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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2012
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    Area IX
    Posts
    352

    Default what do you guys think of these OTTB's?

    I have a mare for sale and hopefully she is out in a month or so....
    I really would like to look at these few horses but would like to know what you guys think on conformation wise as well as pedigree. I don't know hardly anything about pedigrees and am trying to learn! I know mostly WHO I like to see but I don't know the whys. and I also am curious if its bad to see a stallion more than once in a pedigree?
    anyway, hope its not too much :/

    What I am looking for in a horse is something that has potential to take me to Prelim or higher, not looking for a resale project.
    I really am a newbie on buying OTTBs so don't hate on me too much!
    I really am into this mare, I almost stopped to look at her on my move home from FL but it was just too much of a hassle with my entire apartment in the back of my car lol

    These two are from the owner and I really would like to look at them both, they are half brothers
    Gotham Junior Pedigree

    Prince of Gotham pedigree

    That is all for now
    Eventers of the West
    A Facebook group I created for Eventers in the West Region of the U.S.
    Remy - My OTTB Gelding! Love him to pieces!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    6,306

    Default

    Why #2 if you're looking for a Prelim candidate? She is suggested for a low-key home.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2012
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    Area IX
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    352

    Default

    oh oops i wonder if this was updated since I last saw it. I'll take it off.
    Eventers of the West
    A Facebook group I created for Eventers in the West Region of the U.S.
    Remy - My OTTB Gelding! Love him to pieces!



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2012
    Posts
    452

    Default

    I love unbridled pollyann. I would go look at her. I would have a vet do a pre purchase to make sure she is sound. Conformation looks good and she looks willing undersaddle. I would be interested to see how she jumps. She looks like a very nice prospect and if I were looking for a horse I would go see her. Maybe have her jump a few fences and see how she does. Needs a lot of conditioning work so I would make sure you would be ready for that. I would also look at prince of gotham. He looks very stunning.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2012
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    Area IX
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    352

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MorganJumper848 View Post
    I love unbridled pollyann. I would go look at her. I would have a vet do a pre purchase to make sure she is sound. Conformation looks good and she looks willing undersaddle. I would be interested to see how she jumps. She looks like a very nice prospect and if I were looking for a horse I would go see her. Maybe have her jump a few fences and see how she does. Needs a lot of conditioning work so I would make sure you would be ready for that. I would also look at prince of gotham. He looks very stunning.
    Those two are actually my favorite of the bunch! I love Pollyann.
    I also am looking for a horse with stamina and competitive attitude - which is how they made Prince of Gotham sound.

    how far should I go for pre purchase? should I do xrays or do you think just a regular check for soundess/breathing/eyes etc? I have only bought two yearlings - and never did the vet checks on them, and the rest of my horses were home-bred. but the buyer who bought my Hanoverian did the whole sha-bang. xrays, scoping and stuff.
    So I am unsure how far is needed to go for a horse that is under 5k.

    They are both at least an 8 hour drive away.
    Eventers of the West
    A Facebook group I created for Eventers in the West Region of the U.S.
    Remy - My OTTB Gelding! Love him to pieces!



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2000
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,601

    Default

    Regarding pedigree, there was another thread here just recently where Unbridled Pollyann was discussed, IIRC. I believe the People Who Know Breeding advised buyers to exercise caution with Unbridled offspring, as they are known for not staying sound, and saying this mare's pasterns make her look as if she may be a candidate for problems.
    Try searching this forum to find that thread, as it did discuss some breeding/pedigree stuff and that mare in particular.
    I evented just for the Halibut.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2012
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    Area IX
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    352

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NeverTime View Post
    Regarding pedigree, there was another thread here just recently where Unbridled Pollyann was discussed, IIRC. I believe the People Who Know Breeding advised buyers to exercise caution with Unbridled offspring, as they are known for not staying sound, and saying this mare's pasterns make her look as if she may be a candidate for problems.
    Try searching this forum to find that thread, as it did discuss some breeding/pedigree stuff and that mare in particular.
    Wow, really? Thanks for the heads up.
    I'll search and see if I can find that thread.
    Eventers of the West
    A Facebook group I created for Eventers in the West Region of the U.S.
    Remy - My OTTB Gelding! Love him to pieces!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2012
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    Area IX
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    352

    Default

    I think I found the Thread. Jeez. I am glad I posted, you really can find out a lot about a horse by pedigrees and such. maybe even someone here has seen any of them
    Eventers of the West
    A Facebook group I created for Eventers in the West Region of the U.S.
    Remy - My OTTB Gelding! Love him to pieces!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 1999
    Location
    Just Enough Farm, GA
    Posts
    2,226

    Default

    I would definitely recommend pulling xrays of ankles and knees just to see what if anything is floating around in there. Three of the last four horses I've bought off the track have had major problems in those areas. One so severe he had to be put down. The most recent is a broodmare prospect and I knew she had a fat ankle, but rolled the dice. I think she'll be fine with time.

    My other guy has managed to stay sound for probably 9 months of the 3 years I've had him. Really, really wish I had vetted him!

    The OTTB purchase price may be cheap, but it costs the same or more to maintain them as a high dollar horse. Don't cheap out on the vetting if you're looking for a competition partner.

    I really like Prince of Gotham! Be sure to ask lots of questions about his temperament. He has Halo fairly close and he was reknown for being nasty.

    Have fun shopping!
    If you believe everything you read, better not read. -- Japanese Proverb




  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2007
    Location
    Marietta
    Posts
    391

    Default

    Side note on PPE's - I paid for a vet to do "the whole shebang" and he did the flexion tests at the end. Horse was trotting lame for like 5 minutes afterwards. Needless to say, did not buy (after xrays confirmed a chip). But could have saved a lot of money if he had done that first.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2009
    Location
    MD
    Posts
    4,073

    Default

    For the cost of that mare and a PPE if she x-rays clean..You Got a Bargain...as far as the unbridled pedigree take it with a grain of salt go try the mare and then if she works out you can say...sucks to be you cause she's mine.

    Pedigrees are a great tool but you also have to actually look at the horse....



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2012
    Posts
    452

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KateMcCall View Post
    Those two are actually my favorite of the bunch! I love Pollyann.
    I also am looking for a horse with stamina and competitive attitude - which is how they made Prince of Gotham sound.

    how far should I go for pre purchase? should I do xrays or do you think just a regular check for soundess/breathing/eyes etc? I have only bought two yearlings - and never did the vet checks on them, and the rest of my horses were home-bred. but the buyer who bought my Hanoverian did the whole sha-bang. xrays, scoping and stuff.
    So I am unsure how far is needed to go for a horse that is under 5k.

    They are both at least an 8 hour drive away.
    I would do 15-20 xrays if he/she is sound when flexed. I would also have them do a hoof test. Make sure you have the flexion and the hoof testing done before the xrays. If they see anything during any xrays have them stop and not keep going.(waste of money). Been there done that. If this horse is expected to go prelim then before you sink money into training it you want to make sure they are sound. I think the Prince Gotham is your best shot. Wasn't gelded early so you will have better development. Trust me it is true. You will also have a lot more personality to get you to the upper levels. I personally always have looked at horses that were gelded late vs ones that aren't. I like leaving them stallions until 3 or 4. I would look at Gotham before the mare. Personally, I think the structure of the horse will be better with gotham based on pedigree.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 27, 2010
    Posts
    216

    Default

    Pedigree notes:

    I wouldn't rule out an Unbridled descendant just because of the pedigree. I like the horse, and Fappiano is a good branch of the Mr Prospectors, IMO. Unbridled's best known sire offspring is Unbridled's Song, and those descendants do have a reputation for unsoundness, but I'm one of those folks who think it's because they are large, growthy, precocious runners who might well do better if they didn't race until later.

    Gotham City couldn't stay sound on the track. He was the fastest horse at a 2YO in Training sale, which may have ruined him. He raced twice and came back with physical problems each time. He's a Halo descendant, and he may have (and throw) some of those temperament qualities- they tend to be tough and unaffectionate horses who take competition seriously. That's good or bad depending on how the trainer, rider, etc., deal with the critter.

    The photos of the Gotham City offspring aren't very useful for an evaluation.

    Please consider contacting Joe at TB Friends. He has access to a ton of TBs, and the price is certainly right (free).



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct. 17, 2002
    Location
    West Point, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,332

    Default

    She is a very attractive mare. Is anyone else seeing what I am seeing in the front end?
    Isn't she fairly back at the knee? I consider myself pretty picky
    when it comes to legs. I would worry about her holding up to the strains
    of eventing at that level or higher. When I first opened her link my first reaction
    was yummmm...but I've looked her her several times tonight and
    those knees bother me.
    RIP Spider Murphy 4/20/02 - 10/31/10



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2005
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    left my soul @ the barn
    Posts
    1,267

    Default

    Idk about the mare....something looks off somwhere in that video. Her hind end looks very stiff to me and slow...I would def do a PPE on here and get videos. I leased a horse that moved like this and she had serious lameness issues. However, it could also be because of the footing, rider, etc etc. Pictures can also be misleading. I think you can find a better prelim prospect than her IMO.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2012
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    Area IX
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    Default

    OK, so far it seems as though I should check out Prince of Gotham first. There are more negative things said about Pollyann, except for what Lamp Chop said.
    I will also check out his half brother for sale. (he only raced once it looks like)
    I will take my trainer with me, she has competed on a few OTTBs so she will know what to look for
    (I just love having all the opinions from COTHers)

    Just a question in advance if he ended up working out - Should I have him Gelded before I take him home, or have him cut with my own trusted vet? I have a place to keep him away from my other horses.
    hopefully that isn't a stupid question.
    Eventers of the West
    A Facebook group I created for Eventers in the West Region of the U.S.
    Remy - My OTTB Gelding! Love him to pieces!



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 8, 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,302

    Default

    Pollyann looks like a hock disaster waiting to happen. Sickle hocks and very straight. Seems a bit tied in at the knees too.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 19, 2005
    Location
    PA
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    12,460

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    Just a pet peeve of mine--same sire does not make a half sibling. They just have the same sire. Half siblings with horses share the same dam.

    Both of the Gotham horses are attractive. One's still a colt so factor in gelding costs (not usually a big deal) and a bit of time for him to adjust. It wouldn't bug me at all. Can't tell much more. I would go look in person and if you like one of them, do a PPE with X-rays of feet, ankles, knees and hocks and anything else that the vet thinks is needed. Some vets will do fewer views if nothing is raising flags. I often do backs now. I also often have them scoped to make sure no major breathing issues. It also let's me know if they have had tie back surgery and whether it was done well!

    You can tell things in the pedigrees but the horse in front of you is more important---especially with geldings!
    ** The difference between genius and stupidity is genius has its limits. -- Albert Einstein **



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 4, 2009
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    MD
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    Default

    Going by the photo alone that mare is NOT Sickle Hocked..they look perfectly normal...yes she may be a hair back of the knee but again factor in the surface/feet and photograph.

    Do not judge the horse completely by that video, depending on the device it was videoed on and the speed of anyone;s computer server video's can be VERY deceptive.
    She travels like a tight fit racehorse...but shows tremendous promise and worthy of an in person look.

    You can arm chair quarter back all you want, but like BFNE I look at 100's of OTTB in person yearly buy 1/4 of that and re-sell same. Use a photo and video as a barameter but if YOU like the horse and it rings your bell, don't let any negotive nellies deter you.
    Just do take a 2nd set of experianced unbiased eyes and get a PPE.

    As to gelding, it depends, track vets tend to be cheaper for the procedure and CANTER usually chips in $50.00..it can run from $175 - $500. I cut my costs by giving my own tetnus booster and having my own Penicillian for post Surgery follow-up and do own pre-op Banamine and I personally like to have the Pen on board before Surgery as well, but thats just me.

    There is no guarantee any horse you buy will go to prelim unless its doing the job. Short of lameness or health issues a horse is only as good as the level its currently solidly competing at, and even then its only a guarentee on that given day when it finishes..

    Hope for best and work with what you get...or sell it and get something else...

    Good luck and let us know



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    10,311

    Default

    To me, I just don't like the mare's front legs. They LOOK spindly. Which may have nothing to do with soundness, I just don't like how it looks.

    Prince of Gotham would be my first choice, assuming he looks good in a confo shot (that's a bad picture). Partially just for the relative novelty of the mare having Dancer's Image a few generations back. And my brother's trainer is something of a fan of Saint Ballado relatives, fwiw.



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