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  1. #1
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    Default Front Page NYT Article on Drugging

    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry



  2. #2
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    Default and how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

    Hi,
    When will someone write a good article about the hay, oats, and water trainers? The horsemen who stay all night with a coliced claimer for the love of the horse?

    ARGHHHHHH!

    Hallie



  3. #3
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    May. 23, 2005
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    Default

    Ms. Kayne said in an interview. “I have no problem with racing big, sound, healthy horses. I spent a lot of time in Europe at racetracks and saw the fruits of drug-free racing.”

    In Europe they're using Lasix and Clenbuterol to work horses between races, which is even more unregulated. Just because they don't use pre-race and race day medication does not make Europe drug free.



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by haligator View Post
    Hi,
    When will someone write a good article about the hay, oats, and water trainers? The horsemen who stay all night with a coliced claimer for the love of the horse?

    ARGHHHHHH!

    Hallie
    Because it would be undramatic.
    I realize that I'm generalizing here, but as is often the case when I generalize, I don't care. ~ Dave Barry



  5. #5
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    Dec. 27, 2006
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    Default

    There is no love of horses; only love of money. What a shame.



  6. #6
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    Nov. 14, 2011
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post
    There is no love of horses; only love of money. What a shame.
    Hahahahaha wow... I don't even have to make an arguement, this statement is just dead wrong.

    If I loved money more than horses, I wouldn't be doing this! It's too hard of a lifestyle to take on willingly without a passion for the animal and the sport.

    As for the article, I'm not even going to give that one-sided, hypocritical, slime filled excuse for a publication the satisfaction of a click on the link. I guarantee it is written by someone who has no business writing about the industry, jam packed with dramatizations and more skewed "statistics".


    Good night, everyone.

    "Pat the horse; kick yourself" - Carl Hester



  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelico View Post
    *snip*

    As for the article, I'm not even going to give that one-sided, hypocritical, slime filled excuse for a publication the satisfaction of a click on the link. I guarantee it is written by someone who has no business writing about the industry, jam packed with dramatizations and more skewed "statistics".
    Joe Drape doing his Drape thing. Inflammatory, misleading language & implied connections.

    I've said this in reference to Mr. Drape's charming works before... racing has enough legit, well documented problems to write a brutal article filled with facts. This sort of garbage is nothing more than propaganda.

    He has an agenda & a platform to promote it. Racing has no such platform to refute & cannot agree on an agenda. We're screwed.
    bar.ka think u al.l. susp.ect
    free bar.ka and tidy rabbit



  8. #8
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    Default Say What?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post
    There is no love of horses; only love of money. What a shame.
    Boy, you must not have spent much time on the backstretches of America. The love I have seen is staggering. Most people barely get by themselves, but the horses are fed, watered, groomed, and yes, loved, first.

    I've done a lot of things in this business - everything from breeding, owning, hot walking, grooming, exercise riding, and for a memorable time was a terrible QH jock. I've also been a licensed recorded judge for the USEF along with writing books and thousands of articles about horses.

    I have seen brokenhearted trainers after having a horse claimed away; grooms crying because their horse has run his last race and is now going back to the farm; hotwalkers sobbing openly when the claim clip is put on their favorite horses' bridle; and owners/breeders lovingly welcoming their retirees home.

    What have you seen that makes you as jaded as you are? How many trainers have you worked for? And, why, for goodness sake, are you posting on the racing forum if you feel this way about racing?

    Personally, I've seen far more abuse in other horse disciplines but I'm not going into that.

    Hallie



  9. #9
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    Default

    Jeez, I love how the owners here are painted as the innocent victims. You had horses in training with a trainer for how long and you just suddenly noticed these vet bills? Your trainer did not just suddenly start using these things. I think the owners are more the problems than anything else. They put so much pressure on trainers to win that trainers are quicker to resort to drugs or pushing the horses too far. Owners don't want to hear that their expensive investment needs "time off" or should be running at a lower price or god forbid, "just isn't that fast". Too many owners who aren't in it for the right reasons or are just blind to what goes on with their horses. If the trainer isn't producing results, they pull out and send them to whoever is "big" at the moment, ie most likely the guy using medications and pushing the horses to get them to win. Owners need to start stepping up and taking more responsibility for what goes on with their horses, just as much as the trainers do. I know there are plenty of great owners out there that take care of their horses, but there are also so many out there who just don't pay enough attention to what is going on. Trainers aren't paying for medications and vet bills out of pocket, that all goes straight to the owners.
    OTTB CONNECT
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by haligator View Post
    What have you seen that makes you as jaded as you are? How many trainers have you worked for? And, why, for goodness sake, are you posting on the racing forum if you feel this way about racing?

    Personally, I've seen far more abuse in other horse disciplines but I'm not going into that.

    Hallie
    Thankyou! Saved me a lot of typing.
    "Everyone will start to cheer, when you put on your sailin shoes"-Lowell George

    What's the status on Tuco?



  11. #11
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    My absolute most favorite thing to read is this. Every article is absolutely false unless it highlights how it's ok to overuse meds. And to bring it all home we talk about how the Euro's are 10 times worse and use all this stuff in actively racing horses.

    Cop on. The drug tests over here are quite sophisticated. They pick up over 2000 substances at the moment. There is zero tolerance to running on these drugs. Do people cheat? Yup. Do they get caught? Not 100% obviously. People are fined and banned. They don't play around. Do they train on lasix and Clen daily. No the do not, but if it makes you feel so much better saying that, kudos. Where is your proof? A friend of a friend? I heard...... Yup medication is allowed in training. It must be out of the horse's system to run. Therefore you will not be running horses under the influence of medication. That's a huge difference in acceptable levels in the system. That is zero. Please, please do think about that before spouting off about what they do in Europe.

    If you want my credentials I'll be happy to give them to you. You know on the account of posting on the racing forum and all.

    Terri
    COTH, keeping popcorn growers in business for years.

    "I need your grace to remind me to find my own." Snow Patrol-Chasing Cars. This line reminds me why I have horses.



  12. #12
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    It's rumored that the Europeans/Brits/Irish might be considering a ban on American imports of TBs unless we clean up our racing. That might be why the JC is finally speaking out.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  13. #13
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    The JC has been speaking out about drugs for years. Also, why would they care if TBs are exported? It won't affect the registered foals enough for them to worry about it.

    I would be nice if we were all racing on a level playing field, though.
    "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    It's rumored that the Europeans/Brits/Irish might be considering a ban on American imports of TBs unless we clean up our racing. That might be why the JC is finally speaking out.
    Thank you. For everyone who wants an article about the hay and oats trainers, why write about what the minority are doing right? They cannot compete against the drug lords. What in the name of all that is holy could anyone have as an agenda other than the outright banning of horse racing, which, may happen if the drug happy trainers and their supporting nee leading staff, the veterinarians are not stopped. How blind can anyone be to resort to Pollyannish delusions about how great US racing is today? What is wrong with people? As far as the owners go, how the hell can they know about the drugs, the trainers do not send them an itemized list of the veterinarians bills. Maybe they are delusional too and blind, but they are not the ones sticking the horses with dope, the trainer and the vet collude, simple.
    "I have brought on the hatred of Wall Street and I relish it".
    Franklin Delano Roosevelt



  15. #15
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    There is big money for breeders and owners of potential stallions in selling for export. The JC cares about that market.
    "I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay."
    Thread killer Extraordinaire



  16. #16
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    Thank you. For everyone who wants an article about the hay and oats trainers, why write about what the minority are doing right? They cannot compete against the drug lords. What in the name of all that is holy could anyone have as an agenda other than the outright banning of horse racing, which, may happen if the drug happy trainers and their supporting nee leading staff, the veterinarians are not stopped. How blind can anyone be to resort to Pollyannish delusions about how great US racing is today? What is wrong with people? As far as the owners go, how the hell can they know about the drugs, the trainers do not send them an itemized list of the veterinarians bills. Maybe they are delusional too and blind, but they are not the ones sticking the horses with dope, the trainer and the vet collude, simple.
    I don't know what world you live in, but in mine the vet bills the owner directly. That includes one of the vets mentioned in this article from the Times. I don't mind folks having an opinion, but at least base it on fact.



  17. #17

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    Bravo Haligator!
    I have had a similar backround at the track. And at one time spent a lot of time in the show ring. I am not familiar with USEF drug rules but, for fun I look at legs,at Horse Shows and have seen some scary wheels..drug testing is random at shows?



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    There is big money for breeders and owners of potential stallions in selling for export. The JC cares about that market.
    Why would the Jockey Club care about that? It doesn't affect them in the slightest as I see it.



  19. #19
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    Ditto Laurierace. Why on earth would JC care about big money for breeders and owners of potential stallions in selling for export? Doesn't affect them at all. The only thing that affects the JC directly is the foal crop. (Other things affect its other companies, but the JC is all about number of registered Thoroughbreds.)

    Also, the amount of trainers who dope is pretty low. Tracks, etc., are picking up their punishments. The problem is the people like Joe Drape who dramatize it and make it seem as if every horse out there is being drugged and every trainer is a doper and the vets couldn't care less about the horses if they can make a buck. It just isn't true, but the general public is too clueless not to believe it
    "If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em."



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by On the Farm View Post
    I don't know what world you live in, but in mine the vet bills the owner directly. That includes one of the vets mentioned in this article from the Times. I don't mind folks having an opinion, but at least base it on fact.
    I believe owners always get the bills and generally they have to sign the consent forms for major procedures and give the clinic credit cards for them. That is why some of that article was frankly incredible.

    Here's my take: I am not anti medication but relying on medication and vetwork as a crutch to replace horsemanship and basic soundness is a philosophy which the owner buys into when the trainer is picked. The trainer is not only the one with the black hat. Some owners--given the choice between say inject and drop and time off -- make the less immediately expensive choice.

    There are a lot of ignorant owners but ignorance is not the equivalent of sainthood. At some point, not educating themselves as to all those complicated chemicals on the vet's bill is the same as making a choice and owning it. Even more to the point, reaping the "benefits" of practices without a peep really undermines someone's credibility when things don't go so well.



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