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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
    See, that's why you have to have rules, it's because people lack common sense.


    You have enough sense to off lease your dog in an appropriate place. The OP, apparently, does not recognize the difference between a rural area and an urban one.

    You also haven't be on here whinging about someone else's dog. If your off leash dog runs away, or gets in a fight, you will likely not be blaming it on someone else's dog/coyote. You'll be sad, you might ask for help finding it or paying the vet bills, but my problem with the OPs little drama is that she doesn't want any of it to be the fault of her management of her adorable little aussie pup (is there anything cuter?), but of someone with the "care" of two, ill mannered, aggressive curs that is not following The Rules.


    You won't hate yourself. Until something bad happens. You may be far, far luckier than I am, but next time we off-leash ask yourself this question:

    "Are you feeling lucky today" (in Clint Eastwoods voice)
    Her dog is ON HER PROPERTY. She can manage her dog HOWEVER SHE WANTS on her property.

    And yes, I have weighed the fact that my off leash dogs might eat something that makes them sick/get in a fight with something else and lose (they are small)/run off past my ability to track them with the GPS. I will feel terrible and miss them greatly if this happens.

    However, I have done what some people like to call a "cost benefit analysis." Having them off leash on the collars makes going for hikes tolerable. Were it not for the collar, having three dogs leashed and enforcing a heel the whole way would make the hike intolerable, and thus hikes would not happen. Additionally, my yard is teeny teeny tiny and my high energy hooligans do not get enough exercise in just the yard or on leashed walks alone. I do my best to keep them safe but this must be balanced against their other needs: mental stimulation/exercise/etc. They would be safest locked in their crates all day. If I let them out of their crates for even a minute they MIGHT get into the aspirin!

    So, since I do not have several acres of fenced property to go on hikes with them in, and since in my calculation for me and my dogs the benefits outweigh the risks, they go off leash. My point being that dog owners across the country make the same call every day.

    I am tired of the judgy pants histrionics everywhere in the universe these days, when anyone can see that reasonable people can make a reasonable call to allow their own watched dog loose on their own freakin' property. There is really no need to try to make the OP feel as chastised as humanly possible about it and I wonder what benefit you personally derive from treating OP in this manner.



  2. #22
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    Maybe there is some misunderstanding of dog laws in different communities? Our leash law says that dogs must be leashed off their owner's property. They can most certainly be off leash in their own yard. Leave the yard without a leash, you are in violation, stay in the yard, you're good. If a strange dog runs onto my property, that dog's owner is violating the law, not me.

    I am cautious, there were some incidents last spring that involved a loose, unknown, large dog of some kind roaming the neighborhood and grabbing small dogs (walking on leashes or once, off someone's porch after it tore through a screen door) and tearing them up. It took several weeks for Animal Control to find the dog. Both my dogs are 50 pounds plus and didn't fit the mystery dog's "victim profile", but I still stayed close to them out in the yard until the situation was resolved and had MY territorial, won't back down, ACD on a leash, lest SHE tear the hide out of the wandering aggressive, dog if it came in our yard, I didn't want to get in trouble myself.

    It is not cool, however, to be expected to keep your dog leashed in your own yard at all times because someone else's dog is runni ng loose when there's a leash law. If there's no fence, the dog loose in the yard has to be supervised and have a good recall, but otherwise it's reasonable to expect to be able to have your dog off leash in your own yard, at least in our suburban neighborhood.



  3. #23
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    Aug. 28, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
    See, that's why you have to have rules, it's because people lack common sense.


    You have enough sense to off lease your dog in an appropriate place. The OP, apparently, does not recognize the difference between a rural area and an urban one.

    You also haven't be on here whinging about someone else's dog. If your off leash dog runs away, or gets in a fight, you will likely not be blaming it on someone else's dog/coyote. You'll be sad, you might ask for help finding it or paying the vet bills, but my problem with the OPs little drama is that she doesn't want any of it to be the fault of her management of her adorable little aussie pup (is there anything cuter?), but of someone with the "care" of two, ill mannered, aggressive curs that is not following The Rules.


    You won't hate yourself. Until something bad happens. You may be far, far luckier than I am, but next time we off-leash ask yourself this question:

    "Are you feeling lucky today" (in Clint Eastwoods voice)

    Get over yourself.

    The problem is the pair of aggressive dogs that are not contained in their own yard, not an Aussie pup off leash in its owner's yard. It sounds like at some point soon Animal Control will be dealing with these dogs, and whose fault will that be?

    Just in case I have to spell it out, that would be the caretaker of the aggressive dogs.
    Last edited by grayarabpony; Sep. 11, 2012 at 05:13 PM.



  4. #24
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    2ndyrgal, I thought after the following thread, you might have become less judgmental...guess not. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=351956
    Last edited by LauraKY; Sep. 11, 2012 at 03:38 PM.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  5. #25
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    Jun. 24, 2005
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    I still go with my original posting, and add that if your dog is legal on the property (registed, in contract, etc) that there is nothing wrong with your dog being loose on your property. It's disgusting to me that you can't enjoy your peace and quiet, because of some out-of-control animal that no one seems to want to do anything about. I've been in your shoes, and the good thing is any place I've lived where I had a problem the AC people were also cops, and very vigilant. It's a truly sickening feeling to see another animal go after your dog, on your property.
    Last edited by JanM; Sep. 11, 2012 at 08:43 PM.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  6. #26
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    Dog was on her own property.

    I also didn't read where the OP said the 6 previous attacks were on her or her dog. Just that 5 or 6 other problems happened. Could have been attacks/problems at other locations within the neighborhood maybe?
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  7. #27
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    Aug. 9, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    2ndyrgal, I thought after the following thread, you might have become less judgmental...guess not. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=351956
    Only if the dog or horse chews wood? And of course, if the husband is disappointed in the horse or dog. Whatever happened to 2ndygal's poor horse?



  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by LauraKY View Post
    2ndyrgal, I thought after the following thread, you might have become less judgmental...guess not. http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=351956


    Maybe if she had just put a leash on the horse...



  9. #29
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    Aug. 3, 2004
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    There is NO WAY the OP has to keep her dog on leash in her OWN yard!

    The other dog(s) are absolutely the ones to fault....NOT the OP!

    I'd be more than pissed about this incident if it were me.

    Of course my Dobes would probably have kicked the shit out of that boxer anyway



  10. #30
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    Jan. 25, 2009
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    About 15 years ago, a relative's dog was attacked on her property. AC had to be called to take the other dogs. The officer stated that she was actually violating the leash law because her dog wasn't contained on her property in any way. Had she had an electric fence, the attack would have still happened but she wouldn't have been violating the leash law. Another frien also told me that an an ac officer told her that she was violating the law by having her dog off leash in her yard.
    I do thInk the othe dog owner was at fault here. However, what if the neighbor starts keeping these dogs on a leash? Will the puppy run up to them or in their yard? It makes me awfully nervous when little dogs run up to leashed dogs to say hi. Not every dig is friendly.



  11. #31
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    Leash laws depend on your state, county and/or local laws. For example, in my county, dogs must be on leash or contained when off the owner's property and bitches in heat must be confined in a building in such a way that they can't be impregnated except for a planned breeding. Big fine.
    "We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~Immanuel Kant



  12. #32
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    Wow. I'm shocked not at the leash comments but the tone and severity with which they were sent to OP.
    Lets think about the real issue a little differently: SUPPOSE OP had her dog on a leash - would that have stopped the unruly Boxer from running over, out of control, and jumping at the pup and/or OP? No. If OP had been strolling (or hopping) down the street w/ pup on leash, same issue.

    Even if OP wasn't 100% correct in her rule following, that doesn't alleviate the fact that this Boxer (or two?) could eventually hurt someone if not controlled. So if she goes, tail between legs, back to the house and says, "oh never mind, I'll let it pass because..." What next?
    We don't get less brave; we get a bigger sense of self-preservation........



  13. #33
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    Jan. 16, 2007
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    Legalities aside, in practical terms, it would probably have been even more dangerous for the puppy to be on leash when the other dog came over. When one dog doesn't have room to maneuver or freedom to give the correct appeasement signals (which this puppy apparently did, we don't hear that the puppy was actually hurt in any way), then the situation becomes far more fraught for the dogs. The leashed dog is limited in its options which will make it more frightened and possibly aggressive, and the human is very likely to communicate lots of tension, through scent and leash, that won't calm the situation.

    A lot of squealing and crying is upsetting, but if the puppy wasn't hurt, then it did the right thing in the circumstances, without help from its human.

    I agree that these loose dogs are very problematic, particularly since they don't even belong to the person keeping them and she seems to have no control or comprehension of what she's doing.

    I don't blame the OP at ALL for being upset, because it's scary as h*ll, and the other dog shouldn't have been loose, but I will say that an older dog will often roll a puppy and create a lot of commotion that appears to the humans as if the puppy is about to be killed. In 99% of cases, it's just dogs being dogs. Dogs are bullies, bless their hearts.



  14. #34
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    That is very scarey. I took my year old miniature poodle with me when I dropped by a friend's place. We all live in the country and at home I don't leash my dogs but I did have her leashed and clipped to my waist. We were chatting side by side when one of her dog, a German shepherd, jumped out of her backyard and covered the 30 ft to us before either of us could react. She grabbed by poodle by back of the neck and started shaking her. If the poodle hadn't been attached to my waist she would have died or been severely injured. This happened right between us and we instantly grabbed our dogs. Mine was screaming like a banchee but just had 2 small puncture wounds. My friend had thought the dog was chained in the backyard but then again it was her place.

    What that incident taught me is if I have a small dog it is my responsibility to keep it safe no matter where I am. Being in the right won't bring my dog back if she is hurt/killed. So if I have a dog in a situation that I don't know 100% is safe for them I need to keep them leashed and in my control.

    I would consider this a lucky lesson learned and keep my pup within reach from now on. I wouldn't want to bet my dog's life on being in the right or in the wrong.



  15. #35
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    Nov. 2, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2ndyrgal View Post
    Less than 20 feet away is much too far 'if" the dog meant business. Especially since you are injured. I nearly lost my puppy and I was standing next to him with him on a lease when the attack happened. If I had needed to hobble 20 feet he would have been killed. I was close enough to instantly grab the other dog's collar, choke him off and stuff my fist down his throat to get him to release my little guy.

    "Less than 20 feet away" means you did not have your dog on a leash. That makes you part of the problem, because a lone small dog is a target, an adult standing next to it, in control, is not for most dogs.


    On my farm, my dogs can be off leash under supervision. In public ( I used to live in a subdivision) they were always on a leash. They had a down stay to die for and an instant recall under all, and I mean all circumstances. Yet, they were still on a leash because that is what the rules are.

    If your dog is on a leash, you have an argument. If it isn't, then, sorry, you don't.
    She was in her OWN yard. Why should she go out expecting to have her dog on leash in her OWN yard



  16. #36
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    Yes legally she might have been in the right because she was off leash on her own property. However, if the puppy had been leashed and by her side she could have blocked the incoming dog or sent a couple of well aimed feet in his direction. Maybe the attack still would have occurred but I do think it would have ended much more quickly. I empathize with the OP. Its a darn shame that the dog can't wander on its own property without being put at risk. It's not fair that irresponsible owners and handlers force responsible owners to alter their behavior in order to accommodate their poor decision making. That being said, if there with a known problem dog in the area I wouldn't have chosen to let my dog off leash especially if I had an injury preventing me from moving quickly in the event of an accident.

    I think owners fall along the continuum of paranoia and in this situation leaning towards the overly worrisome/paranoid direction might have prevented this incident. A strong walking stick might be a useful tool next time you go out on a leashed walk. If the dog comes on to your property again or comes after your dog I can't imagine an AC officer faulting you for taking a crack at the dog while defending yourself and your dog.



  17. #37
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    Apparently the attacking animal isn't a constant resident, but one that is being 'watched' by the idiot neighbor. First of all, you can't plan for something that is only an occasional factor, and second, the adult dog should have been under control, and it seems obvious to me that the animal control and apartment management need to actually do something this time. No one should be afraid to let their dog out in their own yard, and apparently other residents have been randomly attacked by the animal also.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  18. #38
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    Default My understanding was the OP lives in an apartment complex

    Of some sort. I took it to mean that the "yard" was really a more common, unfenced area, open to more than just her dogs. I did not say she was a horrible owner because she didn't leash her dog to control it, I said, if you are going to gripe and moan about someone else's unleashed dog, best to have yours under your control. Face it, with most, not all owners, that means a leash.

    I also understand meupatdoes and her multiple dog hiking. That is her choice, she's thought through the decision and made her own, personal choice based on her thinking, her dogs and her area. She isn't on here griping about someone else's choice infringing on her decisions.

    LauraKY, you'll be happy to know that I got a lovely, 20 year old retiree from a local college program that is no longer sound enough to be in work at that level, to keep my other horse company. He chews wood. He also sticks his tongue out and sucks on it, apparently, according to his former home, when he's happy.


    He is currently nibbling his way around the pasture fence, one board at a time. Other than that, he is a complete dear, the most serene horse I've ever encountered. I have no intention of ever sending him on anywhere else. My horse took an instant liking to him, they have been standing within 10 feet of each other for the last week, perfectly content. His manners both in an out of his stall are impeccable, just spending time with him will make your stress go completely away.

    Since the likelyhood of finding another horse that gets along so well with my other is slim and none, I'll simply replace the boards as needed.



  19. #39
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    On the original problem. Since you know this girl is watching the dogs for her boss, do you know where she works? I'd be tempted to give the boss a heads up (even anonymously). If someone were taking care of my dogs I'd most certainly want to know if they weren't supervising them properly and were letting them run loose. Even worse if the dog is attacking other dogs...boss could be exposed to legal liability and not even be aware of it.



  20. #40
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    Woops didn't know I'd spark such a debate on leash laws!

    I live in a gated college community of mostly college students, it's spacious houses--not apartments, and there are fairly generous yards and several dog play areas. It's a very friendly place, I know most of my neighbors and a lot of the other residents who have dogs. People walk their dogs on a leash, but pretty much everyone allows dogs off leash in their own yards or dog play areas. Owners who know their dogs wander diligently keep them on a leash. 99% of the owners I've met are quite responsible and keep good watch and control of their dogs. I haven't heard of any incidents of dog aggression in our neighborhood before.

    I leash my dog when I'm walking in high traffic areas and she wears an e-collar off leash sometimes. A leash is certainly part of her training, but I work with my dog off leash every day since I brought her home as a tiny puppy to come, leave it, wait, and cross the street only when commanded. I expect my dog to listen and behave off a leash and she has to be off a leash to learn that skill. She always receives compliments on her good manners when playing with others.

    This is not the 6th time it has attacked my dog--this is the 6th incident of aggression displayed by the Boxers that I know of. Things like growling and running at neighbors walking by even across the street. We discussed complaining to the office, but no one wanted to be rude to the new neighbor since the dog never actually bit anyone so we said to ignore it until there was another incident. Should we have complained sooner? Probably.

    I talked to the property manager yesterday and she was very understanding and very bothered that the resident had unregistered dogs. She said she would make sure those dogs were never on the property again, and if they were she would be issued the $300 fine for unregistered dogs.

    A big part of my problem is the fact that these dogs are not registered, not neutered (which is against the rules), and over the weight limit. She doesn't even own these dogs and obviously lacks the skills or a leash to handle the dogs in an open area.

    ETA: MelantheLLC-- Lucky for Panda she is the most submissive dog in the world when meeting strangers and wouldn't dare fight back (although she rough houses with her buddies). If it had been either of my other neighbor's dogs they probably would've stood up for themselves and perhaps had a worse outcome. I've seen dogs play rough and tough but this dog honestly looked like it meant business.
    Last edited by SkipChange; Sep. 12, 2012 at 07:02 PM.



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