that YOU repeatedly confuse animal rights with animal welfare. As demonstrated here on this bulletin board countless times (and I mean countless) calling fellow animal owners animal rights extremists. YOU even called me a RARA, someone who actually farms and was raised on farm owned by my family for 5 generations since they came over on the boat. How in hell am I supposed to take you seriously? Or believe your selected drivel/propaganda.

    I can't,you've crossed the line with being an extremist yourself. Your opinion is clouded by an agenda. Not unlike the people you rail against.

    ETA how is THAT for critical thinking!
    I think the correct term fo people who fail to make the connection is 'usefull idiot'
    And as I have been told, that is the term the Mother Ship uses (aka PETA and HSUS)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  6. #266
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    True. I have more issues with the middleman than the actual farmer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    But those chemicals have nothing to do with the original topic.
    What the processor tossed in the vat is not equivalent with bad animal husbandry.

    Separate issue. (I don't disagree with you, but it's a different topic)



  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    I think the correct term fo people who fail to make the connection is 'usefull idiot'
    And as I have been told, that is the term the Mother Ship uses (aka PETA and HSUS)
    An example of "if you run out of arguments or facts, call names."



  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    I think the correct term fo people who fail to make the connection is 'usefull idiot'
    And as I have been told, that is the term the Mother Ship uses (aka PETA and HSUS)
    Huh? You call me an idiot? Where is my tin foil hat?

    Jeez you people are not ready for a brave new world. Thank goodness you'll be dead as well as all your animals so you won't have to suffer through. The future is not yours. Really glad it's not mine.



  9. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    I agree about ARA. But there are those on here, that feel that supporting banning any act like soring TWH or horse slaughter for human consumption, makes you an ARA. I disagree with that. And I don't think that banning those two things, will result in us losing our animals. The fear of ARA's is making it harder to write laws banning truly abusive practices. And while I recognize that some people are ok with horse slaughter as it is currently practiced, being against it does not make someone an ARA.

    There are lots of issues, like dog fighting, canned hunts, horse tripping, horse slaughter for human consumption etc, that many people feel ARE abusive. But the people that find them abusive are not necessarily ARA's. It has become customary that instead of accepting that some people have the opinion that they are abusive, they want to label them as ARA's to try to diminish their opinion and denigrate them, in spite of them owning animals, riding, wearing leather and eating meat. Or they label them RARA's which is even more of an insult since a true RARA will use terroristic acts like violence, or letting animals loose.

    While you don't want to support AR agendas, it is also wrong to ignore abuse, misrepresent laws written to prevent abuse (like the legislation to prevent soring which is specific to TWH's), and call people names, just because they support banning an abusive act that you may be ok with.

    I'd be curious to know what issues those posting on this thread feel were wrong to be made illegal/or wrong to have people trying to make them illegal...dog fighting? cockfighting? horse tripping? canned hunts? gestation crates? cages for poultry where they can stand up and turn around? If you support banning even one of those issues, then you have no right to call someone an ARA that supports a ban on something else they consider abusive, if it doesn't involve losing the right to own animals, because that is the goal of an ARA. There are even people that don't think it is right to have carriage horses in Central park, that aren't ARA's. THey are ok with them elsewhere but object to having them on the city streets there. I may not agree, but that doesn't make them ARA's. (I mean do you really think Georgina Bloomberg and that other BN rider are ARA's, who want animal ownership banned?) they may not agree with your stance on the issue, but they aren't ARA's.
    BRAVO. Well said.



  10. #270
    Bluey is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    The disconnect is that YOU repeatedly confuse animal rights with animal welfare. As demonstrated here on this bulletin board countless times (and I mean countless) calling fellow animal owners animal rights extremists. YOU even called me a RARA, someone who actually farms and was raised on farm owned by my family for 5 generations since they came over on the boat. How in hell am I supposed to take you seriously? Or believe your selected drivel/propaganda.

    I can't,you've crossed the line with being an extremist yourself. Your opinion is clouded by an agenda. Not unlike the people you rail against.

    ETA how is THAT for critical thinking!
    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    The problem is that you think anything with fur is a Tiger. You think that anyone that supports ANY issue, that HSUS supports is an animal rights extremist. (Not an activist, but an extremist). That shows how far your disconnect is to what a true animal rights extremist is.
    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Huh? You call me an idiot? Where is my tin foil hat?

    Jeez you people are not ready for a brave new world. Thank goodness you'll be dead as well as all your animals so you won't have to suffer through. The future is not yours. Really glad it's not mine.


    Present irrefutable evidence in the OP article and so many others you can find out there of what those animal rights extremist groups are, their agendas and how they operate and guess what, the regular customers of their propaganda can't do more than make lots of irrelevant noise and yell "not true, everyone else is wrong, we the true believers know!"

    Ok, who here is wearing tin foil hats, you think?

    Yes, this would be very funny, if it was not such a serious subject, our rights to own and use animals hanging on the balance.

    As for those that cry "we are all for welfare, not following animal rights extremist agendas!"
    Please, if you really want others to believe that, easy, just don't follow their agendas as you so obviously do.
    Use some common sense for once.
    Learn to make a difference in what is really animal welfare and what is one more stepping stone to eliminate all animal uses, one at the time, following blindly what animal rights extremists do, using the by now very tired abuse card.



  11. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Huh? You call me an idiot? Where is my tin foil hat?

    Jeez you people are not ready for a brave new world. Thank goodness you'll be dead as well as all your animals so you won't have to suffer through. The future is not yours. Really glad it's not mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    An example of "if you run out of arguments or facts, call names."

    OH EM GEE she called us names!!!11!!eleven!!11!!

    You missed the little segment where the much beloved organizations themselves call the wellmeaning but ignorant people who further their cause, thinking they are working 'welfare' when they are not, such lovely descriptive monicers.

    However, as I threw the term out as it has been done before, you ladies are eager to slip that shoe on your foot.
    I suppose if it fits, you are welcome to wear it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  12. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post

    Present irrefutable evidence in the OP article and so many others you can find out there of what those animal rights extremist groups are, their agendas and how they operate and guess what, the regular customers of their propaganda can't do more than make lots of irrelevant noise and yell "not true, everyone else is wrong, we the true believers know!"
    Why don't YOU present irrefutable evidence to support YOUR claim.

    You have been asked to do so before, but you conveniently ignore any such requests.

    And please don't cite any of the Berman clan's opinions. They are opinions, not facts.
    Just like your wash, rinse, repeat extremist bla-bla-bla........

    ************************
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  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    The HSUS is not the batch of nutjobs some make them out to be.

    If it wasn't for work of the HSUS, the American public wouldn't have the awareness it does today of the huge problem of dogfigthing. HSUS was the whistleblower a couple times on slaughterhouses dragging downed cows into the kill room to be used in the *human* food supply. HSUS is also one of the few national voices the horses have against problems such as soring.

    Don't buy into the factory-farmer's propaganda. The HSUS is not out to steal your animals and give them voting rights and dress them in human clothing. That's insane.

    Do keep in mind there is a strong ($$$) drive to keep the distrust against HSUS and related groups. Who benefits if HSUS dies? Factory-farmers, fur ranches, puppy mills, poor quality zoos, and other sources of concern for anyone who has any compassion for animals. Follow the money. Follow who is funding the supposed "Humane Watch", a fake so-called watchdog group, funded by Center for Consumer Freedom. The CCF is in turn funded by big ag interests. CCF is also the group that fought against MADD to keep liquor less regulated and fought against health advocates to keep tobacco regulated. Are these really the people who should be speaking for what the public wants in the way of basic animal welfare?

    Before you buy into the hateful stories about the HSUS, please read StopHumaneWatch. See where much of these press releases are really coming from before you buy into it.
    http://humanewatch.info/blog/about-hsus/

    And as someone who works every day in the equine welfare business, I can tell you that HSUS is not out to steal your horses. They've been a wonderful resource to independent animal rescues/shelters nationwide. I've been to one of the conferences they organized, and it was a wonderful learning opportunity. They're the national voice all the little shelters/rescues/sanctuaries need in Washington. Independently we're all little local organizations. We cannot fight the big $$$ lobbyists at the national level without help. There is a lot of money involved in keeping horse abuse legal. If we let the bad rumor mill divide us and turn us against other equine welfare causes, the bad guys win.
    Of course you believe in the value of HSUS. Did Stacey write this for you, or just give it to you as a press release.

    Maryland...home of Equiery, and Maryland Horse Council...both in the same building and work together. DEFHR --horse seizure I mean rescue...sits on the council board...and low and behold Stacey is listed in a lawsuit for telling a county to seize horses "as it would be a great training opportunity for her "equine rescue team" and with the press their organization (HSUS) will be able to raise a lot of money in charitable donations.

    Nothing "fake" about Humane Watch. Not only does he list who he is but also his roll on behalf of Agri Business and food interests. It is HSUS and its followers that repeat the lie that HE is hiding HIS agenda.

    Funny that Humane Watch does NOT HIDE their donations especially from George Soro's foundations i.e. Tide and Melon that give to HSUS and don't forget the HSUS lawyer who sits on the Presidential advisory board. Coincidence? Not on your life.

    If this doesn't open your eyes nothing will
    http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/ecoterrorism.asp



  14. #274
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    One of ECHO's favourite groups;;;Animal Defence League ;;;she takes many quotes from them

    Vlasak, who is a member of the Animal Defense League, a radical animal rights group that carries out various direct actions, including home demonstrations, also reportedly said, "I don't think you'd have to kill too many. I think for five lives, 10 lives, 15 human lives, we could save a million, 2 million, 10 million non-human lives." Although he was not allowed to attend the conference, Vlasak addressed the gathering via video link.


    March 2005: Peter Daniel Young, an animal rights activist wanted for allegedly releasing thousand of animals from Wisconsin fur farms in 1997, was arrested in California. Young, 27, had been a fugitive for over seven years when he was arrested in San Jose for shoplifting at a Starbucks. Authorities say Young broke into three Wisconsin fur farms, releasing thousands of animals and causing more than $200,000 in damages. The Animal Liberation Front claimed responsibility for the releases.



    Terrorism in the name of animal and environmental protection has steadily increased during the past decade in the United States. Automobile dealerships, forestry companies, corporate and university-based medical research laboratories, restaurants, medical-supply firms, fur farms and other industries continue to be targeted. Although no one has yet been injured in a domestic ecoterror attack, the increasingly violent nature of attacks suggests that someone will be hurt before long.

    In a statement before the Senate Judiciary Committee in May 2004, John E. Lewis of the FBI's Counterterrorism Division noted the "upswing in violent rhetoric and tactics" among ecoterrorists and said that in recent years ALF and ELF "have become the most active criminal extremist elements in the United States."



    Alex Epstein quotes follow:

    Millions of humans would suffer and die unnecessarily if animal testing were prohibited. Animal rights activists know this, but are unmoved. Chris DeRose, founder of the group Last Chance for Animals, writes: "If the death of one rat cured all diseases, it wouldn't make any difference to me."

    To ascribe rights to animals is to contradict the purpose and justification of rights - to protect the interests of humans. Rights are moral principles necessary for men to survive as human beings - to coexist peacefully, to produce and trade, to provide for their own lives, and to pursue their own happiness, all by the guidance of their rational minds. To attribute rights to non-rational, amoral creatures, who can neither grasp nor live by them, is to turn rights from a tool of human preservation to a tool of human extermination.

    It should be no surprise that many in the animal rights movement use violence to pursue their man-destroying goals. While these terrorists should be condemned and imprisoned, that is not enough. We must wage a principled, intellectual war against the very notion of animal rights; we must condemn it as logically false and morally repugnant.



  15. #275
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    Fairfax,

    why are you quoting and linking stuff that's almost a decade old?

    ************************
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  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    What do you think it will mean to give animals the same rights that we give humans, as the OP article explains animal rights groups attorneys are working to get passed?

    Do I need to say more?
    That is not going to happen. You said yourself that these groups are scammers. Scammers don't win everyone over.

    No one with an ounce of education and a spoonful of common sense would support giving animals "right's" the same as humans have. The majority of people do not think that way. Some do, but not the majority. Support "welfare", yes. If you like other living things, this is automatic.

    Those who try to propose laws to take away our animals would be laughed right out of the door. These people supporting this are nothing but a cult. Cults don't make laws. Washington DC would be snickering and guffawing through the whole presentation by any RARA.



  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Fairfax,

    why are you quoting and linking stuff that's almost a decade old?
    Because it is still relevant and a leopard doesn't change its spots.

    Now..if you don't like that explaination...why do you quote statements regarding abuse, transportation regarding delivery of horses that is almost a decade old?

    These are people who are still very much active.

    It is an explaination as to animals rights and terrorism

    But lets bring it up to date. HSUS, PETA DAILY...now..here and now..in this year..and this month...use much of that "decade old" information in their ongoing struggle on behalf of "the animal"

    They just water it down



  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispatcher View Post
    That is not going to happen. You said yourself that these groups are scammers. Scammers don't win everyone over.

    No one with an ounce of education and a spoonful of common sense would support giving animals "right's" the same as humans have. The majority of people do not think that way. Some do, but not the majority. Support "welfare", yes. If you like other living things, this is automatic.

    Those who try to propose laws to take away our animals would be laughed right out of the door. These people supporting this are nothing but a cult. Cults don't make laws. Washington DC would be snickering and guffawing through the whole presentation by any RARA.
    Designating livestock as companion animals is just the first step and that IS currently on the books for these groups

    Cults DO make laws and get them through. Just ask the AKC and their ongoing legal battles to stop anti dog designation, city by city, county by county and state by state



  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Designating livestock as companion animals is just the first step and that IS currently on the books for these groups

    Cults DO make laws and get them through. Just ask the AKC and their ongoing legal battles to stop anti dog designation, city by city, county by county and state by state
    A "law" to make livestock companion animals will not fly in the U.S. You can bet your bottom dollar that farmers across our nation would call all out war on this.

    Where I live, cults don't make laws. I think because there are so many libraires, colleges, and universities around here. People have vast resources to learn the truth behind a movement.



  20. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Now..if you don't like that explaination...why do you quote statements regarding abuse, transportation regarding delivery of horses that is almost a decade old?
    A decade old?

    Below is the the most recent documentation we posted earlier.
    Dated 09/21/2012.
    Less than a month old!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCBHE...ature=youtu.be

    Bet you didn't even bother to check it out, because you prefer to wear blinders and sing la-la-la.

    And there is plenty more documentation from 2012 revealing animal cruelty is pretty much still part of the slaughter pipeline. The same as it was a decade ago.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



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