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  1. #141
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2011
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    Lisbon, Portugal
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    1,451

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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    How interesting that you will go on and on about your concern for "the safety of the kids" but when the proprietor or the program you are criticizing welcomes you to discuss your concerns you don't show up. I guess it is more fun to just criticize people while ignoring all opportunities to establish an actual dialog even when they are iffered.

    And the person who found the time to create this thread crticizing another program and was starting to "organize the questions to be asked" was similarly remarkably unavailable when the object of the thread she STARTED said, "Well ok, here I am, let's chat."

    Criticizing people anonymously is great fun when you can imagine yourself scoring zingers over the keyboard and put on some front of "concern."

    You guys are criticizing a REAL PERSON and when they demonstrate the class to hear you out, you bail. Maybe you should quit trying to negatively impact people's REAL reputations if you aren't even willing to talk to them when they offer. Maybe before negatively impacting a REAL LIFE program you should ask yourselves "Is this just a fun afternoon on the internet for me or would I actually take the opportunity to engage in constructive dialog with this REAL PERSON if it arose?" Ridiculous.
    So because i didn't rearrange my life to show up for a conference call I'm not entitled to an opinion. No Sh*t I'm criticizing a "real person". That person is not above criticism because their goals seem to be all high and noble. From the moment someone becomes involved in a public organization, they will be subject to public opinion and not all opinions are good. Someone who is involved in a non profit organization should be under the public eye. Pardon me for being a skeptic but once i donated to a non profit organization every month until i found out the chairman of this non profit and using my hard own money to run for president.
    Yes, I smell like a horse. No, I don't consider that to be a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by DottieHQ View Post
    You're just jealous because you lack my extensive koalafications.



  2. #142
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2012
    Posts
    220

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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    You guys are criticizing a REAL PERSON and when they demonstrate the class to hear you out, you bail.
    The real person in question is also a public figure. There is nothing shameful about discussing a public figure in a public forum (aside from the nastiness and personal jabs that both sides have engaged in). Nor is there anything wrong with discussing a training method that is being promoted and sold on the internet. Consider the Parelli program -- it and its founders are the butt of half the jokes on this forum (and perhaps in the horse world more generally), but nobody gets too bent out of shape about it because they are public figures. Part of putting oneself out there as a professional (or an author or a filmmaker) is accepting the associated spotlight, even when it is harsh.

    I can't speak for all of the folks who have been critical of HB methods, but I believe that many of us were absent from the conference call for the same reasons (including but not limited to prior engagements). Specifically, I have been provided with enough information to decide that I will not participate in, recommend, or contribute to the HB program as it is currently run. I have also already spoken personally with a representative of this organization and have had a chance to discuss some of my concerns directly. This now makes me a lot more interested in the perspectives that fellow dressage riders, TR/hippotherapy professionals, families of autistic children, and horsemen share on this forum (incl. horseboyworld, if they care to participate) than I am in a(nother) private conversation about what the HB folks do. The phone call is simply as irrelevant to me as it is to those who are less critical of the program and similarly did not feel the need to participate.

    As horseboyworld said, all charities should be subject to scrutiny -- I believe that this is the spirit in which MrsFitzDarcy&Feliks started the thread and which has inspired many of us to post comments. And it sounds like horseboyworld has found a bit of a silver lining in the storm cloud of controversy, as Isabeau reports. If that is the only good to come out of this thread, it has already accomplished something, but I think that all of the opinions expressed here might also be useful to someone, someday who needs to evaluate the program without the benefit of horse experience. Not participating in a phone call does not make anyone's concern less genuine, their motives more sinister, or their scrutiny (eta: or support) less legitimate.



  3. #143
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    2,074

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    Quote Originally Posted by meupatdoes View Post
    You guys are criticizing a REAL PERSON and when they demonstrate the class to hear you out, you bail. Maybe you should quit trying to negatively impact people's REAL reputations if you aren't even willing to talk to them when they offer. Maybe before negatively impacting a REAL LIFE program you should ask yourselves "Is this just a fun afternoon on the internet for me or would I actually take the opportunity to engage in constructive dialog with this REAL PERSON if it arose?" Ridiculous.
    Actually, I'd prefer to talk to someone in a venue like this or email rather than a conference call because unless record the call, it can be easy for a good speaker to dominate and side-step questions and so on. Text can be re-read and provides some measure of accountability to reduce "he said, she said" type problems.

    Also, the people who are expressing concern about the risks involved with a program that seems to have safety issues are, in fact, talking about someone's REAL LIFE also - the REAL LIFE of the person (most likely an autistic kid) who could be really horribly injured as a result of not taking proper safety precautions.

    I'm personally more interested in protecting the REAL LIFE of the kid than the REAL LIFE reputation of a program. The program can revamp their image. A person with a TBI is going to have a much harder time declaring 'do over'.



  4. #144
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2006
    Posts
    8,669

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    Quote Originally Posted by kdow View Post
    I'm personally more interested in protecting the REAL LIFE of the kid than the REAL LIFE reputation of a program. The program can revamp their image. A person with a TBI is going to have a much harder time declaring 'do over'.
    And you feel (et al) that interacting with the program through the COTH boards is the best way to do that, even more effective than the more direct means of communication?

    It is one thing if the public figure does not give direct access so the only way to communicate concerns is obliquely.
    That is not the case here. He has given his contact info, both phone and email, and if you want to make sure it is "all typed out" as opposed to "spoken" I am sure he would engage in email dialog.

    At this point when direct communication is more than possible in several mediums and he has both expressed and DEMONSTRATED his willingness to listen, this continued public slandering "in the name of discussion" is just gratuitous.



  5. #145
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2006
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    8,669

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    Quote Originally Posted by Niennor View Post
    So because i didn't rearrange my life to show up for a conference call I'm not entitled to an opinion. No Sh*t I'm criticizing a "real person". That person is not above criticism because their goals seem to be all high and noble. From the moment someone becomes involved in a public organization, they will be subject to public opinion and not all opinions are good. Someone who is involved in a non profit organization should be under the public eye. Pardon me for being a skeptic but once i donated to a non profit organization every month until i found out the chairman of this non profit and using my hard own money to run for president.
    You can rearrange your life to type all this out in emails directly to him since he has provided his contact information, both phone and email, and has both expressed and demonstrated his willingness to listen to what people have to say.

    This is like he is standing there saying, "YES, I WILL LISTEN TO YOU AND HEAR YOU OUT!" and everyone just ignores him and talks amongst themselves instead, patting themselves on the back for what concerned citizens they all are and seeing who can come up with the best "STAY AWAY FROM HIM!" poster to wave around.


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