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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    19,611

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    This dog isn't being profiled due to it's breed. It is being profiled due to his actions. I don't believe there is a place in this world for dogs like that regardless of how much the family may love them. It would break my heart but I would drive the dog to the vet myself were it mine. I would be very surprised if their homeowner's insurance allows the dog to live there.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    8,219

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    I think the AC response is going to depend on where you live. I was surprised to see that on Animal Cops San Francisco, that they couldn't legally do anything about an animal that broke through a fence and ripped a small dog in the neighbor's yard to pieces. I believe there were other instances also involving animal attacks, and the biting animals were never put down, but had restrictions. In some jurisdictions there is also a vicious dog law, and the insurance company should be notified also. It might well be that the dog isn't covered by the owner's insurance either. I've been with insurance companies that definitely wouldn't cover you if you had a dog with a bite history, or after one bite, but also excluded coverage for certain animals too. Some companies won't give you any homeowner's insurance if you have certain breeds also, so it depends on location and the company.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    1,952

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    Quote Originally Posted by MelantheLLC View Post
    Similarly, if a dog gives lots of warning signals--growls, freezing, etc--it is also normal behavior, communicating to the other party that there's a BIG problem here that had better be addressed NOW, or ELSE.
    This in particular is why one of the worst things people can do is train their dog not to bark/growl/etc. When I got my rescue Pirate he did not make a peep about ANYTHING. Luckily, he's a pretty good guy so I wasn't worried about him, like, devouring the neighbor's kid without warning (actually, he thinks kids are FANTASTIC) but it was really weird and unsettling to have him just be blank in situations where I'd expect a dog to do something. (If someone accidentally steps on a dog's foot, I'm not surprised if the dog makes a noise, you know?)

    I was really ridiculously happy when a vet tech and I were cleaning up his leg after he scraped it up falling off a wall like an idiot and he grumbled at us. She thought I was quite bizarre until I explained. (ETA: Just to clarify, it was an "ow, that hurts, I don't like it" type grumble, which I am fine with as long as they don't try to fight or get away or anything. Similar to the sort of thing you might get if you were brushing and caught a tangle. My policy is that you can tell me you don't like it as long as you realize you still have to put up with it if I say so. In exchange, I will minimize the times when you need to put up with unpleasant stuff as much as possible.)

    (He does now vocalize quite a lot more, barking and talking and so on, but given that at one point he clearly learned he wasn't supposed to, I still don't trust that he always will, and so keep a close eye on his body language. I also just don't take him places like off leash dog parks - he was 5 when I got him, I have no idea what his history was before then, and while he's fine with Foxy and with my aunt's dog, it's just not worth the risk if it turns out he has some kind of issue. He has a very nice life without it. )



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada.
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    6,332

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    Quote Originally Posted by Danger'sDelight13 View Post
    Thanks for all the responses guys! Gave me some things to think about.
    We have made a report with AC and the owners are paying the vet bills. They said the dog will most likely have to be quarantined.
    I think part of the hesitation with reporting this incident is that we used to have a dog that was very dog aggressive. We were super careful with her and never put her in situations where she would be able to hurt another dog BUT I do remember one night she dug a hole behind some bushes and went into that dog's very yard (different neighbors) lol The people didn't own any dogs and in my dog's 8 years of life she never offered any aggression toward humans. Accidents happen and I would hate for this dog to be dealt with super harshly just because of his breed rep.
    That being said, my dog's wellbeing comes first and I think we did the right thing!

    Very mature of you. I agree, I know many dog aggressive dogs who are not aggressive towards people. Glad the neighbors are paying your bill,least they can do - but at the same time there are a lot of people out there who wouldnt.
    Hope your dog recovers well!



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    8,219

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    I don't think that the attacking dog is human aggressive (unless proven otherwise), but I do worry about humans getting in the way of dogs fighting, and being bitten that way.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug. 8, 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,230

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    You did the right thing by calling the AC. Your Dad is lucky that he was not hurt as well. A friend and I were pet sitting when one of the dogs went after the other. My friend tried to pull them apart and got bitten. The dog was not human aggressive, was around children on a daily basis, and was a Golden Retriever. She was incorrect to pull them apart with her bare hands and got hurt trying to save the other dog (he lived after getting 400+ stitches). Im saying this because a dog might not be human aggressive, but they can hurt someone who gets in the way.

    In my experience, inflicting pain on the aggressor usually doesnt work and sometimes makes them hold even tighter. A blast from the hose or dumping a bucket of water usually works, but not always. It shocks them and they let go. Act fast and get the dog away or they might latch back on.

    Im glad your dog is ok and that your neighbors have taken responsibility.



  7. #27
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    Nov. 7, 2008
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    Pittsburgh, PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by PiaffePlease View Post
    You did the right thing by calling the AC. Your Dad is lucky that he was not hurt as well. A friend and I were pet sitting when one of the dogs went after the other. My friend tried to pull them apart and got bitten. The dog was not human aggressive, was around children on a daily basis, and was a Golden Retriever. She was incorrect to pull them apart with her bare hands and got hurt trying to save the other dog (he lived after getting 400+ stitches). Im saying this because a dog might not be human aggressive, but they can hurt someone who gets in the way.
    I agree with this, too. My dad and I have both been bitten exactly once each (and he's had dogs for most of the last 50 years) and in both cases, it was from getting a hand in between two dogs.

    (With him a dog attacked our dog at the park, and he was trying to separate them, and with me the two dogs we had were playing and one was a puppy with needle sharp teeth and I got my hand in the middle and so I didn't get bitten so much as my hand ran into his mouth.)



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Feb. 10, 2006
    Location
    Middle of Nowhere, take a right, FL
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    4,425

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    So sorry about your dog.

    But I can't believe this was even a question! Actually had that dog been in my yard he'd be in a body bag because I'd have grabbed my gun instead of the tire iron. If he did it once he can do it again.
    Every mighty oak was once a nut that stood its ground.

    Proud Closet Canterer! Member Riders with Fibromyalgia clique.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2001
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    Toronto, Canada.
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    Quote Originally Posted by summerhorse View Post
    So sorry about your dog.

    But I can't believe this was even a question! Actually had that dog been in my yard he'd be in a body bag because I'd have grabbed my gun instead of the tire iron. If he did it once he can do it again.
    Ahhh...this is why I'm glad I dont live in the States. Clearly the owners of the bullie are aware, have paid for the medical bills and without knowing you cant assume they are NOT going to fix the fence/attempt to correct dog behaviour.

    Clearly the dog is not friendly with other dogs or had a major adrenelin rush due to a barrier syndrome, but what the OP did worked in getting the dog to back off and didnt result in a neighbor shooting a dog.



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2000
    Location
    CT
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    2,362

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    Sounds like things are being handled well. Now the next step is to discuss with the dog owners how to prevent future problems.

    I'm not quite clear on all the circumstances. Sometimes dogs in adjoining yards will "talk smack" to each other. Often the little dogs will be active in barking and "threatening" from the safety of their yard and their little-dog-is-tough delusion. Then one dog gets loose and both are willing to mix it up. Of course the little dog generally gets the worst of it.

    Don't know if it was the case here. Just wanted to point out that it isnt necessarily big mean dog attacking quiet, harmless little dog who was just innocently hanging out. Obviously the owner of any powerful dog has more concerns about keeping the dog confined since the potential to do damage is so much greater.

    Hope you and the dog owner can manage to find a way that you and your dog feel safe. I hope the other dog is not obsessively dog-agressive and can be confined and trained in a humane, safe manner.



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2007
    Location
    Upstate, NY
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    713

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    I had the same thing happen to me last year.
    I did call the AC officer and the police and did have to file a police report. Luckily I did as 3 weeks later the dog did the same thing again.

    It went to court the second time and the dog was ordered to never be off leash and wear a muzzle when outdoors.. Fast forward 10 months later, the dog got out and was on my property again. Luckilyy I saw him before letting my dogs out. Called the AC and police. That time he was removed from the home and taken to the pound.



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Sep. 23, 2010
    Posts
    564

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    Op, I agree that you did the right things. It is good, that the owners are trying to be responsible, and it would be sad if the neighbors dog has to be put to sleep, but you are right to be worried first about your own dog's welfare (and I wish your dog a speedy recovery).



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2003
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    2,930

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    Glad you called AC. At least you have the situation documented and reported. Sounds like the neighbor is doing the responsible thing by paying the vet bills. Hopefully this was a one-time event, and all dogs and people live happily ever after.

    My husband was doing some research on how to break up dog fights, and one suggestion was to grab dog by both back feet, and lift up. Swing dog away from other dog if necessary. I guess this would work with a small or medium dog. Any thoughts on this method?
    It's 2014. Do you know where your old horse is?



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2008
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    2,779

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    Realistically, dog-aggression functions as human-aggression, because dogs have owners and owners are humans and humans will, when they see their dog being killed, intervene. Whereupon the DA dog will "discipline" the human for being a party pooper. Or, if you prefer to play amateur behaviorist, "redirect their aggression." Hence, human-aggression. It may not be the same drive or instinct or whatever, but for practical purposes, it is the same. Google any dog mauling, and read the details. A lot of serious dog attacks (ie, the ones that make the news) originate in an attack on the victim's dog.

    Quote Originally Posted by SquishTheBunny View Post
    Ahhh...this is why I'm glad I dont live in the States. Clearly the owners of the bullie are aware, have paid for the medical bills and without knowing you cant assume they are NOT going to fix the fence/attempt to correct dog behaviour. Clearly the dog is not friendly with other dogs or had a major adrenelin rush due to a barrier syndrome, but what the OP did worked in getting the dog to back off and didnt result in a neighbor shooting a dog.
    What possible objection can you have to killing a dog who's in the act of killing your dog? Yeah, shooting your neighbor's dog is horrific, but the horror started with the neighbor's dog's attack. From what the OP says, the Bull Terrier didn't back off even when it was beaten with a tire iron. If that didn't dissuade him, the mere fact that the humans involved somehow managed to extricate the dog from his face doesn't mean he actually relented later. He probably let go to take a good breath, and the other dog got grabbed away successfully.



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2009
    Posts
    59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blacklabs View Post
    I had the same thing happen to me last year.
    I did call the AC officer and the police and did have to file a police report. Luckily I did as 3 weeks later the dog did the same thing again.

    It went to court the second time and the dog was ordered to never be off leash and wear a muzzle when outdoors.. Fast forward 10 months later, the dog got out and was on my property again. Luckilyy I saw him before letting my dogs out. Called the AC and police. That time he was removed from the home and taken to the pound.
    That's weird that they were seemingly so lenient.

    AC told us they were putting the dog down (even though they said this was a first time offense for this dog) so we dropped the charges.



  16. #36

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    Glad you called AC. I once had to report my own dog. She didn't "bite" but her face hit my daughters when she was cornered and trying to get away. The one time dad was watching. He wasn't. His version of watching was doing dishes with his back turned. Daughter got a cut above the lip and I took her to ER.

    By the time I got there they said I did a perfect job cleaning it out and agreed it wasn't a bite so much as the dog and kiddo head butted as pup tried to escape. Dr apologized and said she had to report. I told her I knew and the next day someone from the county came to take her pic. She ran to the door happily, stood on command for pic, and guy was gone in 15 seconds. It was her only offense though she didn't like to be cornered and molested by children.

    I wish I could have reported the then hubby for being an idiot. Apparently dog had been making a fuss for 10-15 mins at least and he never turned around. Grrr. Glad you reported the attack.
    "You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars;
    you have a right to be here." ~ Desiderata by Max Ehrmann



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Location
    Alabama
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    8,219

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    Danger's-at least now the neighbors are on notice that their dog is a danger to other animals. If anything else happens, then AC will know the dog has a history, but hopefully this was a one time incident, and maybe a bad escalation of two dogs that really hate each other for some reason.

    And the varying responses of AC, (around here AC is the Sheriff's officer who is a cop) it is simply local laws and authority. From the different Animal Cops shows it varys by location with the authority of the AC people, the state and local laws, and in some locations it depends on exactly how existing statutes are interpreted also.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



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