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  1. #221
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    goodpony, I had to go check which video I thought I remembered you and your pony from ... whew, it's that cute bay. I thought so, but I am getting too old for all this running around .

    He's real cute. I'm the fool who is retrainng Maxwell the Cob .



  2. #222
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    the books i have found that were most helpful for on the ground/in hand/flexion work are as

    Classical Horsemanship for Our Time: From Basic Training to the Highest Levels of Dressage
    ^this book has flexions etc and is french

    Schooling Horses in Hand: A Means of Suppling & Collection

    Horse Training In-Hand: Long Lines, Long & Short Reins, Work on the Longe

    and of course the Phillipe Karl book - which unfortunately is ridiculously priced..... fwiw, i have good luck finding out of print books at local tack swaps etc... i have multiple copies of some of the classics that i give away when someone is looking - unfortunately i only have one copy of the PK book.

    GP you might also look into videos - do a search on youtube - while you may not be able to hear , just the visual will be helpful - or it always is for me at any rate.



  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    the books i have found that were most helpful for on the ground/in hand/flexion work are as

    Classical Horsemanship for Our Time: From Basic Training to the Highest Levels of Dressage
    ^this book has flexions etc and is french

    I ordered this one--it was in my price range

    Schooling Horses in Hand: A Means of Suppling & Collection

    I was very curious about this one--wether it was good or not.

    Horse Training In-Hand: Long Lines, Long & Short Reins, Work on the Longe

    I was wondering about this one as from that back cover it said the author was a student of BB---wasnt sure about if that was the route I wanted to go but what do I know?!

    and of course the Phillipe Karl book - which unfortunately is ridiculously priced..... fwiw, i have good luck finding out of print books at local tack swaps etc... i have multiple copies of some of the classics that i give away when someone is looking - unfortunately i only have one copy of the PK book.

    I dreamed about this book last night-LOL! Im going to keep my eyes open for it--ya never know, right. The cheapest one being $75 bucks---but that is less than one would pay for most instruction/clinics at least this is what I tell myself

    GP you might also look into videos - do a search on youtube - while you may not be able to hear , just the visual will be helpful - or it always is for me at any rate.
    Visuals are always helpful--and I do look, but its gotten frustrating not to be able to hear what is said.

    I got curious so broke out my copy of Anja Berans book---and thought since today was technically ponies day off (but I normally go trail riding anyway) we'd fiddle with the Spanish walk. (I became interested after reading this bit from page 119)

    French equestrian art of the previous century includes some valuable gymnastic exercises such as the Spanish walk and trot, which German criticism at the time and also present day purists refer to as artificial gaits. Just a few days ago I saw a few steps of the Spanish walk when a young horse, which had just come in from the field was running loose in the arena, naturally very elevated and very expressive. This was my answer to those who describe such tremendous exersizes of this style of art as artificial. I do not consider it difficult to learn these two gaits. I consider them to be useful gymnastics for all horses without exception and to be valuable aid helping the horses to develop agility and vigor. In order to be of use to the horse they must be executed in good balance, the horse in good spirits, ie the Spanish walk---just as the simple walk -should be in even 4/4 rhythm and the Spanish trot in two time with perfectly coordinated diagonals, just like the simple trot. A multitude of problems can be solved by means of the Spanish walk providing it is done properly with the desired elevation . The Spanish walk for example is just the right kind of gymnastic for a horse that has its croup too high and whose hind legs are impeded by timid action of the forelegs. It is also suitable for a horse that does not collect properly due to incorrect training and thus has too much weight on the forehand . In this case the Spanish walk gives the forelegs more generous expression so that the horse gradually adjusts the incorrect carriage and continues to develop impeccably-----Nuno Oliviera
    It went surprisingly well---and we got our first Spanish baby steps. And it was very pleasant out on the trail working in hand



  4. #224
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    i got a lot out of all the books i listed..... they are a bit different in style, but each of them are quite useful.

    the book you ordered will help with flexions.... and is interesting re: theory.

    i think i might order Richard Hinrichs book next if i had to buy one....

    as for spanish walk.... i am one of those than thinks it is artificial - as i have not seen it where the walk is pure.... but i suppose it would be fun to play with - i personally wont teach my pony anything that i dont want to see offered over and over and over.... so no tricks for him! i learned that the hard way !

    eta: there must be a video for the Richard Hinrichs book

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3HesXQTgDM



  5. #225
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    btw this is one of my fave in hand videos.... i am fascinated with how he takes a youngster and just thru in hand work and walking/halting he is able to produce the first steps of piaffe.... really interesting !



  6. #226
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    Did you mean to post the Hinrichs video twice? Thank you for sharing it.

    Well, Im having fun with the Spanish walk! Though I agree that it seems part trick and part gymnastic but perhaps far more forgiving with more room for error then a novice like trying to teach Piaffe in hand. I have seen horses do a very similar move in the paddocks so its not entirely unnatural to them---but I have seen them do some incredible things left to their own natural play (especially the boys, not so much the girls---they play different). You don't have to remind me about teaching ponies stuff--learned that with the first one! But in the same vein there is also some merit to working on the stuff you want them to learn before you need it. Its a bit like playing with the Flying changes now and then--we play every so often when the canter is just right and he can do the changes easily--then we leave them alone till next time.

    I went out again this evening just before dinner and asked for a few more steps just to confirm---and got about twice the elevation in the steps as I was able to request this morning--very little effort involved there. I have not asked for much forward motion just starting with picking up his feet on cue with just enough room for him to step. I can see no real harm in teaching him to move his feet and reestablishing voice/familiarity with the whip at this point. I dont know how easily transferable it is to performing it under saddle---but I suspect there is less room for error with the SW once you are up there.

    I thought this video (shared by BP) which showed PK doing the Spanish Walk most impressive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k61NB...eature=related only small critisim would be perhaps more invisible aides-but Im not going there.
    Last edited by goodpony; Oct. 27, 2012 at 10:39 PM.



  7. #227
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    I began our in-hand work in the barn almost immediately since Maxwell had, literally, no ground manners, at all.

    He did not know what the "leg" was in the saddle. What a surprise.

    So I began with my "knuckle" exercises, on the ground in the barn aisle. I use my knuckle as if it were a Prince of Wales spur. On the girth and behind the girth.

    I also had to desensitize him to the whip and the lounge whip.

    He had only been pulled through turns and booted forward and had absolutely no idea how to use his rear end to help carry himself ... or halt. He had no halt. At all. Or bend through the body. Only an overbent neck.

    He now bends through the body. He is very proud of how he picks the hind leg up and reaches under as he rotates his haunches, only stepping in front of the other leg by one hoofprint. We also work on the shoulder-in in the aisle.

    I do NOT feed this particular pony treats during training. I give him treats at other times, but not during schooling sessions. I do praise him though, and he knows what that means.

    If he is begging for treats, he will do a turn on the forehand in the aisle or a shoulder-in down the aisle. And he picks those hind legs up and puts them down very distinctly.



  8. #228
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    The value, hidden to some, obvious to others, is the rein being attached to the foot. It is very evident in the PK video that goodpony posted. As to invisible aids, I see the beauty in PKs understanding of the concept of rein directing the foot in that video.



  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by re-runs View Post
    The value, hidden to some, obvious to others, is the rein being attached to the foot. It is very evident in the PK video that goodpony posted. As to invisible aids, I see the beauty in PKs understanding of the concept of rein directing the foot in that video.
    I thought it was the riders seat/leg attached to the hind leg rather than the rein. So interesting to read an alternate view.



  10. #230
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    The seat can attach to the hindleg, frontleg. The riders leg can attach to the horses front leg, hindleg. The rein also attaches to the hindleg as well as the frontleg.

    An understanding of this can be grasped with the SRS`s practice of stirrup stepping. I have to say, the only person who teaches this in detail is Karl Mikolka. I cannot tell you what a difference it made in my communication and understanding when I started to "get" this. Horses instantly understand this and play along and horses that once rushed or were distracted begin to "wait" for and tune in to the rider. It`s not only fun but, as Ray Hunt would say, "The horses body becomes my body." More than just; VERY effective,.......it brings harmony and understanding between horse and rider to a new level.


    SRS = Gueriniere



  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by re-runs View Post
    The seat can attach to the hindleg, frontleg. The riders leg can attach to the horses front leg, hindleg. The rein also attaches to the hindleg as well as the frontleg.

    An understanding of this can be grasped with the SRS`s practice of stirrup stepping. I have to say, the only person who teaches this in detail is Karl Mikolka. I cannot tell you what a difference it made in my communication and understanding when I started to "get" this. Horses instantly understand this and play along and horses that once rushed or were distracted begin to "wait" for and tune in to the rider. It`s not only fun but, as Ray Hunt would say, "The horses body becomes my body." More than just; VERY effective,.......it brings harmony and understanding between horse and rider to a new level.


    SRS = Gueriniere
    It was the 'waiting' I noticed mostly and even in a small way fiddling with the Spanish walk in hand (the connections) made perfect sense to me--I was amazed how quickly my guy could grasp and respond correctly to my 'aids' in just two short sessions. I think its worth exploring for the purpose of truly 'understanding' the mechanics of the walk.



  12. #232
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  13. #233
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    Marduk is amazing, and so regular...and in all gaits interesting.
    I.D.E.A. yoda



  14. #234
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    There is something called the "hand-hip" connection. It has always been my understanding that the rider must learn that first, before they will begin to understand how to control the shoulder from the seat.



  15. #235
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    I know its really stupid---but Im so excited--in just a couple of sessions we took our first higher-marchy-steps which included some forward. He gets it....I thought to try it out under saddle (he's not ready) but he did try really hard to lift his shoulders and extend the neck/balance and he did stay straight (he's not quite making the connection to stretch the leg) but he did try to do something--which sometimes is better than nothing. I plan to keep working with him and see what happens---we are not exactly experts, but so far the exercise is proving to be remarkably simple to teach.



  16. #236
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    GP this is the vid i was trying to post yesterday - Ted, in hand... is it working for you now?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_qdm...eature=related



  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    GP this is the vid i was trying to post yesterday - Ted, in hand... is it working for you now?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_qdm...eature=related
    He's making it look too easy I used to do a lot more In Hand work than I do now (have done all that is shown but the "P" work.) I have a young filly that needs to start doing this type of thing--she is not ready for a rider imo but would benefit from the in hand work.



  18. #238
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    As quiet as that is, imho the horse should be asked to take hh, stay more up and open. Two things would change if that were the case. The piaffe would be fuller, and the rein back would not be wide behind, so the hindleg joints would fold more in both. Working a horse in hand is an art form, something to always be improved by looking at the horse globally and acting on the details.
    I.D.E.A. yoda



  19. #239
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    The Ted video is fascinating to me because he is able to use walk/halt/RB to create piaffe. i watch it over and over...

    i wish i had someone to learn in hand work from - i really do think it is cool!



  20. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodpony View Post
    I know its really stupid---but Im so excited--in just a couple of sessions we took our first higher-marchy-steps which included some forward. He gets it....I thought to try it out under saddle (he's not ready) but he did try really hard to lift his shoulders and extend the neck/balance and he did stay straight (he's not quite making the connection to stretch the leg) but he did try to do something--which sometimes is better than nothing. I plan to keep working with him and see what happens---we are not exactly experts, but so far the exercise is proving to be remarkably simple to teach.
    i am curious how you got him to take higher step?



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