[Bluey]

Yes, somebody define this. Correct for dressage is not the same as correct for huntseat which is not the same as correct for saddleseat or western. If the standard for correct was the same for all seats there would be 1 style saddle for all types of riding, with different sizes for different horses or riders.

Correct is relative when talking about different styles of riding.

By the way, as a SS rider, most dressage riders look horrible to me on a horse, and H/J folks look like frustrated jockey wanna-bes.

That was my point.
We do all kinds of things with our horses and someone somewhere will think what they do is fine, what others do stupid or dangerous or, oops, even abusive.

You know, if BL is truly abusive in itself, yes, it should go.

If it is just different, but not any more abusive than jumping or prancing around on it's behind in dressage or spinning silly in reining or turning inside out cutting or flying wide out in racing or whatever, if it is just different than what we do, that in itself, if they ride like constipated ducks in hunter classes, or hunchbacks in BL, well, who cares other than the judge?

If there is abuse anywhere, work to stop the abuse, but let the people that like to do whatever with their horses do it, if we like it or not.

If nothing else, because there is someone, somewhere, that will not like what WE do with OUR horses also and, if we keep others from doing what they want just because WE DON'T LIKE IT, THERE!, well, you can't really expect not to be next.

Look at what those do that you don't like what they do are doing.
Ask the right questions if it is abuse or not.
If it is not really abuse, real abuse, not taken out of context idea of what abuse is, like "riding a horse is abuse in itself", well, if it is not abuse, like soring clearly is and that already is illegal, as now the question is if stacks, that are already regulated and inspected are abuse themselves or not and that will be eventually determined, lets shake our heads, say as much as we want that we don't like it, but let them enjoy their horses as they wish, even if that is walking funny.
It really should not be up to us to say what others can and can't do to enjoy themselves and their horses.

[Gnalli]

that link is to a horse in full stacks, ridden by a girl with no helmet and barefoot, sitting unbalanced on the horse's loin, and hauling on the reins attached to long shanks.

i did see other albums, but was time consuming to try to find what you wanted to show. do you have a direct link to the barefoot horse? did you mean that there were some walking horses who were relaxed and happy (don't think anyone doubts this), or ones with/showing a big lick gait?

i appreciate you trying to explain, but the picture i'm seeing is not a shining example of good horsemanship, or natural movement, or a happy, relaxed horse. and i better go explain to a couple of my horses that 12 is "old".

He is 22 now, that is why I refer to him as old. I prefaced it with I am a horrid photographer. I was asked to show a picture of someone who is not hunched over. I was showing that you don't have to ride hunched over. She was sliding back a little, however the saddle was placed correctly, and she was sitting in it correctly, barefeet not included. This was the first time she had ever been on that horse, it was not an intentional ride. We had been on the way to my dad's and stopped by a friend's barn. He had so much going on that day trying to get ready for a show, that he said hello, climb on that horse. She did as she was told and I snapped a bad picture of it. You don't like it, that is fine. Why do you say she is sitting on the loins? Where do you want her to sit-on his withers with her hiney poked out in the air? We don't ride 2 point, and we don't ride in a hunt seat or something that puts us way far forward. I don't see where you are saying she is on his loins.

[Gnalli]

that link is to a horse in full stacks, ridden by a girl with no helmet and barefoot, sitting unbalanced on the horse's loin, and hauling on the reins attached to long shanks.

i did see other albums, but was time consuming to try to find what you wanted to show. do you have a direct link to the barefoot horse? did you mean that there were some walking horses who were relaxed and happy (don't think anyone doubts this), or ones with/showing a big lick gait?

i appreciate you trying to explain, but the picture i'm seeing is not a shining example of good horsemanship, or natural movement, or a happy, relaxed horse. and i better go explain to a couple of my horses that 12 is "old".

Oh, she is not unbalanced, and as far as a helmet goes, I was not raised to wear one. No one in my family did, no one I knew did. That has since changed, but it was what it was.

As for the long shank, IIRC, there was no curb chain on that horse.

[Gnalli]

Oh, and btw, there is no such thing as "Big Lick Plantation".

[hundredacres]

gnalli, do you mean you put your horses in stacks and don't show? You don't have any show level pictures? Your defense just crumbled...I was slightly hopeful that I'd learn something but it turns out, I don't think there is much to learn....that picture shows us a horrible, horrible rider. I'm sorry that you can't see that. You really think the rider is to be on the cantle, ass hanging off? Seriously?

None of the supporters here have shared any pictures showing us how THEY don't ride horrendously, how their horses are relaxed and content, but they are defending the discipline by stating all we do is focus on the bad. Give us some good. Please!

ETA: I looked through your album and all of your riders are unbalanced. I won't comment on the bare feet and slumped seat, except to say that your credibility is gone.

[kasjordan]

This is where you sit a happy, relaxed Walker lol.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Gemwalking.jpg

Out of the mouth of babes- we went to the PA National Horse Show two years ago (after owning this walking gelding for years) and the girl in that picture asked what kind of horses the TWH's were as they were peddling around the ring- absolutely could not believe they were the same breed as our guy. Wanted to know how you rode that kind of horse on the trails lol.

I'm in the to each his own camp- as long as it doesn't hurt the horse. There are just so many types of show horses that suffer what we non-high-end-show-people would consider abuse. All we can really do is make sure we don't contribute towards what offends us.

[katarine]

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...Show%20Winners

Some have lovely seats, some are hunchbacks of Notre Dame.

Richard Spooner, anyone?

[kasjordan]

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...Show%20Winners

Some have lovely seats, some are hunchbacks of Notre Dame.

Richard Spooner, anyone?

That's a great link to so many different styles.

[Bluey]

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...Show%20Winners

Some have lovely seats, some are hunchbacks of Notre Dame.

Richard Spooner, anyone?

Someone mentioned that some horses at times require you to ride hunched up to stay up with them, others not so much.

Maybe if the rider is hunchbacked or not really doesn't matter, as the pictures are to show off whatever the judge looks for in the horse at that moment of the picture, no matter how the rider looks right then?

[hundredacres]

This is where you sit a happy, relaxed Walker lol.
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b2...Gemwalking.jpg

Great picture

[WalkInTheWoods]

Go back to that page of show pictures. Enlarge all the BL horses. Look at their eyes. I dont see a happy horse in the bunch. Most look intimidated. Some look resigned. Then look at the foamy mouths and stretched lips. Sickening. Look at the look on the mugs of the riders. Not a pretty picture.

[kasjordan]

Go back to that page of show pictures. Enlarge all the BL horses. Look at their eyes. I dont see a happy horse in the bunch. Most look intimidated. Some look resigned. Then look at the foamy mouths and stretched lips. Sickening. Look at the look on the mugs of the riders. Not a pretty picture.

I did this, expecting to see what you described. I was actually surprised to see many more happy, alert looking horses than I thought? Can't go by the ears, my TWH almost always has ears back listening to me at some point in time. Most of the black ones actually had pretty great expressions. Some of the women had nice seats, seems to be that the guys tend to do the hunched over thing a lot more?

[katarine]

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...z%20Player.jpg

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...r%20Pepper.jpg

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...%20Sherman.jpg

Those don't look terrified.

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...%20Brogdon.jpg

That is an intelligent looking, sane, non terrified grey horse.

http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...%20Brogdon.jpg

Foam is a GOOD thing in a horse's mouth. Foam is GOOD.

[4cornersfarm]

So, I don't like that either, but it is not for me or you to say to others what they should do, any more than it is for others, that are appalled that we even bred, train and ride horses now demand we leave horses alone, don't breed any more, let the feral ones be the only horses in existence, out there, as "nature", the way they interpret "nature", according to them, meant horses to be.

This. As long as there is no abuse, we can't say to people they can't ride the way they want. Because if we do, we're giving PETA a foot in the door. I play mounted games, and although I don't think it's abusive, I'm sure there are people who think it's terrible. I think western pleasure is abusive.

[aarpaso]

Jackie McConnell's abuse case had a horse named Moody Star is the picture 063-065 that horse,if it is you are looking at a SORED horse.so how many showing are or not,you wont know. thats why the rules for BL need to change they need to stop the stacks and pkges. thats the only way to end soring. maybe not all sore but can ya tell.

that way of riding hunched over is called goose-necking,alot of the heavy men do it they say it helps the dog walk of the hindend.you can see some women do it,the skinny guys do cause thats the way its done.

[katarine]

Jackie McConnell's abuse case had a horse named Moody Star is the picture 063-065 that horse,if it is you are looking at a SORED horse.so how many showing are or not,you wont know. thats why the rules for BL need to change they need to stop the stacks and pkges. thats the only way to end soring. maybe not all sore but can ya tell.

that way of riding hunched over is called goose-necking,alot of the heavy men do it they say it helps the dog walk of the hindend.you can see some women do it,the skinny guys do cause thats the way its done.

Do you acknowledge that NON PADDED horses are also the victims of soring?

[SmartAlex]

Jackie McConnell's abuse case had a horse named Moody Star is the picture 063-065 that horse

Link for simplicity: http://www.shaneshifletphoto.com/dsp...20-%20Star.jpg

[red mares]

Go back to that page of show pictures. Enlarge all the BL horses. Look at their eyes. I dont see a happy horse in the bunch. Most look intimidated. Some look resigned. Then look at the foamy mouths and stretched lips. Sickening. Look at the look on the mugs of the riders. Not a pretty picture.

I don't think there's much point in reasoning with you. You made up your mind before you even saw the pictures. The riders look intense, but they are competing and athletes often look intense during competion. I will concede that there were some not too pretty riders there, but I don't think that is really a reason to call anything abusive.

If you see pictures of a pony or horse pull, what do you see? Do you see a horse rearing to evade the lashings of a teamster or a horse using his weight effectively to move a dead load?

[WalkInTheWoods]

i agree the grey does have a lovely expression both while moving and standing still. keep looking. some of the others show intimidation, resignation or a vacant checked out look. if you dont see it, then we will just have to agree to disagree.

[WalkInTheWoods]

red mares - ive been looking at BL pics for years now and you are so right ! my mind was made up many years ago. thanks for noticing.