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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    I reviewed all the pix available on this thread. Not one with a DEA vehicle in it. Where do you come up with this stuff????
    NBC and the local tv channel.



    Also couldn't find mention of a rescue group - but whatever.
    If it's animal control caring for the animals, they are part of county government. Duh....
    Also, usually when there is a rescue operative there are a lot of people standing around...a bunch of trucks and trailers etc. This is just not the case.

    Could be something. Could be nothing.

    I don't know. All I am saying is there is MORE to this story than just saving the horses and too much appears to be conveniently staged.

    If I am wrong I will be the FIRST to admit it.

    Bad rescues, irresponsible rescues, rescues with agendas other than the horses create problems for the many many GREAT rescues out there and this year I think we are going to truly be in great need.

    Everytime a bad rescue, a case is over turned or something along that line, donations drop off for credible rescues and people quit caring.

    The rescue around Edmonton, Alberta...Dale Huber and Axel (can't remember his name) was properly coordinated, horses moved in a correct manner and they tried to keep them in their groups..even though there were DEAD horses, and bunnies chickens etc on the property and there were 101 Arabians. They documented (ASPCA) and worked with other groups. When they moved the horses the feed was ready for them...they had already run tests on horses to make sure they were at least healthy enough to be moved and also they were not transporting disease or lice to the new facility. They took their time moving them...even though the two men were not very nice about the whole thing.

    They garnered a lot of respect from the community, the media and there was no hoopla like this one where the A/C rep and county AUDITOR (non horse person) went after air time with their dog and pony show....AND the D.E.A. for what ever reason was involved. That is not open to dispute.

    I am saying poorly operated rescues can cause death to animals (Robin Vess case) can transfer highly communicable diseases i.e. strangles (Tom Williamson case with TB's from Ramona Ca) and many other issues.

    As a very long time probation and apprehension officer, juvenile department (retired) one gets a shoulder shudder when they "smell" something isn't correct. Having worked on this since the Rex Ellison case in California (owner of Swaps Kentucky Derby Winner) to present..one does get a sense from the immediate urgency and how it is carried out. Also press releases ALREADY prepared and distributed to the media by the DEA and not the rescue are a red flag.



  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calvincrowe View Post
    Dacasodivine--You need to google the incident, watch the news stories and read the news accounts. The horses were seized after a DEA-led arrest of the doctor who owns the horses. The AC of Pierce and Kitsap counties were involved, following the laws of the state of Washington. The living conditions were appalling, and we have (GrahamHeeler) an eyewitness who has corroborated the conditions. They live there...Fairfax does not. The AC and Animal Abuse laws of Washington are pretty good. I've reported neglect to them, dealt with them, etc. They prefer to leave animals in place (as they did with the starving horses next door to me) and help the owners to become better horsemen. They seize when the situation clearly can't be safe or improved.

    Fairfax insinuated (as did an elderly vet who lives next door) that the man loves his horses, works full time, and is now presumably in custody of the county. Who would care for them now?

    Not sure why Fairfax feels that Pierce Co. is "making money" off the situation. Leo seems to have some interesting conspiracy theories about AC/LE.
    Can you provide me with the name and credentials of the A/C officer. If the person is that great I would like to enter them into our data base.

    I am just unclear why the Rescue is not getting any of the donations..perhaps you can explain that

    If the individual is in custody then the horses could have been maintained at the property outdoors. It would appear that if the D.E.A. did NOT find what they were looking for, arresting the person (I have not heard this other than your comment however I did suspect it due to the allegations against him) and then taking the horses would almost appear they could be using that as a negotiating point...just something to ponder.

    As I have stated...There is more to this story than "just the horses"

    Eventually we will learn the truth, but most people won't even remember the case by the time it is resolved either way. This year is going to be a mess by the accounts of many rescues. One in Louisianna has a waiting list, according to them, of over 200 head.



  3. #83
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    Jun. 29, 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Can you provide me with the name and credentials of the A/C officer. If the person is that great I would like to enter them into our data base.
    "our data base"...



  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abercrombie View Post
    "our data base"...
    I think you have a crush on me Abercrombie. All you seem to do is follow me around thread by thread



  5. #85
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    Sep. 7, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    I think you have a crush on me Abercrombie. All you seem to do is follow me around thread by thread
    Methinks you may have an inflated sense of your own importance.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  6. #86
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    Jun. 14, 2007
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    TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calvincrowe View Post
    Dacasodivine--You need to google the incident, watch the news stories and read the news accounts. The horses were seized after a DEA-led arrest of the doctor who owns the horses. The AC of Pierce and Kitsap counties were involved, following the laws of the state of Washington. The living conditions were appalling, and we have (GrahamHeeler) an eyewitness who has corroborated the conditions. They live there...Fairfax does not. The AC and Animal Abuse laws of Washington are pretty good. I've reported neglect to them, dealt with them, etc. They prefer to leave animals in place (as they did with the starving horses next door to me) and help the owners to become better horsemen. They seize when the situation clearly can't be safe or improved.

    Fairfax insinuated (as did an elderly vet who lives next door) that the man loves his horses, works full time, and is now presumably in custody of the county. Who would care for them now?

    Not sure why Fairfax feels that Pierce Co. is "making money" off the situation. Leo seems to have some interesting conspiracy theories about AC/LE.
    I'm not going by anything Fairfax said. I'm going by what I saw and didn't see on that video. Something just doesn't smell right to me. Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully we can follow this and find out one way or the other.

    I stand by what I said about those horses generating easy money. They are healthy. If/when they go up for adoption, they will go fast and will cost little to nothing for whoever is footing the bill because they will have donations to cover costs. The adoption fees will be like free money to them.

    As for the witness, I was on another board where someone was complaining about the conditions of her neighbor's horses. They didn't feed grain, not even to growing babies, they didn't handle them, there was no barn. OMG take them away! The horse were given hay regularly and had a pond for water, trees for shelter, and were in good condition. But that person really believed those horses should be removed.

    Sure the conditions in the barn were bad. I"m not saying they weren't. I'm just saying sometimes one person's idea of bad conditions (IE the whole property, not the barn) wouldn't be considered bad to others.



  7. #87
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    Hhhm.. I live about 20 mins from there, know the farm (I have driven by many times) but have never met the owners. I have never noticed any signs of abuse or neglect. Never noticed anything weird at all.

    I also am a member of Region 5 AHA and have never seen the owners active at the shows. Most of the local members have no idea who these folks are and also know the place and say they have not seen any abuse ?? Maybe I'll take a drive out there tomorrow when I head into town.
    The Knotted Pony

    Proud and upstanding member of the Snort and Blow Clique.



  8. #88

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    Fairfax:
    There were no DEA marked vehicles pulling horse trailers. I dont know where you came up with that one.
    As to the DEA using animals as leverage because they may have owner in custody, I dont know nor claim to know about the side of the issue I have no clue, but I do know he IS NOT in custody or at least was not on on Wednesday when horse were siezed he was on site the entire time.
    The horses have been moved to local county owned park and there on the very night hay, grain, and basic supplys were donated and delivered straight to the location the horses were moved to by a local feed store. They just finally removed the last 14 of the horses yesterday.
    I dont get how anyone could argue that the State, County, or anyone would be doing this for financial gain, the amount this will cost the A/C and County is huge..
    And @ twotrudoc when go by you will see how no one would ever see what was going on its the place that sits way far off the road you can see only the tops of buildings from the roads, and the horses kept outdoors were located behind those buildings you see the tops of, so sadly even though its off that busy busy road you cant see squat until your at the very end of that very very long road leading to house.
    As far as the amount of people on site there were over two dozen people on site at any given time until at least 9 or 10pm that night and again several the very next morning when I left for work at 8am and got home at 6pm, and there were two trucks there yet again today. So its really hard for anyone to try to give a valid argument based on 15 second video clips for the media. You cant argue what is unles you see it first hand, Period!
    And Calvincrowe could not be more correct in Pierce County they would rather try to fix a situation working with owners, coming up with help for them, education etc etc rather than just jumping straight to seizures.. I really think that people who are always convinced that "the man" is out to get them or others in this case, are people who probably have all kinds of screwed up issues of their own and someone public or private has called them on it made them stand accountable for it, now they are sure the worlds out to get them, and everyone else and now everyone must also know the DEA is now out stealing old mens horses, to make money.. Its actually pathetic. And I will never understand how any knowledgable horse person could justify any of this...



  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    Methinks you may have an inflated sense of your own importance.
    Yahoo...I now have groupies



  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamHeeler View Post
    Fairfax:
    There were no DEA marked vehicles pulling horse trailers. I dont know where you came up with that one.
    As to the DEA using animals as leverage because they may have owner in custody, I dont know nor claim to know about the side of the issue I have no clue, but I do know he IS NOT in custody or at least was not on on Wednesday when horse were siezed he was on site the entire time.
    The horses have been moved to local county owned park and there on the very night hay, grain, and basic supplys were donated and delivered straight to the location the horses were moved to by a local feed store. They just finally removed the last 14 of the horses yesterday.
    I dont get how anyone could argue that the State, County, or anyone would be doing this for financial gain, the amount this will cost the A/C and County is huge..
    And @ twotrudoc when go by you will see how no one would ever see what was going on its the place that sits way far off the road you can see only the tops of buildings from the roads, and the horses kept outdoors were located behind those buildings you see the tops of, so sadly even though its off that busy busy road you cant see squat until your at the very end of that very very long road leading to house.
    As far as the amount of people on site there were over two dozen people on site at any given time until at least 9 or 10pm that night and again several the very next morning when I left for work at 8am and got home at 6pm, and there were two trucks there yet again today. So its really hard for anyone to try to give a valid argument based on 15 second video clips for the media. You cant argue what is unles you see it first hand, Period!
    And Calvincrowe could not be more correct in Pierce County they would rather try to fix a situation working with owners, coming up with help for them, education etc etc rather than just jumping straight to seizures.. I really think that people who are always convinced that "the man" is out to get them or others in this case, are people who probably have all kinds of screwed up issues of their own and someone public or private has called them on it made them stand accountable for it, now they are sure the worlds out to get them, and everyone else and now everyone must also know the DEA is now out stealing old mens horses, to make money.. Its actually pathetic. And I will never understand how any knowledgable horse person could justify any of this...

    You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT

    I am ABSOLUTELY WRONG


    Even with computer reading glasses, trying to make out a video sent to me, while on dial up...

    THEY ARE COUNTY VEHICLES

    Again

    THEY ARE COUNTY VEHICLES


    They are NOT D.E.A.


    No excuse..just an apology offered as I should have been more careful and done more look/see and double checking



  11. #91
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    Jun. 18, 2011
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    (To the tune of Folsom Prison Blues)

    I hear the train a comin'
    It's rollin' 'round the bend
    And COTH ain't had no box wine
    Since, the Crayola Trainer Thread
    I'm stuck in Off Course Forum
    And time keeps dragging on
    But that train wreck keeps a rollin'
    Guess I should pop some corn...

    C'mom, do we really gotta turn this into a train wreck?



  12. #92
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    I have seen no reports of the ower being arrested. The DEA was there investigating.

    Given the huge numbers of unwanted/free/cheap horses available in this area, I sincerely doubt that there will be much money made off of these horses.



  13. #93
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    I have raised horses and lived in Pierce County in the past and I still have family there so I have some experience.

    First I don't think there was any rescue involved in this seizure. The last rescue (Ripley's) PCAC worked with on horses collected 25 horses from a similar poor conditions situation and decided that 12 were not adoptable. They then walked them down the road and shot all 12 in the head. This included 3 who were being kept as evidence for the case. Needless to say the case fell apart. So Pierce County Animal Control is not favorably disposed to rescues. Especially where legal issues are involved.

    In Washington state AC is under Dog Licensing which is under the county auditor (Julie Anderson). She is very political. But she is also very cheap when it comes to spending money on any animal issue (PCAC spent $60K on a bunch of seized Great Danes just 5 years ago under a different Auditor).

    The county is going to have to spend $60 a month to take care of these 39 (Counties are not efficient). Julie would never do this for the horses welfare. Something else is at work here.



  14. #94
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    A vet stated he recently "floated the teeth" on the old mare and treated another for navicular. He also spoke with a newspaper reporter and stated there were NO horses in THAT barn nor had there been since spring when he was also out.

    There was a lot of feed available.

    This is ONLY an unproven conspiracy theory.

    The Dr. was under investigation due to allegations of improper pill sales by a "disgruntled ex-employee.

    The D.E.A. did an office raid and a farm raid and did NOT find evidence to substantiate that claim.

    They were aware the Dr. and his wife had several horses and they truly loved them.

    It has been "alleged" that is was the D.E.A. that "messed up the dirty barn" and flooded the stalls that had NOT been cleaned for many months and that is why there was a hose in the aisleway, and the moisture was fresh, but the runoff was clear. They saturated the stalls.

    They then placed horses into THOSE stalls (all had been outside)

    They reported these "conditions" to the A/C the FOLLOWING morning and were then able to implement a warrantless seizure on the horses.

    There were no dead bodies. No foals. No yearlings. No two year olds and there is a claim the youngest is actually five years old.

    It has been alleged this occured as the D.E.A. wanted to use these horses as a lever against the Dr. and his wife.

    They have NOT rolled. The Dr has NOT been charged and has NOT been incarcerated.

    I don't know if this is THE TRUTH but it most certain is plausible.

    Thank you to the previous poster who also believes there is something else going on.

    There are NO emaciated horses.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  15. #95
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    how much land is involved? Does a developer want that land for a shopping mall or something else? Esp since one of the previous posters said it's a very busy road.
    Does seem fishy.
    No excuse for the compacted manure in the stalls but it is odd that the horses didn't seem to be covered with urine stains etc. and most seemed in good weight.



  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julia Dalek View Post
    I have raised horses and lived in Pierce County in the past and I still have family there so I have some experience.

    First I don't think there was any rescue involved in this seizure. The last rescue (Ripley's) PCAC worked with on horses collected 25 horses from a similar poor conditions situation and decided that 12 were not adoptable. They then walked them down the road and shot all 12 in the head. This included 3 who were being kept as evidence for the case. Needless to say the case fell apart. So Pierce County Animal Control is not favorably disposed to rescues. Especially where legal issues are involved.

    In Washington state AC is under Dog Licensing which is under the county auditor (Julie Anderson). She is very political. But she is also very cheap when it comes to spending money on any animal issue (PCAC spent $60K on a bunch of seized Great Danes just 5 years ago under a different Auditor).

    The county is going to have to spend $60 a month to take care of these 39 (Counties are not efficient). Julie would never do this for the horses welfare. Something else is at work here.
    Anderson is a Liberal Progressive lackey who is completely owned by the Dem Party here in WA. The Dems loff them some HSUS too.

    I didn't drive by but I think I will be calling the ole Auditors office on Monday. I'm very, very politically active and the chance to pop off at her corrupt liberal staff is very enticing. I might even go down there Thursday afternoon, why not
    The Knotted Pony

    Proud and upstanding member of the Snort and Blow Clique.



  17. #97
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    Which vet Fairfax? Briskey?
    The Knotted Pony

    Proud and upstanding member of the Snort and Blow Clique.



  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    A vet stated he recently "floated the teeth" on the old mare and treated another for navicular. He also spoke with a newspaper reporter and stated there were NO horses in THAT barn nor had there been since spring when he was also out.

    There was a lot of feed available.

    This is ONLY an unproven conspiracy theory.

    The Dr. was under investigation due to allegations of improper pill sales by a "disgruntled ex-employee.

    The D.E.A. did an office raid and a farm raid and did NOT find evidence to substantiate that claim.

    They were aware the Dr. and his wife had several horses and they truly loved them.

    It has been "alleged" that is was the D.E.A. that "messed up the dirty barn" and flooded the stalls that had NOT been cleaned for many months and that is why there was a hose in the aisleway, and the moisture was fresh, but the runoff was clear. They saturated the stalls.

    They then placed horses into THOSE stalls (all had been outside)

    They reported these "conditions" to the A/C the FOLLOWING morning and were then able to implement a warrantless seizure on the horses.

    There were no dead bodies. No foals. No yearlings. No two year olds and there is a claim the youngest is actually five years old.

    It has been alleged this occured as the D.E.A. wanted to use these horses as a lever against the Dr. and his wife.

    They have NOT rolled. The Dr has NOT been charged and has NOT been incarcerated.

    I don't know if this is THE TRUTH but it most certain is plausible.

    Thank you to the previous poster who also believes there is something else going on.

    There are NO emaciated horses.
    If any of that can be proven, go to the press with it and have them check this out, as tampering with the evidence.
    If that is true, I hope some heads will roll from this set up of the doctor, if he is guilty or not.
    That is not the way to go about charging anyone!

    If you don't have proof of what you write and there was abuse there, then, well, you may be next in line, after the doctor, for presenting false accusations.



  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by twotrudoc View Post
    Anderson is a Liberal Progressive lackey who is completely owned by the Dem Party here in WA. The Dems loff them some HSUS too.

    I didn't drive by but I think I will be calling the ole Auditors office on Monday. I'm very, very politically active and the chance to pop off at her corrupt liberal staff is very enticing. I might even go down there Thursday afternoon, why not
    I'm down in Olympia, have a couple of Arabians too. I am concerned regarding the pictures of the horses in decent weight and clean horses with clean hooves and legs coming off the trailers. That does not add up if those horses were locked in filthy stalls for months on end.

    Just read in one of the media reports that the horses are being housed at Frontier Park.
    http://www.co.pierce.wa.us/pc/abtus/...ks/pkfront.htm

    Since that is a public park people should be able to view them. There should be some tell-tale signs like mud fever type scabs on especially the white legs if they were in wet mucky conditions for any period of time.

    The libs are in bed with the HSUS/PETA types and get lots of political donations from them.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  20. #100
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    Have we met, Robin? I'm usually at the shows and know the Oly folks like Judy J, Eric & the Eros boys, even Joyce T who is closer to Yelm though.

    I'm tempted to just run up to the park (I'm right off Yelm Highway/McKenna Tanniwax Highway area.). I really do need to get my Accounting and Econ homework done though.
    The Knotted Pony

    Proud and upstanding member of the Snort and Blow Clique.



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