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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by justdandy View Post
    For starters, you STOP EFFING BREEDING!!!!!!!!!!!
    A million times this.
    "A horse gallops with his lungs, perseveres with his heart, and wins with his character." - Tesio


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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    When I read about these situations I don't think, "how could you be so stupid" I think, God help me to have the courage to do the right thing, and the perspective to know when if I'm ever in this situation.

    Paula
    Me too. As one other poster said, there but for the grace of God, go I.

    I try hard, every day to think about the "what if's" for my horses and my dogs.

    What if... I were in a bad car accident, on life support and unable to make decisions?

    What if....I had a dog get desperately ill and a neighbor called the dog warden?

    What if....I had a horse go lame and if she was never able to be ridden again?

    I think about these things BEFORE they happen. Hopefully they never will, but if they do, I want the people around me to know my wishes.

    As I said before, I feel deeply sorry for CCH, and I hope she finds herself out of this pit.



  3. #43
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    You know what is worse, months or years from now, these kinds of people will be back at it.

    I kind of followed for a while the breeding and talk about this or that about the horses and it didn't make sense with what I know from the horse industry, especially the kinds of horses mentioned, that there was a real market for that and it was not.

    Some people just build themselves these grandiose ideas about this or that, here horses, in their minds and lose contact with reality.

    Sure, money quit coming in, jobs are lost, a drought (not really, that are is always in a drought), there are always excuses why things are getting hard and harder.

    They are just that, excuses, not acceptable that a manager is failing to manage, if it is horses or whatever you are managing in your life.

    I am saying this so others reading here, that may be in close to those situations, do think hard what they are doing.
    Don't take chances with other lives, here those of horses, betting on luck coming your way to care for them.
    Do what you have to do now.

    We are lucky that most people are sensible and don't let themselves go to these depths as here and in other cases we have heard about and discussed before.



  4. #44
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    Oct. 3, 2008
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    Help is just not out there right now. You really need to be going through something like this to understand that.

    I feel for these horses, but I also feel for the owner(s) right now. The economy has so drastically changed in the last couple of years that it is almost impossible to do the right thing sometimes. Not everyone has a gun or lives in an area where they can be buried.

    Only one horse looked underweight in the video, so I don't understand how they could all be seized??

    ETA: I totally agree about breeding though; it needs to stop.



  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulaedwina View Post
    I don't think it's stupidity, it's hope. Maybe something will change tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow. It's denial -things are only a little bad. When I read about these situations I don't think, "how could you be so stupid" I think, God help me to have the courage to do the right thing, and the perspective to know when if I'm ever in this situation.

    Paula
    Before you get to the point where your horses are on elf shoes, you stop hoping and start ACTING.



  6. #46
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    Apr. 10, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Y
    Some people just build themselves these grandiose ideas about this or that, here horses, in their minds and lose contact with reality.

    Sure, money quit coming in, jobs are lost, a drought (not really, that are is always in a drought), there are always excuses why things are getting hard and harder.
    I think this happens a lot in the horse world... people lose perspective and frankly lose touch with reality too.

    I am not sure why one would continue to breed when it is clear things are not so good economically and horses are not selling. I do think a lot of people get caught up in the notion that the next foal might be the Next Big Thing. It's almost like a weird addiction... the thrill of the chase.

    There are definitely people though who just end up in over their heads, cause life gets in the way. But still.

    These situations are a lesson to us all, I guess. Have an emergency plan, be realistic, make hard decisions when they are necessary.
    We couldn't all be cowboys, so some of us are clowns.



  7. #47
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    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by red mares View Post
    Can't give them away?

    Load up the trailer, take them to the sale yard, consign them and walk away.

    Sometimes what you need to do is not what you want to. They might end up in Mexico, they might not.
    This makes a lot more sense than shooting them (if you're even expert enough to do clean kill shots, as I can't imagine not dropping them on the first try would be fun to watch) or trying to convince a vet who's already refused to do one without cash in hand to put down dozens. Hauling all the old ones or the young ones to the sale and selling them off would at least get them off the feed bill. And frankly if the KB's the only taker, who cares? Dead is dead. Horses don't know any better and you'd just going to kill them anyway. At least then you get some money out of it for the ones you have left and for other expenses (which it sounds like there were.) And public sale means people who don't want them going to kill have a chance at them if they REALLY mean it. I'm fortunate that I have just one horse I could very likely give away if I had to (in fact had a standing offer from the other boarders at my old place if I ever couldn't keep him) but in a business situation, sometimes culling's the only option.

    I'm not saying I don't think there was something fishy going on, as it doesn't SOUND like, at minimum, CCH was properly advised of legal rights (like what kind of court proceeding it was or need for/right to representation), and if there are water rights involved, yep, I can COMPLETELY believe the neighbors who want the water would do something underhanded. That sort of thing gets ugly easy. But it does sound like there were just horses who HAD to go, who weren't selling via private sale, and hauling a few and unloading them to anyone with the cash at auction would have been a lot smarter.



  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by justdandy View Post
    For starters, you STOP EFFING BREEDING!!!!!!!!!!!
    Yes. There is really no excuse for creating more and more victims. If you can't afford to geld them or build more paddocks to separate them, then suck it up and shoot them. Or try to sell them at the auction for $5.
    I see so many excuses in that FB post and no responsibility. That poor lame yearling in the video is so damn sad. I wish I could take him, but it's probably too late for him. He should have never been born in the first place.
    You are what you dare.


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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by red mares View Post
    Sounds to me like she was past the point of "checking references." Really, who in that situation (no hay, too many horses, unable to feed them, limited care) has the right to question what kind of home someone else will give them?
    Right. Which is why I made the point of her needing to sell them at auction LONG AGO, before it got to this point. You know, when you can still say "this could be bad, the economy is tanking and I can't afford to feed umpteen horses through the winter in a draught year" or "shit, my emergency fund is dwindling" or any other excuses.

    I don't know ANY DVM who would refuse to euthanize an animal clearly suffering d/t money, especially if the person were able to bring the animal to their clinic (I do it occasionally-I drop them and we load them back in the trailer with the tractor and send them on their way) Why not grow a pair, call the DVM leave a message and when the doc calls you back say "Dr Jones, I have an elderly, lame horse who refuses to eat that I cannot afford to euthanize I don't want him to starve to death how can I euthanize him before he drops too much weight?"
    Michael: Seems the people who burned me want me for a job.
    Sam: A job? Does it pay?
    Michael: Nah, it's more of a "we'll kill you if you don't do it" type of thing.
    Sam: Oh. I've never liked those.



  10. #50
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    If the religion is Mormon, and I suspect it is, and she was Mormon, they would have been all over there helping her out. And I do believe the water issue, because a friend of mine has a place close to Fallon and they're always arguing about water and who diverts what.

    Not to excuse neglect or overbreeding.

    Oh, and that part of Nevada IS desert and everything depends on canals and irrigation. And there is really no economy there, no industry, except gambling and farming. And never was.



  11. #51
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    one last thought-- is the owner trying to get them back? Aside from her concerns that it wasn't done properly, what result is she trying to achieve through these hearings, etc. I can't reconcile trying to get them back when she claims she's been trying to give them away.
    I would be distraught too if I knew my horses went to a sale barn, and I feel truly sorry for her grief. But based on what's been posted, it seems likely all of these horses were on a downward spiral that would continue (even if not all of them were at death's door yet). In that context the horrible truth is that a few days of suffering ending in slaughter is better than enduring more months/years of neglect at her place. And there IS the possibility they'll be re-homed.

    Trying to put myself in her shoes, maybe she feels like of course she have to fight this--what kind of horse owner willingly lets this happen? Having her beloved animals seized would surely be a humiliating public exposure, and not fighting it may be more humiliating still. Focus instead on the fact that the horses need IMMEDIATE food and vet care -- not when you can save up for it, not when you can find time for it. They need it NOW, or they need to be put to death. Unless the HO has a credible plan to make that happen right friggin now, the seizure is the only solution. Stop fighting it and let it happen.



  12. #52
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    Wow, just so sad. It does get hard to rehome horses especially after they start loosing their condition. I find it harder to find a home for a free to a cheap horse then I do for an expensive one. She makes so many excuses though, and that always throws up a red flag for me. Correct me if I am wrong, but were her horses sick with pigeon fever and strangles recently? Not trying to make excuses for her, but that can take a while for a horse to get back to a healthy weight. Does not make an excuse for the hooves though.

    I lost my job a few years back due to the business closing and the best purchase I made was a $50 pair of hoof nippers and a $20 rasp. That saved me tons of money and got me through some hard times.
    My vet is the type to suck every last bit of life out of animals and it drives me insane. We had a mare that was old and declining in health and we called to have her put down. He came out and wanted to put her in a sling and do all sorts of things. She was 32 years old! Let her go in peace.


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  13. #53
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    Jun. 24, 2005
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    http://www.kolotv.com/home/headlines...169555346.html

    Don't know if this is the seizure in question or not, but it sounds bad in that county. Apparently this is the third seizure this year of multiple horses from different owners.

    http://www.ktvn.com/story/19492757/s...s-seized-in-nv
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Plainandtall View Post
    Tamara- While I am not disagreeing with you- I know of many (almost every?) situation involving starvation/neglect/hoarding/poverty/drought/overbreeding/undertraining/unmarketable horses/family crisis etc.... where the carcasses of dead horses- above or below the ground- were included in the laundry list of the "crimes" commited by the owner. meaning- even if you were to kill 4/5 of the herd till you had a managable #... if someone called and complained about what you were doing- I think you would STILL get in BIG TROUBLE. So. while a quick death does solve the horse's problem, it does not get the owner out of the pit of a problem cycle they are in.
    Yep, to this. While it sounds like a bullet will fix all the problems should they get so bad, it won't. Remembering I live in the middle of the wilds of OR, not even close in to a big city, I had in my plans a bullet for my guys should it get bad. Then, last weekend or so, was talking with some other horse people and come to find out, you CAN'T do that anymore without fines and so forth. Long story but that's the crux of it.

    Now, I only have two tubby boys and I'm sure they could disappear and be coyote bait and none the wiser, but, CCH had, what, 20 head?? How do you hide that!! Especially if the sheriff's dept has a hard-on for her (I know, that's really crude) and was watching her clear back when I was there.

    While I'm not wild about how the horses look, they are well bred, and I'm entertaining a thought in the back of my mind, that maybe someone has eyes on them. No one can/will help her and then keep calling the law on her. In that part of the world, a good cowhorse is da bomb. Then again, I don't know how that translates into this situ when no one would buy one or she couldn't give them away. Perplexing, no?
    GR24's Musing #19 - Save the tatas!!



  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by justdandy View Post
    For starters, you STOP EFFING BREEDING!!!!!!!!!!!
    Absolutely.
    There were way too many horses for a single person to adequately handle.


    But as for the sale barn solution....their services are not free. And I am sure they don't want to float her a couple hundred bucks in fees so maybe she can make 5 back on a horse....

    It's this crazy phenomenon in this world: 400 people line up to adopt that hard luck puppy from the news, but nobody wants the 10 or so that look just like him except for the TV story.
    The one they had seized previously, I wonder if that was a case like that, too. I mean I think they have to disclose who is selling, county vs private person.


    However, and I am not a lawyer:
    She would not be wise to ask for the horses back, or in a month or so she'd be in the same or worse situation.
    But if indeed the seizures were not according to the book, she better see what she can get from it like monetary compensation.


    ( and yet, if she had send her horses to the salebarn for the KB to snatch them up...I can hear it now...on second thought, calling the KN directly would have been a more prudent solution, cutting out the expense of the auction fee...)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneriding24 View Post
    Then, last weekend or so, was talking with some other horse people and come to find out, you CAN'T do that anymore without fines and so forth. Long story but that's the crux of it.
    I think we need more of this long story.

    I just do not get that you are not allowed to euthanize by bullet.


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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    I think we need more of this long story.

    I just do not get that you are not allowed to euthanize by bullet.
    I am assuming - unless you are breaking firearms laws - it's krewel.....
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.



  18. #58
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    I'm willing to bet the issue isn't using a bullet, but the disposal.
    Quarry Rat



  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosey_2003 View Post
    I'm willing to bet the issue isn't using a bullet, but the disposal.
    That is what I was wondering too. That is why I would like more details.



  20. #60
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    It's exactly as Derby Lyn says, you can learn to trim your own horses and not let them stumble around in elf shoes. This case is tragic all the way around.

    The articles I found both say that there will be a hearing in about a week over the charges and seizure, and that would have been this week I think. If the newspapers get that, then what are the chances that CCH didn't? I think there's a lot of denial going on, and with the condition of the hooves on most of the animals, I don't think body condition is the only factor either. And it does say that seized animals are sent to auction, so I believe the animals will be gone soon and this time there won't be any screening or anything else. Poor horses, they should have had a better life than this.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



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