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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 9, 2010
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    416

    Default Last Coggins 2/2011?!?

    Am I over reacting? I've been helping a local PCer with her leased mare. We were planning on going to a schooling show in a few weeks so I told PCer together a copy of the Coggins from the owner.

    The Coggins the owner gave us was from 2/2011. My thoughts are that the owner gave us the wrong one. But if not??? I've always kept Coggins up to date every 12 months and sometimes 6. This is a horse that goes off the farm to PC events fairly regularly.

    My immediate reaction is to not allow the horse to leave the current farm (not mine!) and stop interacting with the horse. I'm a little shocked and pretty angry. Is this serious or am I being ridiculous? Do I need to be taking precautions? I have my own horse to worry about :-(



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 23, 2003
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    1,122

    Default

    You're overreacting.

    EIA is pretty much a nonissue. I have a horse who hasn't been tested in at least six years, although he never leaves the farm.

    All a Coggins guarantees is that the horse was negative when the blood was drawn. If EIA were that much of a concern, a six or 12-month Coggins would be meaningless, as the horse could have been bitten by a carrier insect the day after it was tested.

    With a 2/11 Coggins, the test has been expired for 7 or 8 months. No big deal, IMO, though I'm surprised that the PC organizers haven't required a current one.
    "Why would anybody come here if they had a pony? Who leaves a country packed with ponies to come to a non-pony country? It doesn't make sense!"



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2002
    Location
    Philadelphia PA
    Posts
    15,329

    Default

    She needs a new one. But the odds of the horse having EIA simply because it has an expired coggins? Low.
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2008
    Posts
    1,806

    Default

    Completely over-reacting.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 10, 2005
    Location
    Va
    Posts
    3,513

    Default

    If the coggins is needed soon(I see you say going to a show) the vets can do a rush on it for an additional fee. Oh to answer your ?: overreacting.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 17, 2004
    Location
    Rixeyville, VA
    Posts
    6,456

    Default

    I'm also surprised the PC organizers didn't require a current Coggins for lessons or clinics. Certainly you need one for a show. My guess is that the kid didn't know and the owner forgot. It's a pretty easy situation to remedy.

    I own 18 horses at the moment and maybe half of them have current Coggins. Every spring I draw Coggins on the horses that I know will be going off property to shows or clinics. The others don't leave the property. Or if they need to go somewhere, I have a current Coggins drawn later. It's no big deal.
    Where Norwegian Fjords Rule
    http://www.ironwood-farm.com



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,175

    Default

    Yes, you're over-reacting. I'd say about 80% of horses do not have a current Coggins...basically everyone I know who doesn't go to shows doesn't pull them, or does them every two years or something. I keep mine up to date simply because you never know when an emergency might pop up and you need to take a horse off property. (Or to a fun show. )

    Also, why would YOU avoid contact with the horse? Methinks someone doesn't know anything about EIA.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    11,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MtyMax View Post
    Am I over reacting? I've been helping a local PCer with her leased mare. We were planning on going to a schooling show in a few weeks so I told PCer together a copy of the Coggins from the owner.

    The Coggins the owner gave us was from 2/2011. My thoughts are that the owner gave us the wrong one. But if not??? I've always kept Coggins up to date every 12 months and sometimes 6. This is a horse that goes off the farm to PC events fairly regularly.

    My immediate reaction is to not allow the horse to leave the current farm (not mine!) and stop interacting with the horse. I'm a little shocked and pretty angry. Is this serious or am I being ridiculous? Do I need to be taking precautions? I have my own horse to worry about :-(
    You are for sure over reacting.

    If that horse/rider was in NY that coggins would still be considered current. (In NY a coggins is good for the calendar year it is taken and the following calendar year.)

    Simply remind the PCer that she needs a current coggins to travel/show and continue on with life.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 9, 2010
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    416

    Default

    Thanks all! I knew I could count on your wisdom to set me straight I did go back and research EIA after I calmed down...and yes I'm over reacting.

    Its never been an issue for me because my coggins has always been kept up to date within 6 or 12 months. I think I'm annoyed with the very minimalist care at this barn as it is, and this just adds fuel to the fire.

    Once again, I appreciate the honest feedback and I'm grateful that you guys straightened me out.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
    Location
    Ohio: Charter Member - COTH Hockey Clique & COTH Buffy Clique
    Posts
    9,143

    Default

    You may be overreacting, but if that horse is going to shows and especially if crossing state lines OR using interstate highways, the hauler is also breaking federal law. I'm also not sure how the law looks at owner vs. leasee as any transfer of ownership it is REQUIRED that the selling owner provide the buying owner with a neg coggins dated within 12 months.

    Now... this is the law per the USDA. We found out about all of this when a pony at our barn (the owner's 8yo son's pony) came up positive last spring. He was simply a carrier and had never been sick, but a positive was a positive and the state vet quarantined the barn for 60 days (in addition to putting the pony down). How much law enforcement actually enforces the laws, well... that's another story. However, having been through the effects of a positive coggins (which btw transferred owners twice before landing with us and hadn't had a coggins drawn in at least 2 years) AND knowing all the stats on EIA transmittability... I would be livid to find out that a horse wasn't being tested regularly. I understand if you didn't know, but now that you do, get the test done asap before the horse goes anywhere else.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 9, 2010
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    416

    Default

    tle - I was pretty livid that the pony hadn't been tested on a regular basis. She goes off farm frequently (though not to shows) and I was planning on hauling her with my horse tomorrow. So yeah, I was upset. Over reacting? Yes. But still a bit peeved.

    I assumed (we all know what that means!) that a PC pony would be up to date and the only reason I mentioned the coggins was to show next weekend. I didn't evenask about it for the short haul tomorrow...but maybe I should start just in case?

    Thanks!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep. 9, 2007
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    146

    Default 2 year coggins

    The risk of having a positive Coggins is enough of a non-issue that in NJ (the land of overabundant laws) we are only required to draw a Coggins every TWO years. I get mine yearly because I travel across state lines frequently, but if THIS state has relaxed its requirements, that says a lot about how risky the issue is.

    She'll need a current Coggins, but don't worry about the risk to your horses from contact with her horse.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 1999
    Location
    Ohio: Charter Member - COTH Hockey Clique & COTH Buffy Clique
    Posts
    9,143

    Default

    Rules from the USDA for Testing Requirements (paraphrased) - this would superseed any state laws where items are required:

    1. testing requirements should be risk based so local/state laws should apply. Let's face it, there are more cases in the south than the north due to transmission factors so this makes sense. If no local/state requirement, standard 12-month testing for interstate movement is recommended.

    2. The following MUST be tested:
    a. Equines being entered into exhibitions or competitive events - timeframe to be determined by local authorities
    b. Equines being moved interstate - within 12 months (fed/usda rule)
    c. Equines changing ownership - within 12 months required, within 60/90 days recommended, especially in areas of high risk.
    d. Equines entering horse auctions or sales markets


    So even if NJ has a 2 year policy, transporting a horse INTO the state or to a show it is still required within 12 months. I don't think lease counts as change of ownership, but as a leasee I would require one.
    ************
    "Of course it's hard. It's supposed to be hard. It's the Hard that makes it great."

    "Get up... Get out... Get Drunk. Repeat as needed." -- Spike



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec. 25, 2005
    Posts
    1,886

    Default

    First of all, Pony Club usually does require a current coggins (usually sent in with the rider's renewal). Not saying this horse is UTD, just that most clubs I know of require it.

    Second of all, EIA is not common in the US. There have been talks of the 1-yr states going to 2 years. No need to freak out about it. And as someone else said, MOST horses (over 50% for sure) are not current on their coggins.

    If there was an outbreak of EIA in your area I might be worried, but most vets will go their entire lives never seeing an EIA-infected horse. I'd be MUCH more worried about a horse not vaccinated for contagious diseases like flu/rhino/WEE/EEE than I would over an expired coggins test.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep. 2, 2005
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    11,672

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tle View Post
    Rules from the USDA for Testing Requirements (paraphrased) - this would superseed any state laws where items are required:

    1. testing requirements should be risk based so local/state laws should apply. Let's face it, there are more cases in the south than the north due to transmission factors so this makes sense. If no local/state requirement, standard 12-month testing for interstate movement is recommended.

    2. The following MUST be tested:
    a. Equines being entered into exhibitions or competitive events - timeframe to be determined by local authorities
    b. Equines being moved interstate - within 12 months (fed/usda rule)
    c. Equines changing ownership - within 12 months required, within 60/90 days recommended, especially in areas of high risk.
    d. Equines entering horse auctions or sales markets


    So even if NJ has a 2 year policy, transporting a horse INTO the state or to a show it is still required within 12 months. I don't think lease counts as change of ownership, but as a leasee I would require one.
    If they are going to a show in the state of NJ then there is nothing in what you posted that says that NJ requirements are not enough.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2007
    Location
    colorado
    Posts
    20

    Default

    Just wanted to add that this might be a good learning opportunity for the PCer. If she's anywhere near the C level, she should have this information on hand for the horse she's riding. I leased horses all through PC and was expected to keep detailed records on whatever horse I was riding at the time.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2004
    Posts
    2,611

    Default

    Eventer13 makes a good point about vaccinations though. Perhaps your kid should verify that the horse has had fall shots (assume those are also the responsibility of the owner, if coggins tests are).



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2010
    Location
    Eden Prairie, MN
    Posts
    277

    Default

    The risk of EIA is low, but they could run into some logistical problems by not having a current coggins. It's good policy to get one every year, even if your horse doesn't leave the farm. If the horse gets injured and has to go to the university or vet clinic, then there are no issues.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2008
    Posts
    675

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tle View Post
    Rules from the USDA for Testing Requirements (paraphrased) - this would superseed any state laws where items are required:

    1. testing requirements should be risk based so local/state laws should apply. Let's face it, there are more cases in the south than the north due to transmission factors so this makes sense. If no local/state requirement, standard 12-month testing for interstate movement is recommended.

    2. The following MUST be tested:
    a. Equines being entered into exhibitions or competitive events - timeframe to be determined by local authorities
    b. Equines being moved interstate - within 12 months (fed/usda rule)
    c. Equines changing ownership - within 12 months required, within 60/90 days recommended, especially in areas of high risk.
    d. Equines entering horse auctions or sales markets


    So even if NJ has a 2 year policy, transporting a horse INTO the state or to a show it is still required within 12 months. I don't think lease counts as change of ownership, but as a leasee I would require one.
    TLE could you please cite the USDA law. It is my understanding that the states are in control of their own laws concerning testing and transport, although the feds were supposed to convene a group to make the law more uniform. I don't know whether this happened. They do have control about transport of an infected equine.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2000
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    883

    Default

    As everyone else mentioned, you are over reacting. Where I used to show, we did not need coggins at all. The entire province. The only time we needed coggins was a sale or going to the states to show.

    That said, in my non-coggins province I boarded at a barn that REQUIRED coggins to board (not very common practice). The barn didn't require repeated coggins though. A horse the barn owner owned was not right, he had ventral edema and was very lethargic. When regular bloods were all normal they pulled a coggins. It was positive. All the horses on the property had coggins pulled, quarantined for 6 weeks and then had another coggins pulled again (all free - government must have paid). One other horse did come positive. A 3 year old that was born on the property and never had been off the propery, again owned by the owner. He was non-symptomatic. Both horses were euthanized. It sucked, but I was happy my horse was ok.

    I understand how low the exposure rate is, but first hand experience changed my feelings that it *never* is seen.



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