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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appsolute View Post
    Hopefully this will serve as a lesson to anyone that takes breeding lightly, or thinks that owning numbers in the double digits is a good idea.
    Wow.
    How important you think you are that you spreading your "distain" around so liberally is going to serve as a moral admonishment to the rest of the world. They better geld their colts because APPSOLUTE has some "distain" to parcel out in an internet box. I'm going to tell all my friends who own double digits in horses (and I have a few) that APPSOLUTE has some "DISTAIN" for them. Oh won't they think twice then!

    It is so much more about people getting their rocks off being awful to others than anything else. Transparently so. Somehow it must feel really great to rip into people who are already on the hardest of times.



  2. #202
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Yeah, I don't know many people who donate resources or time to a cause after posting all over the internet how THEY would never have been in that situation and what a complete degenerate the recipient is. Really seem like mutually exclusive activities.

    Oh, hi, you degenerate. Here's $100 and some extra halters. You are a miserable excuse for a human being and I would never be in your situation because MY life is pulled together. Let me tally the endless list of ways that I am more responsible than you. Can I help you fix that fence? You should have just dug a hole and shot those horses. How about I pay the vet bill so your special needs senior gets euthanized. You should have known better. Any reasonable person would have taken them to a sale months ago. Why don't I swing by with a trailer and help you move them to my friend's farm with good forage.

    Suuuurrre.
    I think that everyone here reading and the ones posting are worried about the situation, about the horses and yes, also about the poster in question and any others out there that may be getting in over their heads.

    I think that posting here, responding to what is being discussed is part of how worried everyone is about the situation.

    It seems to be a bad situation, that could only get worse, but we really only know the little we know.

    Each one comes to this with what they know and that is why we post as we do, right or wrong.



  3. #203
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    May. 17, 2010
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    Where humidity isn't just a word, it's a way of life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Are you deliberately missing my point?

    I am saying that the people who go on and on about how she could have gotten help on COTH ARE NEVER THE ONES WHO ACTUALLY HELP.

    Sure there are people who quietly lend a hand. They are not the ones being jerks online about it.

    It is never the ones making the big stink on the thread. They think they look all awesome in their indignation but frankly exactly 0 horses are helped by them. All that comes of it is whatever satisfaction they feel for eviscerating someone else on the internet. They get their kicks typing nasty words in boxes, help no one, and quietly hope their anonymous zingers are super powerful in case person reads they were posting and feel extra special low. Woo hoo, what a kick! They're super awesome!

    Yeah, help is help. The loudest criticizers never give it. Their only contribution is negative.
    I totally agree that many of those that make a big stink are the not the ones that help, but for all we know some do.

    And when the help is offered, sometimes those making the stink may send a "dribble" (isn't that what everyone calls it?) just to be able to post that they, too, did something.

    And their posts-for-kicks can keep a thread at the top of a page so that others who don't visit every couple hours see it and may help, too.

    So, sadly, all the grandstanding may actually do a little bit other than making themselves feel superior and the subject of the thread feel bad.

    And I think (I hope!) you underestimate the intelligence of many of those who read this forum. The grandstanding and "I know soooo much better" posts can be impressively obvious, as can the "Oops, I have this great zinger that wouldn't work if I actually addressed the facts posted so I'll ignore them so I can show everyone how witty I am" posts. I believe these things are seen and filed away by many, to be kept in mind when considering certain people's posts.

    So I ask, what does it matter whether the loudest, brashest, nastiest posters are the ones that help or not, as long as the help is received?

    Okay, I've been called a pollyanna before, so have at it.



  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I think that everyone here reading and the ones posting are worried about the situation, about the horses and yes, also about the poster in question and any others out there that may be getting in over their heads.

    I think that posting here, responding to what is being discussed is part of how worried everyone is about the situation.

    It seems to be a bad situation, that could only get worse, but we really only know the little we know.

    Each one comes to this with what they know and that is why we post as we do, right or wrong.
    Please let's not try the old, "We're just so wooorrrriiieeedd."

    It is possible to be worried and treat people awfully, and one can also be worried and treat people with kindness. (Guess which one actually does more good in the world?)

    I guess it is more fun when everyone is jumping along with their pitchfork too trying to get their little stabs in instead of one sticky wheel going, "Hey wait a minute. Y'all are acting like JERKS." I feel for the horses too but you don't see me eviscerating the owner.



  5. #205
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Please let's not try the old, "We're just so wooorrrriiieeedd."

    It is possible to be worried and treat people awfully, and one can also be worried and treat people with kindness. (Guess which one actually does more good in the world?)

    I guess it is more fun when everyone is jumping along with their pitchfork too trying to get their little stabs in instead of one sticky wheel going, "Hey wait a minute. Y'all are acting like JERKS." I feel for the horses too but you don't see me eviscerating the owner.
    Oh, ok.



  6. #206
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    Nov. 1, 2005
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    Ok, am I seeing things? Did I miss part or misinterpret part of the video?

    The black and white paint looks horrendous. It was not hers.

    The grey in the still picture looks very bad. Was that one confirmed to be hers? Are they just showing pictrues of all recently seized horses? Hard to excuse the condition of that horse.

    The old lame horse that was euthed...bad. From what I could see from the video he looked thin but quite frankly, I have seen thinner horses in the fields of some highly regarded horse people. Old horse should not have suffered. Lots of people lose perspective about when to euthanize, it is not good..but it is not uncommon.

    I saw one set of very bad feet. Again, no excuse. But why only one set of bad feet? Is it clear they belonged to the lame yearling? His feet were not visible in the video.

    The yearling could be lame for any number of reasons including an abscess. Abscesses are very painful and hard to watch but stall rest is contra-indicated

    As for the rest of the paints? To be perfectly honest they didn't look that bad to me. Clearly not in show condition but not starving either.

    So I see a lame yearling with no indication as to why he is lame.
    One very thin grey horse for which there is no excuse.
    An ailing horse that should have been euthed but wasn't.

    Obviously owner was in over her head, needed to stop breeding at any cost (give away the studs if you have to)
    but did the majority of the horses actually look like they were in fact starving??
    I love cooking with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.



  7. #207
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    Dec. 21, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    The thing that gets me (aside from her not asking for help), is that she is pro-slaughter, and we are repeatedly told how slaughter prevents neglect, yet she neglected her horses. So that tells me that she was in denial, and apparently only is ok with OTHER horses going to slaughter.
    A bullet is cheap. There were no pleas for help on here, no horses of hers on the Giveaways forum, etc. There was no attempt to get rid of the horses, or help the horses. Apparently her pride was worth more than the horse's wellbeing.
    Just because someone agrees that the slaughter option is needed doesn't mean they choose that option first thing or run their horses through the auction all "excited" to use it. You don't know who she might have asked for help or where she might have listed them as giveaways ( i think FB was mentioned).

    Where was she supposed to put the horses?
    1. Auction -- no buyers and still have to pay a commission fee if not sold and pick up again.

    2. Rescue -- Sorry all filled.

    3. Euthanasia -- not only expensive ( if your vet will do it) but the burial is really expensive.

    4. Giveaway/ Sell-- Looks like she tried that, people were just knocking down the door to incur more expenses in life.

    5. Bullet and call a Rendering Company-- Might have been a good possibility depending on -- If it was available and If they would charge her .

    I really don't blame her for not asking for help here. She sure isn't getting much compassion now. When you have no money some of these options are not a reality. From the article it looks like she was trying to feed them. When you are in a situation like that I don't think you see things as they really are. Like we see it after the fact. It is almost like someone in an abusive relationship. We council them to get out and they keep hoping it gets better and continue to live in it until it cannot be ignored. I think she's been through enough already.



  8. #208
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    Nov. 16, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    I am saying that the people who go on and on about how she could have gotten help on COTH ARE NEVER THE ONES WHO ACTUALLY HELP.
    Never?

    Not that it matters, but exactly how do you know this?



  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by joiedevie99 View Post
    There are a few too many excuses for my liking in that story. The photos look bad. Between the elf shoes, the dead lame yearling, and the two totally emaciated ones- I'm not going to fault the government for taking the rest away as well. It's upsetting if it wasn't done in a legal way, and if she wasn't given a chance to tell her side of the story.
    30 skinny, poorly-kept horses says Shades of Hoarder to me. She says there were no takers for any of her horses, yet when goneriding24 asked about the stallion, she said it was spoken for. Did she in fact sell that stallion? Did she just not want it gone because she didn't want it gelded or was she being greedy on price?

    Hay is around $15 a bale in much of California right now. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to project whether you can afford to feed 30 horses over the next year, it's simple math. She says she couldn't afford to euth, but she could have done it herself with a gun and very little money -- way less than the cost of an internet bill.

    As for her paranoia over who was calling in the complaints, it doesn't matter. What matters is that there was clearly justification for complaints, whoever did the filing or calling, and if she spent as much effort figuring out how to file down that horse's slipper feet, finding a rancher who could help her shoot some of her horses, or convincing herself to actually let go of some of her horses to interested buyers, she could have taken care of the situation in a humane way.

    As for the help from Cothers, who knows what resources and help she might have found. The thing is, it needed to be done months ago before her horses were starving and dying and stumbling around on bad feet.



  10. #210
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    Sep. 11, 2008
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    The one thing I have learned is never say never. That NEVER somehow manages to come back and bite you in the ass.

    Quote Originally Posted by Appsolute View Post
    Nope, sorry, it could NEVER happen to me (or should I say my animals!), because I do not acquire more animals than I have a safety net for!

    I HAVE been there. I took a 50% pay cut in 2008 (a year after I bought my horse). Hubby was laid off shortly after my pay cut, and being as both of us were just a few years out of college we did not have savings to fall back on. Times were TIGHT. I know things CAN go south.

    That is why I have ONLY ONE HORSE. I know that I could not provide for more than one horse in the “bad times”. I have a twofold safety net for my horse. A family friend with a large property – and horses, who has agreed to take my mare, and another back up for that one as well should I end up on desperate times.

    It is fairly easy to place ONE horse – 30+?!?! Very hard – especially when they have not been trained, handled, and well cared for.

    My hubby is always saying – Lets get another horse! And I always say NO, because even if it seems like a great idea now, if we hit a bump in the road again, I know an additional mouth to feed would be a huge burden.

    Breeding this number of horses AND NOT TRAINING AND HANLDING THEM is mind boggling to me. I give NO EXCUSES for it. It is failing the horses period. No one wants little neglected untrained horses. No one. And to create so many of them?!?

    I find having that many animals irresponsible – and BREEDING THEM I find very very irresponsible.

    My worst case disaster scenario – I have ONE horse to euthanize. That is a pretty easy to handle situation.



    Exactly! Having that many horses is a HUGE responsibility / liability. Its like trying to feed and care for 15 children.



  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by hundredacres View Post
    Never?

    Not that it matters, but exactly how do you know this?
    Well it seems highly unlikely that someone would spend so much time eviscerating someone on the internet while simultaneously helping them out.

    But who knows. Maybe there are a few who like to dish out their help with a side helping of denigration and "distain." I suppose I could remain open to that possibility while still finding it highly unlikely.



  12. #212
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    Nov. 7, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    Well it seems highly unlikely that someone would spend so much time eviscerating someone on the internet while simultaneously helping them out.

    But who knows. Maybe there are a few who like to dish out their help with a side helping of denigration and "distain." I suppose I could remain open to that possibility while still finding it highly unlikely.
    I could see a scenario where someone who helps out (perhaps locally rather than with the specific case being discussed) finds it somewhat cathartic to rant and complain online about someone who is too far away to help because of the work they do locally. They might really want to let the local idiot have it but if they do that then the person will stop cooperating with them, so someone online is a safer target for the frustration.



  13. #213
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    Jun. 20, 2009
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    At this point I will chime in with the following

    1) We need a national registry of horses, so we know who's got what, where, and how many.

    2) COTH could possibly be a better place if people posted under their real names. There is both a lot of abusive behavior and a lot of wasted energy that is encouraged because people participate with absolutely no risk to themselves, whilst they harm others...

    We could do more to help each other, and the horses, if people would own their opinions and behavior.



  14. #214
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    Jun. 24, 2006
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    I wish I had known, I would have helped. I know three or four people off the top of my head who could have taken one or two, and I could have called something small into her feed store. I absolutely would have gotten the word out and helped.

    Stuff happens, she probably thought the drought would end and she could ride it out but with that many horses, things go from a rough patch to emergency very quickly. Do I think I would ever have 33 horses? No, I knew someone with 17 and it was way too much work and when times were tight, she struggled hard. But that is me, I believe out west large herds are much more common as well.

    As for the hooves? Well, I don't have anything to say for her in that regard but sometimes when someone feels they are going down on a sinking ship, things that should never be overlooked are when they are that overwhelmed.



  15. #215
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    Nov. 16, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by Isabeau Z Solace View Post
    At this point I will chime in with the following

    1) We need a national registry of horses, so we know who's got what, where, and how many.

    2) COTH could possibly be a better place if people posted under their real names. There is both a lot of abusive behavior and a lot of wasted energy that is encouraged because people participate with absolutely no risk to themselves, whilst they harm others...

    We could do more to help each other, and the horses, if people would own their opinions and behavior.
    I think it's rare when someone gets the pleasure of total anonymity on CoTH .



  16. #216
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    Jan. 9, 2006
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    COLOREDCOWHORSE if you are reading this (((((((HUGS)))))) and more (((((HUGS))))). You are in a bad spot, and all the hindsight in the world doesn't help right this minute. I wish you were closer, so I could help. I don't have any money, but pasture, I have, and people I know. If you still have any of them, or can get any of them gone to good homes, call me ( I will pm my number) and I will get you their contact information.

    As for those who are tearing her apart, very rarely when something goes wrong does only ONE thing go wrong. It usually comes in doses. I am so glad that some of you are perfect, and have plenty of savings, and emergency funds and great jobs and perfect horsekeeping skills. The rest of us are in awe. NOT. One good storm can fell a mighty oak, roots and all.

    As far as asking for help on this board-I might ask advice, and I might call a couple of people on here, but no way in heck would I post a plea for help. The horse world is too small, and all it would take it someone saying "oh, that so and so was so broke and her horses looked like crud, and she knows nothing about keeping a horse yada yada yada" and so and so's reputation is ruined over a bad patch they went through. Not worth it. There are other avenues to go down, and apparently CCH did-she was looking for extra work (HELLO-novel idea-pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps!!) and that tells you right there that she was not sitting around doing nothing. Were there some mistakes made? Probably, but none of us are in her shoes with her bankbook and her needs, so we don't get a say so.

    For those that were kind about CCH, thank you. For those that were tearing her apart, there but for the grace of God........

    Sometimes I truly despise this place and the nastiness that goes on. There are some really good folks on here, but then there are some that I would cross the street to keep from breathing in the stench of their self righteous ass-hattedness.
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  17. #217
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    Aug. 6, 2002
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    Ditto Gnalli.

    For those who seem so sure they would never be in any trouble of any kind their entire lives, that others might look at them and judge "well, why on earth did they let themselves get into that position? *I* would never let that happen to me"

    ... well I can only shrug & wish you luck. As has been said, it is true most of you won't ever face such trouble. But odds are a few of you will.

    sorry it came to this for you CCH. Hope you can overcome & move on to better times soon.



  18. #218
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    Oct. 26, 2007
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    Yep. I will never have 30 neglected horses. I will never have 30 horses period. I will not be in the same situation because it is much easier to give away, send to sale, euthanize or shoot and bury one horse.

    There are so many options for the single horse owner that are not available to someone with 30+.

    I have been to that edge, thinking the only option was to get rid of the horse. But it is much easier to get rid of one, getting rid of one can be done. Getting rid of 30 is near impossible.



  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Ok, am I seeing things? Did I miss part or misinterpret part of the video?

    The black and white paint looks horrendous. It was not hers.

    The grey in the still picture looks very bad. Was that one confirmed to be hers? Are they just showing pictrues of all recently seized horses? Hard to excuse the condition of that horse.

    The old lame horse that was euthed...bad. From what I could see from the video he looked thin but quite frankly, I have seen thinner horses in the fields of some highly regarded horse people. Old horse should not have suffered. Lots of people lose perspective about when to euthanize, it is not good..but it is not uncommon.

    I saw one set of very bad feet. Again, no excuse. But why only one set of bad feet? Is it clear they belonged to the lame yearling? His feet were not visible in the video.

    The yearling could be lame for any number of reasons including an abscess. Abscesses are very painful and hard to watch but stall rest is contra-indicated

    As for the rest of the paints? To be perfectly honest they didn't look that bad to me. Clearly not in show condition but not starving either.

    So I see a lame yearling with no indication as to why he is lame.
    One very thin grey horse for which there is no excuse.
    An ailing horse that should have been euthed but wasn't.

    Obviously owner was in over her head, needed to stop breeding at any cost (give away the studs if you have to)
    but did the majority of the horses actually look like they were in fact starving??
    This!!!! Does it not bother anyone that that took ALL her horses just because, by my count 4, were bad? She admitted that she had one old horse that needed to be put down, a couple that were thin due to illness and one yearling whose feet were bad. The rest of the horses in the video looked fine. Not roly poly fat maybe but in decent weight with shiny coats.

    Through no fault of my own, I am responsible for about 22 horses. It's a long story but I finally managed to get all the colts gelded except 2 and they will be done next spring. I am working on getting everything halter broke, handled and starting those old enough under saddle. I could just load the whole bunch up and haul them to the kill sale but that's a last resort. I have finally got the facilities where I will be able to work with these horses, but that's another story. I have little help and support but I'm doing the best I can with what I've got.

    Now, all of them are in decent weight, most are fat to obese on grass alone. But, one, my old guy, pushing 30, looks rough, really rough. His teeth aren't good and he doesn't do well once the grass gets dry and tough. I haven't been able this summer to keep him separate from the others and feed him. I also haven't been able to check him every day. So I have to say that I'm rather embarrassed at the way he is looking. Things have changed so now he is getting his senior feed, beet pulp and alfalfa 2x per day. My point is should law enforcement be able to come out and take ALL my horses because one looks bad?

    Also, all you folks that say you want to help someone before the situation gets dire, I have some nice, young haflinger x quarter horse ponies that I'd love to find a nice home for. PM me. I have 3 donkeys too.



  20. #220
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    Jul. 14, 2008
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    Does anyone know where they decided to send the horses?



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