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  1. #161
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    Sep. 24, 2009
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    1,191

    Default

    Not that it's going to fix this situation necessarily - but I would post this story in a factual, unemotional way on every horse forum under the sun, and on craigslist and everywhere else. It may save others the aggravation - it's doubtful that it will change anything with ebay.

    I've sold a few saddles (most expensive one was just under $500) on ebay and have one listed now, and I always say that I will accept returns within 7 days of the buyer rec'ing the saddle. I take lots of pictures before shipping. The saddle must be returned in the same condition and the buyer must pay shipping both ways.

    But honestly, after hearing this story, I won't sell any more saddles there.


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  2. #162
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
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    Philadelphia PA
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    Default

    I for one am not saying the OP isn't "wronged." I think she was. The saddle was not returned in the condition in which it was sent. The buyer is "in the wrong."

    But I am also pragmatic.

    1. Although I would not be thrilled with the holes, it's done. It's done by County fitters. It's done POORLY by County fitters. It does not devalue the saddle by $1000 in the real world, and most future buyers won't notice or care. It may be shoddy looking, but it's really not likely to effect saddle integrity or saleability. Plenty of people don't know enough to look there, don't care, or are used to that sort of thing on a used saddle.

    2. If she wants a monetary or moral victory, she won't get that from eBay. She's only going to be spending her own time pursuing that route. If she has time to and wants to, that's fine. But realistically-- she's unlikely to prevail.

    3. The saddle is very nice and is a popular side and model. It's saleable. The damage to it won't even likely reduce its value. If she gets it to the right resale enviornment, she'll probably end up just as well as she thought she did on the initial eBay sale-- maybe even better. I, personally, would invest my energy there.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  3. #163
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2000
    Location
    Bolton Valley, Vermont USA
    Posts
    718

    Default OMG!

    Dear MorganJumper,
    As long as you have the time, FIGHT ON! You have been deeply wronged. Can't eBay understand that the saddle was altered before it was sent back to you? Do they allow their buyers to do this? Incredible, just incredible.

    Sending you a virtual hug (( )) for your troubles.

    Hallie
    Hallie I. McEvoy
    Racing Dreams, LLC


    2 members found this post helpful.

  4. #164
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2006
    Posts
    312

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    You try the pants on before buying them. Wool-flocked saddles are made to be modified. That's one reason why they hold their value.
    Not quite. You might "try on" the pants, but you don't go and hem the pants....and then try to return them for some unconfirmed reason. If you hemmed the pants, they are no longer in new condition and have been "used."

    I have had 4 different saddle fitters fit and flock my saddles over the years (saddles were Albions, Counties, and Bornes), one of whom was a County saddle fitter, and I have never had holes cut into my panels.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  5. #165
    Join Date
    May. 3, 2008
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    1,078

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    Go OP! It's people like us (not the OP) who can't be bothered to fight and who give up because it's easier, who allow asshats like the buyer in this situation and companies like eBay to get away being inconsiderate bullies.
    My grandfather was like you. If people tried to take advantage of him, he had plenty of time and stubbornness to go to the mat and he usually won.

    I really really really hope you win.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  6. #166
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2007
    Posts
    9,050

    Default

    Hey, whoever said a page or two ago that OP should tell ebay about this thread......great idea!

    I've bought a lot of stuff on ebay, including 2 expensive saddles, one years ago and one just the other week (both from europe and both great saddles.) I'm a good customer, only had one issue where I didn't get a pair of shoes in years of buying on ebay.

    I'm going to contact ebay and tell them that they should consult a saddle expert and a consumer lawyer. Having a saddle modified in any way and then sending it back to seller is NOT a legally acceptable method in any state. OP should have not had to take saddle back and refund the money.

    We should all contact ebay and raise cain...or cane, I forget which.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #167
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2011
    Location
    Phillipsburg Ohio
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    507

    Default

    Bottom line- Ebay does not care. They don't care how many people contact them. They don't care how many sellers leave. They actually recently put though a change where sellers must give up the right to join a class action suit, or must leave ebay. Again- they DON'T CARE if the op is right. They DON'T CARE if the saddle is ruined. They DON'T CARE if the seller leaves. They DON'T CARE if you sue them. Ebay is all about the buyer-but it the the only marketplace that offers the exposure for sellers. If the OP had accepted the return in the first place they would most likely have already re-sold the saddle by now. Think hard op- is fighting a fight that you CANNOT win (you agreed to let ebay decide when you signed up for the site- you have NO RIGHTS in this situation) worth RUINING your credit for SEVEN YEARS? The only other option is to give ebay the money back, then sue the buyer in small claims court. You would probably not win, and would have to travel to their state. As far as Ebay, you have NO OPTIONS but to give them the money back.



  8. #168
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
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    6,574

    Default

    'an if ebay is monitoring this thread, you just tipped the scales in their favor ...


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #169
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
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    Philadelphia PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by alto View Post
    'an if ebay is monitoring this thread, you just tipped the scales in their favor ...
    eBay is not trolling COTH wondering what the masses think of their policies, seriously...
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  10. #170
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2010
    Location
    Horse Heaven
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    1,878

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MorganJumper848 View Post
    Ebay forced me to take the saddle back if it came back in the same condition. Saddle didn't. It has 2 slices on each side of the wool panel under the billets.... Someone had a non county related fitter try to fit her horse. Nobody else would use methods like that. Ebay is reviewing the case because this completely destroys the value of the saddle. I won't refund her at this point.
    Wow. Unbelievable. Sorry you are having a living nightmare between the "slicing" buyer and awful eBay. Your experience will be a cautionary -- and very searchable -- tale available on the internet.

    That doesn't help you right now. Good luck with your case against refunding the buyer who destroyed your saddle.



  11. #171
    Join Date
    Sep. 5, 2011
    Posts
    128

    Default

    OP, I am so sorry this all turned so bad for you. As a fairly regular EBay buyer I am saddened to see they can stiff sellers so easily. I am also saddened to see that a person, the buyer, would knowingly treat another person like this. I hope karma comes back to her for such horrible treatment of another person.

    Best of luck with this. I will certainly never sell anything of value on EBay after reading this thread. I will also carefully consider my purchases there as well. Why put money in the pocket of a business that would have such poor business practices?



  12. #172
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    Jun. 30, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    eBay is not trolling COTH wondering what the masses think of their policies, seriously...
    seriously - don't believe everything you read


    1 members found this post helpful.

  13. #173
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2006
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    Seabeck - the soggy peninsula
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    3,389

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by shayaalliard View Post
    Bottom line- Ebay does not care. They don't care how many people contact them. They don't care how many sellers leave. They actually recently put though a change where sellers must give up the right to join a class action suit, or must leave ebay. Again- they DON'T CARE if the op is right. They DON'T CARE if the saddle is ruined. They DON'T CARE if the seller leaves. They DON'T CARE if you sue them. Ebay is all about the buyer-but it the the only marketplace that offers the exposure for sellers. If the OP had accepted the return in the first place they would most likely have already re-sold the saddle by now. Think hard op- is fighting a fight that you CANNOT win (you agreed to let ebay decide when you signed up for the site- you have NO RIGHTS in this situation) worth RUINING your credit for SEVEN YEARS? The only other option is to give ebay the money back, then sue the buyer in small claims court. You would probably not win, and would have to travel to their state. As far as Ebay, you have NO OPTIONS but to give them the money back.
    Contact your United States Senator and Congressman, criminal action is criminal action and they (eBay) are tredding the line in promotion of consumer fraud. I think someone might care. Take a line from the NC grandfather who stuck to the high road and took it to the limit. No, don't bother talking to a crook about their criminal practices, talk to someone who might be able to do something about internet fraud and crime. By all means let the crooks know that you are taking it over their head, that is, contact eBay and let them know what you are going to do. That is the only way I ever got anywhere with anything of this sort. When AT & T years ago tried to defraud me of $600, I did not bother bashing my head against a brick wall with some dodo on the phone. I contacted my Senator and Congressman and they sent it on to the committee or oversees the Federal Communications Commission. Then I got a call from a divisional supervisor and got my money back. Done.
    "I have brought on the hatred of Wall Street and I relish it".
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt


    2 members found this post helpful.

  14. #174
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2007
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    703

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    Quote Originally Posted by shayaalliard View Post
    They actually recently put though a change where sellers must give up the right to join a class action suit, or must leave ebay.
    They have tried to sneak this through, but there is an opt-out clause, so long as you send a letter as outlined in the update to the user agreement to their legal department. One of the reasons that I always read the updates before agreeing to them. You must do this before November 9, 2012 if you currently have an account

    BTW, PayPal is doing the same thing, but also has a opt-out option. Due date is December 1 for PayPal.

    Quote Originally Posted by shayaalliard View Post
    Think hard op- is fighting a fight that you CANNOT win (you agreed to let ebay decide when you signed up for the site- you have NO RIGHTS in this situation) worth RUINING your credit for SEVEN YEARS?
    How exactly is that you think that eBay can ruin your credit? OP has refunded (against her will, but refunded) buyer. So long as her PayPal account has a positive balance, she does not have an issue.

    It is this attitude that you should accept what eBay (or any company for that matter) says that is just - wrong - when it is obvious (and granted we are only getting one side of the story) that OP has been harmed in this transaction. If as sellers we just throw our hands up in the air and take whatever eBay does to us laying down, then we cannot expect any changes in our favor.

    Honestly, your rant sounds like you had a major issue with eBay/PayPal, and if YOU ended up ruining YOUR credit over it, that's your own mistake.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #175
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2005
    Location
    PA
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    12,617

    Default

    Not that this helps OP much....but I have a 5K saddle that I was going to sell on Ebay.

    After reading this thread....not going there. So they just lost another seller.

    Ebay...if they have any business sense do care about sellers. Without them....the will not generate their fees.
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #176
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
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    15,863

    Default

    I do not for one moment doubt the OP's truth... but remember we're only getting one side of the story here. eBay is getting both. No doubt the buyer denies cutting holes in the saddle. So it's he said, she said from eBay's POV. I don't recall there being photos of THAT EXACT SPOT in the auction... and any photos made after the fact could be of a different saddle, fabricated, or the OP could have caused the damage. That's what the buyer is going to claim. And then, from eBay's POV, they gave the OP time to submit documentation and she didn't-- which doesn't help her case. How is eBay to decide who is telling the truth? They really can't. I am not saying the OP is being dishonest, but remember we're only hearing one party's version of events here.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  17. #177
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    I would think that the buyer would have mentioned the sloppy slits in their complaints about the saddle if they had been there previously.


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  18. #178
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2012
    Posts
    473

    Default

    First off, it won't ruin my credit. I just have a negative balance in my paypal account. I also have 30 days to start paying it back. Second, I wouldn't be so mad about this if the buyer was also required to take pictures of measurements showing that one flap was more forward than the other etc. Instead they are making me prove it when I did but they are too lazy to call the police department!


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  19. #179
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    Oct. 6, 2002
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    Philadelphia PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    I would think that the buyer would have mentioned the sloppy slits in their complaints about the saddle if they had been there previously.
    That's because you and I know something about saddles, but remember the person reviewing this doesn't. Buyer will say OP's making the whole thing up/did it herself after she got the saddle back to screw over the buyer so she wouldn't have to give a refund. They are small and under the flap. I don't think it's so nutty to believe that someone might not have pored over the saddle and found them.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  20. #180
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vxf111 View Post
    They are small and under the flap. I don't think it's so nutty to believe that someone might not have pored over the saddle and found them.
    We are talking about a buyer who went thru the trouble of proclaiming flaps are two different lengths and says they had a professional tell them this.
    The is no way said professional would not notice the slits if they were there prior.



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