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  1. #381
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    Also from Dorothy.


    Told him that if the old horse didn't show improvement by Aug 1 I would be making decision to put him down. Several mares that had sand colicked (place is 10 acres and at least 12 feet deep in fine sand) were pulled from the field, treated, put in separate pens and given more feed to help gain back what they had lost. Vet testified last week that they could dramatically loose wt with sand and it could take a long time to regain...stated gain rate of 1 to 1.5 lbs a day so even a 75 lb wt loss could take more than 2 months to gain back.
    41 minutes ago · Like


    He also testified that if that was the case with these horses it was not an indication of neglect.
    41 minutes ago · Like


    Regarding foals (long yearlings)....they boarded out for winter/early spring in exchange for two breedings to perlino stud to a couple mustang mares...gal had river bottom land. Got the mares covered early spring and then the boyfriend of the gal called to say they had had a big fight and split and she'd left, leaving horses. Got them back late April (don't remember exact date) with pot bellies, bad feet, no handling, no worming, thick, matted coats with burrs etc. Moved here immediately after that bringing foals with. Spent some time getting them haltered and treated for worms and feeding. Used Safeguard first..not much effect. Then used a generic Ivermectin and two had really nasty photosensitive sunburns within a couple days...progressed to peeling, cracking, bleeding on legs. Since they weren't broke to stand tied yet and handling caused severe pain reactions I elected to let legs heal before grabbing and holding feet for trims.


    Treated legs with sprayed on diluted aloe vera and they were gradually healing.
    36 minutes ago · Like


    Meanwhile, sand colicked horses were doing better (and all horses were on feeders....got a few from some nice people by way of local radio classified ads....to keep them from eating on sand). Old stallion continued to go downhill and I called vet regarding putting him down....was told price and that it would be required to be paid in full at the time including disposal fee if done at the clinic. I had just put almost $1500 into getting a new pump, pressure tank, generator to get water on the place (other than pond for the mares)....was hauling about 1000 gallons a day for the penned horses for the first two months I was there.
    33 minutes ago · Like


    Should have had $ for putting him down early Aug....and then my sister died....colon cancer and went downhill much more rapidly than anticipated. Put horses, tack, harnessing, carts, blankets, etc for sale, begged for work, had fliers around town, even put them on Craigslist. I had $ for feed (buying 40 or more bales of 105-115 lbs each every week) but not for additional things that all came at one time.
    30 minutes ago · Like


    Lots of things very wrong with this whole thing. Nevada brand inspectors actually taking part in seizure (head inspector said this was not to be done) and one (Deveny Nelson) posted within an hour of leaving my place to the "rescue" that she had a big bunch (can't remember exact wording...have a screen shot saved) for the rescue...using her position as brand inspector to hustle for a rescue? She belongs to several animal rights groups.
    28 minutes ago · Like


    She's also posted that the place was a dump, that there were a lot of feral cats (not one seen in any sheriffs dept photos and unlikely to live well with the high coyote population around here)....yes....weedy and lots of trash...had been vacant/abandoned for almost 2 years with racoons, a single cat (one was all I saw) and some birds living in the open house when I took the place. Perimeter fence good but cross fencing/pens a joke.....I've raked and burned almost 4 acres, put up my pens (smallest 12 x 12..."too small"....with others ranging from 12 x 16 to 18 x24 for single horses and 32 x 46 for a couple of mares penned together).
    24 minutes ago · Like


    Mares/fillies were hauled together with stallion(s) and brand inspector said they were separated at the sales yard.....not true as there are photos of 3.5 year old stallion and 1.5 year old colts with the mares and fillies in one pen.
    17 minutes ago · Like


    Horses were immediately free fed high quality alfalfa (sales yard feeds mostly cattle so much of the hay is probably dairy quality)....if the horses were truly in a starvation condition this would likely have killed at least several of them.
    15 minutes ago · Like


    Horses were immediately free fed high quality alfalfa (sales yard feeds mostly cattle so much of the hay is probably dairy quality)....if the horses were truly in a starvation condition this would likely have killed at least several of them.
    16 minutes ago · Like


    NV law says clearly that a horse sold to cover a board bill must go through a board lien foreclosure process.....bill to the owner with 30 days to pay it, certified letter to notify of intent to foreclose, publication in three places in the county for 10 days plus one publication in local paper and sale to be held not less than 10 days nor more than 15 days after publication. No more horses can be sold than to cover the board bill...any oversale money goes to the owner (for example...10 horses, board bill of $450, 5 horses selling for $100 would be the max allowed to be sold with remainder of horses and $50 oversale to go to the owner).
    12 minutes ago · Like


    Owner also has option of having independent appraisal and the lien holder to take horses based on that appraisal to cover the bill with remaining horses to go back to the owner.
    12 minutes ago · Like


    In addition, horses sold to cover board bill are not clear titled...owner has one year under law to "redeem" them for what they brought at sale plus 25%.....so if a horse was sold for $70 the amount the rescue should have paid for the board which is limited by law to $5/day/head and they were there for 14 days when the rescue supposedly paid their board bill...although as of yesterday the sales yard had not gotten the money from the sheriff's office.....I have the right to redeem those horses for the $70 plus 25% or $98 each...and have that right for a year after the sale.
    9 minutes ago · Like · 2


    Now add in the legal obligation of the DA's office and the sheriffs office to maintain "evidence" and to make the evidence available to the defence in a criminal matter to be examined directly.....and the horses are no longer available.
    5 minutes ago · Like
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  2. #382
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    I don't like the things I'm reading about this rescue plus that which CCH posted about. I posted a bit back, if the horses were getting a lot of hay all of a sudden, if they were that bad, it'd make them sick. Dairy hay is the highest, most potent of hay. A lot of horse people avoid it, it's very rich.

    I checked a bit ago, the rescue has only $130 so far in donations.
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  3. #383
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    Why put breeding/pregnant and foal-by-side mares on so much sand? They look like they are eating sand or nibbling food in the sand although their weight seems good. I could easily see many sand colics occurring. What a sad situation; if they were on grass, this may not have happened...

    Don't know about the long elf feet though - that takes 4-8 months of no farrier at least to happen, maybe longer. Poor things.



  4. #384
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    I was just reading on the rescue's FB site and someone said the Paints have blood not commonly seen. When I visited CCH, she pointed out one of her studs had blood that was rare for Paints. Something like the only known Paint son/grandson of SomebigAQHAstudhorse. Since I haven't kept up with blood in quite a while, it didn't really register with me.

    Makes ya kinda wonder, huh??
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  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneriding24 View Post
    I was just reading on the rescue's FB site and someone said the Paints have blood not commonly seen. When I visited CCH, she pointed out one of her studs had blood that was rare for Paints. Something like the only known Paint son/grandson of SomebigAQHAstudhorse. Since I haven't kept up with blood in quite a while, it didn't really register with me.

    Makes ya kinda wonder, huh??
    well, considering that in another seizure the breeder of a rare breed horse was not able to get the animal back and it has since disappeared from view...nope, can't say that it does.
    But then again, I have been accused of wearing a tight fitting tinfoil hat...
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  6. #386
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    Rare does not equal valuable. That unfortunately is the mistake many breeders make. These are unbroke horses the owner couldn't sell for $750.
    Sometimes bloodlines are 'rare' for a reason



  7. #387
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    I have followed this story in the local news and stumbled across this thread . I have not read the entire thread but there are a few misconceptions . Fallon is not a Mormon town it's actually a military town and has the Navy Air Base - Top Gun . It also has a lot of water for this area they grow hay there . I don't know this lady or of her but I do know horse people in Fallon my farrier lives there . It has the usual mix of horse people old backwoods types , young horse people , cowboys . The economy here is bad and lots of people are having trouble , it would be very hard to give away an unbroke horse . BLM horses ( mustangs ) are $175 at the holding pens there are loads of them for free here on the aftermarket. I don't think it would be hard to find someone to put a horse down out there . I live in a different county but it's legal to bury horses here if you own over an acre . Wells here are usually pretty deep 100'-800' and ground water contamination isn't an issue . Hay is easy to come by either from the farmer or the feed store . Having read the stories on the local news and part of this thread it sounds like a pretty typical Nevada story , things were great here then they weren't .



  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChelseaR View Post
    Rare does not equal valuable. That unfortunately is the mistake many breeders make. These are unbroke horses the owner couldn't sell for $750.
    Sometimes bloodlines are 'rare' for a reason
    well, maybe yes, maybe no.
    Unbroke means not much to a breeding operation. It's better than broke down.

    But if the rumors are true, the 'rescue' is a breeding operation and snatching up horses left and right...that is pretty scary!
    Not to mention having the authorities in the pocket....
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  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChelseaR View Post
    Rare does not equal valuable. That unfortunately is the mistake many breeders make. These are unbroke horses the owner couldn't sell for $750.
    Sometimes bloodlines are 'rare' for a reason
    This. According to CCH's quoted posts she's been trying to sell off these horses for a while (although exactly how long ago she dropped her prices seems more vague, at least according to what I read on one of the links a few pages back with CCH posting that she won't give the horses away), so it's not like people were lining up for the animals, rare bloodlines or not.

    It also seems that both the vet and sheriff's deputy testified in...well, if not in glowing terms at least not in a way that would railroad CCH (post 380 here). Which leaves me confused as to who else testified negatively enough for a seizure.

    The rescue seems shady as hell, I agree. But just because the rescue might be shady doesn't mean CCH is on the up and up either - it's entirely possible for CCH to have been a neglectful owner, and for the rescue to be a shady dealer/breeder/RARA/whatever.



  10. #390
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    What possible relevance does the state's laws re: selling for unpaid board have in this situation?
    What's wrong with you?? Your cheese done slid off its cracker?!?!



  11. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    well, maybe yes, maybe no.
    Unbroke means not much to a breeding operation. It's better than broke down.

    But if the rumors are true, the 'rescue' is a breeding operation and snatching up horses left and right...that is pretty scary!
    Not to mention having the authorities in the pocket....
    Yes. Alarm bells ringing.

    And I call bullshit on the need to have a 30 day quarantine on horses that look pretty healthy to the naked eye. If you are a rescue, you should be able to evaluate horses quickly and take advantage of homes offered as soon as possible unless the horse is in poor enough condition to require stabilization. Especially a rescue that is rumored to have so many horses on hand. I could see that it would take some time to weed through potential adopters, especially if the rescue insists on fully vetting each one but to say they need 30 days to evaluate health? Let the adoptee take care of the trims and regular vet care.

    I guess it might take them 30 days to determine which ones they want to keep for their won breeding stock..



  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by sketcher View Post
    Yes. Alarm bells ringing.

    And I call bullshit on the need to have a 30 day quarantine on horses that look pretty healthy to the naked eye. If you are a rescue, you should be able to evaluate horses quickly and take advantage of homes offered as soon as possible unless the horse is in poor enough condition to require stabilization. Especially a rescue that is rumored to have so many horses on hand. I could see that it would take some time to weed through potential adopters, especially if the rescue insists on fully vetting each one but to say they need 30 days to evaluate health? Let the adoptee take care of the trims and regular vet care.

    I guess it might take them 30 days to determine which ones they want to keep for their won breeding stock..
    The adopter could do a quarantine as well. If they have other horses, those other horses would already have their shots and what-not. It is known from where these horses came. They were at the sale barn but checking past horses, have their been any outbreaks of rhino or strangles??

    ETA: I had something in here about the saddle but after rereading, don't really think it's relevant that much. The way whomever it is writes about the horses does bother me, though. Their terminology is 'off'. That's one of the big alarm bells for me.

    Whether or not the blood is rare or not, I think most of the horses were homozygous and that is a big deal. I'm not up on that stuff, but, I remember CCH telling me the small spots on the larger white areas mean something really good in breeding terms.
    Last edited by goneriding24; Sep. 27, 2012 at 10:27 AM. Reason: /
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  13. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by goneriding24 View Post
    The adopter could do a quarantine as well. If they have other horses, those other horses would already have their shots and what-not. It is known from where these horses came. They were at the sale barn but checking past horses, have their been any outbreaks of rhino or strangles??
    They sound like a new, overzealous organization. SOMETIMES those people mellow with experience, and sometimes they get more insane.

    When I first was in rescue, all of our horses were completely rehabilitated, completely vetted, etc. before they went up for adoption. However that was 14 years ago and the horse world was in a better place. It would have been hard to adopt out skinny horses with no vet work.

    Now, our guys don't officially go up for adoption until they're rehabbed, vet work has been done, and they've been evaluated to see what they know. BUT we have people contact us about horses who aren't up for adoption often, and we work with them to set a reasonable adoption fee (often no fee if the horse hasn't had vet work done yet and they're responsible for the vet work).

    I can't imagine jumping into rescue with so many animals at once to care for. Are they all on one property? The first year I ran my first rescue, we took in a whopping 8 horses. The next year I think it was 24, then 32, etc. NOW we often take in 100+ in a year, but we've worked up to that point.

    In the end, I hope the horses are ok. I used to have a lot of anger for the owners horses were seized from, but now I often feel sympathy instead. (there are exceptions - a recent case we worked on with 5 dead horses is an example of an exception!). I hope CCH is also ok and recovers from all of her troubles (it looks like the horses weren't the only issue troubling her life).
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  14. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coanteen View Post
    This. According to CCH's quoted posts she's been trying to sell off these horses for a while (although exactly how long ago she dropped her prices seems more vague, at least according to what I read on one of the links a few pages back with CCH posting that she won't give the horses away), so it's not like people were lining up for the animals, rare bloodlines or not.

    It also seems that both the vet and sheriff's deputy testified in...well, if not in glowing terms at least not in a way that would railroad CCH (post 380 here). Which leaves me confused as to who else testified negatively enough for a seizure.

    The rescue seems shady as hell, I agree. But just because the rescue might be shady doesn't mean CCH is on the up and up either - it's entirely possible for CCH to have been a neglectful owner, and for the rescue to be a shady dealer/breeder/RARA/whatever.
    Yes exactly. Unfortunately for the horses here it seems like a no win situation.

    Rescue seems shady and unprofessional, conditions around the seizure are suspect, CCH was obviously in over her head and at least the yearlings, at least one mare and stallion were badly neglected even if some horses were in good condition, and give her previous failure in efforts to sell, the horses are likely only able to be priced by the pound.

    Ideally what do I think should happen? Not that anyone's asking me

    If I ruled the world:

    Let CCH chose if she wants to keep a few of the healthy mares as long as she could provide proof of incoming funds to feed and water them and commit proper hoof care etc and monitor the situation. Provide education about the states guidelines for min standard of horse care (every state seems different).

    Hold a public auction with a reserve above meat prices for the rest of the healthy horses and if the profit is greater than the fees occurred caring for the horses split the remained between CCH and a reputable rescue.

    I've seen people online say that they would want one for a reasonable price so maybe that and the publicity from the case would bring buyers this time.

    Send the horses in poor shape or those that don't sell to the same reputable rescue.

    Of course this is all assuming facts are basically what has been shared here which is very likely not completely true.

    Hmmm maybe I should get back to my plans for world dominance.



  15. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChelseaR View Post
    Yes exactly. Unfortunately for the horses here it seems like a no win situation.

    Rescue seems shady and unprofessional, conditions around the seizure are suspect, CCH was obviously in over her head and at least the yearlings, at least one mare and stallion were badly neglected even if some horses were in good condition, and give her previous failure in efforts to sell, the horses are likely only able to be priced by the pound.

    Ideally what do I think should happen? Not that anyone's asking me

    If I ruled the world:

    Let CCH chose if she wants to keep a few of the healthy mares as long as she could provide proof of incoming funds to feed and water them and commit proper hoof care etc and monitor the situation. Provide education about the states guidelines for min standard of horse care (every state seems different).

    Hold a public auction with a reserve above meat prices for the rest of the healthy horses and if the profit is greater than the fees occurred caring for the horses split the remained between CCH and a reputable rescue.

    I've seen people online say that they would want one for a reasonable price so maybe that and the publicity from the case would bring buyers this time.

    Send the horses in poor shape or those that don't sell to the same reputable rescue.

    Of course this is all assuming facts are basically what has been shared here which is very likely not completely true.

    Hmmm maybe I should get back to my plans for world dominance.

    I think in the little word 'reputable' lies the problem...if I am assuming right, they are all full up....
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  16. #396
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    Again, I have NEVER heard of a rescue that doesn't want to be contacted - that it "takes away from the horses".

    A rescue with this type of mentality will NEVER get the meaning of "reputable".
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  17. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by sketcher View Post

    I guess it might take them 30 days to determine which ones they want to keep for their won breeding stock..

    Just jumping in here to note... I work in dog rescue and it is so often the breeders who end up taking in animals seized. Not because of something rare/expensive/etc but because

    1) they know the breed and can more intelligently evaluate what they have and what it needs in terms of placement

    2) have the space & connections to handle the animal's medical needs, rehab, etc (existing relationships often with scale discounts with vets, etc)

    3) love their breed and "give back" by doing rescue work

    Horse rescue of course is different by far, they are much larger and don't (typically) live in your house but I would imagine in at least some cases the drive to rescue is the same.

    In this case, those feet by themselves show how long there has been a problem. Added to continued breeding, at least for 2011 foals when the market was already down, shows CCH was not seeing reality.

    It is so much easier on oneself to blame others covetousness (sp?) for your horses being gone. They didn't sell at her prices because she over-valued what she had. Period. Sounds like she continues to overvalue them by deciding that is why they are now gone.....

    CGJ I know you have to have heard it: you got that dog/horse for free! Why does the rescue charge so much money for adoption?!

    And the answer is, NO ONE makes money in rescue. No one. If you truly are vetting the animals and checking out the adopters you lose time, money and sometimes your hair (as you pull it out).

    I'm not defending this rescue specifically, it certainly sounds like there are many reasons to be worried about their being over-horsed, underfunded possibly understaffed and maybe on their way to being a problem but I personally do not think (after seeing the pictures and reading her own words) that CCH can complain about her horses being seized. Their feet alone and the time it took for them to get that bad show she should have been prepared for their seizure for a long, long time. Perhaps even before the July 1st date noted previously where she got her first "written warning"....
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  18. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    I think in the little word 'reputable' lies the problem...if I am assuming right, they are all full up....
    Yeah, just daydreaming really... Horse rescues in this economic climate must be insanely difficult to keep running.



  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chester's Mom View Post
    Just jumping in here to note... I work in dog rescue and it is so often the breeders who end up taking in animals seized. Not because of something rare/expensive/etc but because

    1) they know the breed and can more intelligently evaluate what they have and what it needs in terms of placement

    2) have the space & connections to handle the animal's medical needs, rehab, etc (existing relationships often with scale discounts with vets, etc)

    3) love their breed and "give back" by doing rescue work

    Horse rescue of course is different by far, they are much larger and don't (typically) live in your house but I would imagine in at least some cases the drive to rescue is the same.

    In this case, those feet by themselves show how long there has been a problem. Added to continued breeding, at least for 2011 foals when the market was already down, shows CCH was not seeing reality.

    It is so much easier on oneself to blame others covetousness (sp?) for your horses being gone. They didn't sell at her prices because she over-valued what she had. Period. Sounds like she continues to overvalue them by deciding that is why they are now gone.....

    CGJ I know you have to have heard it: you got that dog/horse for free! Why does the rescue charge so much money for adoption?!

    And the answer is, NO ONE makes money in rescue. No one. If you truly are vetting the animals and checking out the adopters you lose time, money and sometimes your hair (as you pull it out).

    I'm not defending this rescue specifically, it certainly sounds like there are many reasons to be worried about their being over-horsed, underfunded possibly understaffed and maybe on their way to being a problem but I personally do not think (after seeing the pictures and reading her own words) that CCH can complain about her horses being seized. Their feet alone and the time it took for them to get that bad show she should have been prepared for their seizure for a long, long time. Perhaps even before the July 1st date noted previously where she got her first "written warning"....

    LOL, I am certain there are aspects that make money for a rescue, or there would not be so many scam artists in the business.

    Most breeders I know would not want anything wormy and infested with who knows what come to their farm.
    It's bad enough to have regular traffic with healthy horses carrying stuff around.

    Dog breeders are a different crowd. They are often involved in other than breeding with their dogs and feel an obligation to the animals they produced and by extension to the breed, even if the specimen came from a pet store. They are more equipped to deal with 'damaged goods' than your average pet owner. Having seen more than a handful of dogs in their lifetime.

    Horses are on the other hand a different matter. any good horse person who never foaled out a mare can evaluate a horse. You don't even have to be a rider (but that helps I am sure)

    And most breeders have been feeling the pinch themselves in the last years...

    CCH were not in the best of shape, absolutely. A couple were outright bad.
    But that can happen in a hurry when the manure hits the fan. And it seems the whole pile had taken aim for it on her little slice of heaven in the last year! (and seriously, people...I know she was just glossing over her sister dieing of cancer, but golly, I did not get along with mine and it was a hard hit when she died...and she had insurance and family support, so no major bills to catch up with after she was gone!)

    (Seriously....the vet demanded payment for euthanasia at time of services for the old guy?! That is messed up! I know he does not want to eat the cost, but when the animal is that far gone! Give him 20 grams of bute and don't call me in the morning?)

    All aspects in itself don't mean a lot.
    But as the puzzle pieces are put together, this looks like one gigantuan manure tornado to me...
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChelseaR View Post
    Yeah, just daydreaming really... Horse rescues in this economic climate must be insanely difficult to keep running.
    It is very difficult. You have to be realistic, evaluate what you can handle, and stick to it. Even saying that, we do sometimes stretch our limits - but we stretch them by taking in 1-2 horses more than we should. Not 30. And we do have savings in reserve for the really tough years..
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