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  1. #901
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    Oct. 21, 2003
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    I have had great luck with SmartMare Harmony. My last mare would get really emotional when she was in season, it made a HUGE difference.

    I now put my new mare on it even though she has not gotten mareish since I have had her.



  2. #902
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    Nov. 2, 2009
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    Heart of Dixie
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
    Just got back from a 3-day clinic with Francois Lemaire de Ruffieu at Southmowing Stables in Guilford, VT. If you ever, EVER have the opportunity to work with him, it's not to be missed! Most fun I've had in a dressage lesson in 20 years--no joke! And the people who run the barn could not possibly be nicer.

    Not a pure Baucherist, I'd put Francois right there with Gen'l. L'Hotte as someone who's achieved the perfect fusion of the principles of La Guerinere and those who came after. Rigorous, demanding work but he makes it FUN! Do a group lesson if you can and then a private for maximum effect.

    He clinics in other places in the US and Europe throughout the season.

    I so want to clinic with him again. He is fabulous. He used to come to my farm on a regular basis. I got out of hosting the clinics when my heart horse retired. Now I have a new horse that I am working his methods with. I still have my 3 page warm up sheet that he wrote for me and use it all the time.



  3. #903
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    Apr. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Perfect Pony View Post
    I have had great luck with SmartMare Harmony. My last mare would get really emotional when she was in season, it made a HUGE difference.

    I now put my new mare on it even though she has not gotten mareish since I have had her.
    Addressing several comments above:

    With respect to "competent trainers," I would dismiss from that category anyone who is demanding that a rider push a horse into the bit without a release of that contact when the horse complies; those who think "collection" equates with "compression." The horse himself will tell you if your riding is correct! For the good of the horse, you ARE better off working on your own, with awareness and feel, than working with someone who demands that you work the animal in a way that is deleterious to him and unproductive to you. I stand by that.

    With respect to the above potions and nostrums--you cannot "medicalize" away RIDER PROBLEMS. One syndrome that drives me mad among "dressage people" is the fad for believing that non-existent "nutritional deficiencies" are responsible for horses going crappy. I have ridden rescue horses starved 3/4 of the way to death who floated over the ground and had light mouths and instantaneous, 100% response. THIS IS A TRAINING and RIDING ISSUE, FOLKS!!! Hold the SmartPaks and face the true issues and shortcomings!

    Rant Over,



  4. #904
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    Apr. 17, 2012
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    1,961

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hpilot View Post
    I so want to clinic with him again. He is fabulous. He used to come to my farm on a regular basis. I got out of hosting the clinics when my heart horse retired. Now I have a new horse that I am working his methods with. I still have my 3 page warm up sheet that he wrote for me and use it all the time.
    It's hard to go wrong with what he says; but I think you have to have been riding for a very long time to appreciate its true simplicity.

    May the Cadre Noir live 10,000 years!



  5. #905
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    Aug. 28, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post

    With respect to "competent trainers," I would dismiss from that category anyone who is demanding that a rider push a horse into the bit without a release of that contact when the horse complies; those who think "collection" equates with "compression." The horse himself will tell you if your riding is correct! For the good of the horse, you ARE better off working on your own, with awareness and feel, than working with someone who demands that you work the animal in a way that is deleterious to him and unproductive to you. I stand by that.
    Was anyone arguing that you shouldn't? Did I miss something?

    PS I hope you're not referring to any posters on this thread.
    Last edited by grayarabpony; Oct. 13, 2012 at 11:30 PM.



  6. #906
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    Mar. 3, 2010
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    Sorry, Swamp Y. I disagree with you thinking that all things are rider error or training problems.

    I had two mares that had hellacious heats and they would be on their toes behind, unable to flex. In the spring they would be on the ground with apparent horrible colic. My vet threw his hands up. I didn't.

    Did a little research and found that the Moody Mare would indeed help and they would flex fine and NOT be on the ground dying of pain!

    Passed this on to all my clients who had mares that went FINE except when in heat and then they would short stride, buck, go hollow etc. They too had good results.
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ? Albert Einstein



  7. #907
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    Apr. 17, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsefaerie View Post
    Sorry, Swamp Y. I disagree with you thinking that all things are rider error or training problems.

    I had two mares that had hellacious heats and they would be on their toes behind, unable to flex. In the spring they would be on the ground with apparent horrible colic. My vet threw his hands up. I didn't.

    Did a little research and found that the Moody Mare would indeed help and they would flex fine and NOT be on the ground dying of pain!

    Passed this on to all my clients who had mares that went FINE except when in heat and then they would short stride, buck, go hollow etc. They too had good results.
    Wondering if your pastures don't harbor some "hellacious" phytoestrogen plants; or you've got endocrine disruptors in your water. Never in life have I seen a mare in heat on the ground as though with colic; and my broodmare used to throw some bodacious big follicles! Current little girl bucked me off once while in heat, but that was my stupid riding and I deserved it. I doubt raspberry leaves would've helped her, and the MoodyMare was ME!



  8. #908
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
    Wondering if your pastures don't harbor some "hellacious" phytoestrogen plants; or you've got endocrine disruptors in your water. Never in life have I seen a mare in heat on the ground as though with colic; and my broodmare used to throw some bodacious big follicles! Current little girl bucked me off once while in heat, but that was my stupid riding and I deserved it. I doubt raspberry leaves would've helped her, and the MoodyMare was ME!
    i gotta agree with you SY.... in all aspects - but just to clear something up: one thing i have learned (the hard way) is that an uneducated rider has no idea how to interpret what they are being told nor do they have the skill or feel to really give aids correctly....

    this is why i would not judge a trainer by what the rider is saying.... instead i would want to see the trainer train several horses only then would i make a judgement !



  9. #909
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    Mar. 3, 2010
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    Well since my clients horses were spread all over the country I guess there were a great many places in all different climes with phytoestrogen plants and endocrine disruptors.

    Folks that did not often clinic with me often went with regumate or things suggested by their vets. Unless costly and chemical they didn't trust it.

    I cannot believe you think mares are all perfectly made without hormone problems!

    Ask me to dance when MY hormones are out of whack! Guess you two just breezed through menopause!
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ? Albert Einstein



  10. #910
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    Apr. 7, 2012
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    Every rider and handler is a trainer whether they like it or not. HORSES are very observant and are constantly learning from the person, they are constantly reading you and thinking about what they see, hear and feel from the person.

    People need to become aware of how they are perceived by their horses and what the horses are learning from them EVERY MINUTE that they are around them. THEIR TRAINERS are not there 24 hours a day, translating every little thing and I believe that to become a good horseman, you have to spend a lot of time with your animal, on the ground, in the saddle, observing and thinking about what you are seeing and feeling.

    People have a way of becoming dependant on a 'trainer" and stop becoming aware, thinking they need to learn everything they need to know from the trainer, when they really need to be learning from their best teacher, the horse itself.

    Sure, it is great to get guidance, no one learns this stuff by osmosis but.......I see a trend these days, perhaps it got started because we have such busy lives and are pulled in so many directions, but there are people that get dependant on "a trainer" and they stop thinking for themselves.

    Not aimed at anyone in this thread, just a general observation.



  11. #911
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    Oct. 21, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by horsefaerie View Post
    Well since my clients horses were spread all over the country I guess there were a great many places in all different climes with phytoestrogen plants and endocrine disruptors.

    Folks that did not often clinic with me often went with regumate or things suggested by their vets. Unless costly and chemical they didn't trust it.

    I cannot believe you think mares are all perfectly made without hormone problems!

    Ask me to dance when MY hormones are out of whack! Guess you two just breezed through menopause!
    No flipping kidding! So giving a mare herbs to hep with her heat cycles is somehow "medicalizing" things. Sorry but that's just nuts IMO. I have difficult periods that are helped immensely by drinking teas that help with the cramping, bloating and hormonal issues. Some mares have more difficulty that others. Seriously WTF?

    And horses DO have serious nutritional issues and needs that effect performance ALL THE TIME. Horses kept in un-natural conditions need proper nutrition, Omega 3s, vitamin E, different vitamins and minerals that they don't get in dried hay. A horse isn't any different than any other athlete that needs proper nutrition.

    Wow, just wow.



  12. #912
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    May. 25, 2006
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    Nor Cal
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    Quote Originally Posted by re-runs View Post
    Every rider and handler is a trainer whether they like it or not. HORSES are very observant and are constantly learning from the person, they are constantly reading you and thinking about what they see, hear and feel from the person.

    People need to become aware of how they are perceived by their horses and what the horses are learning from them EVERY MINUTE that they are around them. THEIR TRAINERS are not there 24 hours a day, translating every little thing and I believe that to become a good horseman, you have to spend a lot of time with your animal, on the ground, in the saddle, observing and thinking about what you are seeing and feeling.

    People have a way of becoming dependant on a 'trainer" and stop becoming aware, thinking they need to learn everything they need to know from the trainer, when they really need to be learning from their best teacher, the horse itself.

    Sure, it is great to get guidance, no one learns this stuff by osmosis but.......I see a trend these days, perhaps it got started because we have such busy lives and are pulled in so many directions, but there are people that get dependant on "a trainer" and they stop thinking for themselves.

    Not aimed at anyone in this thread, just a general observation.
    I too have noticed this same trend--and almost posted something similar yours. Some people really are incapable of developing an intuitive since/feel from the ground or in the saddle. Its not that it cannot be learned but generally is best developed over a lifetime of learning. But that is half the joy of it---the being open to lifelong learning.

    I have known mares with extremely painful cycles---one in particular that no amount of intervention, training, medical, chemical, mechanical (marble) could alleviate her violent colic-like episodes. She was euthanized during one of these episodes--she was the most extreme case I have ever seen in my life and was a true danger to herself and those around her--it was absolutely tragic for her young owner. Very sad loss.



  13. #913
    Join Date
    Sep. 13, 2000
    Location
    Greenville, MI,
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    12,049

    Thumbs up I could not agree more..

    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
    Addressing several comments above:

    With respect to "competent trainers," I would dismiss from that category anyone who is demanding that a rider push a horse into the bit without a release of that contact when the horse complies; those who think "collection" equates with "compression." The horse himself will tell you if your riding is correct! For the good of the horse, you ARE better off working on your own, with awareness and feel, than working with someone who demands that you work the animal in a way that is deleterious to him and unproductive to you. I stand by that.

    With respect to the above potions and nostrums--you cannot "medicalize" away RIDER PROBLEMS. One syndrome that drives me mad among "dressage people" is the fad for believing that non-existent "nutritional deficiencies" are responsible for horses going crappy. I have ridden rescue horses starved 3/4 of the way to death who floated over the ground and had light mouths and instantaneous, 100% response. THIS IS A TRAINING and RIDING ISSUE, FOLKS!!! Hold the SmartPaks and face the true issues and shortcomings!

    Rant Over,
    Swamp Yankee, to your second paragraph. For years I have been baffled by that. If it is not working, must be nutritional.
    Lord what did we do 30 years ago.
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  14. #914
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    Oct. 21, 2003
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    This thread has now gone off the deep end. Horses don't have hormones nor nutritional needs. I bet horses don't react to poor fitting saddles either? And ulcers and arthritis are a figment of peoples imagination? I have already heard from people that most neurological horses don't really exist.

    I never realized horses are really machines.



  15. #915
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    Mar. 3, 2010
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    1,435

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    50 years ago we TURNED THEM OUT. TIme off healed all things.

    We also didn't have GMO foodstuffs and for the most part the farm owners grew their own hay fertilized with horse manure. THe only processed feed I remember from back then was horse and mule chow checkers. ALL horses ate oats and barley and corn. No crap feeds, no chemically sprayed hay.

    WE actually had a lot of hand pumps too so no water sitting in vinyl hoses or plastic buckets. THey had lots of iron and copper in their diet because of metal buckets and pipes.

    THey were bedded on straw or bagass or rice hulls. Not exposed to strong irritants that can be found in shavings. Some folks bedded on leaves and peat.

    Very few drugs of any kind available for horses but they got warm mashes and hot compresses. We didn't leave lights on to stop hair growth in winter but with a kerchief over our nose we curried the crud out of rug like fur. Old grooms knew the medicinal value of herbs and poultices.

    All sorts of PEOPLE drugs and chemicals were not leached into soil and water except the obvious places similar to the love canal. No Round Up, we used hand tools to clear fences.

    Yes some folks did use creosote fly spray and we probably did some stupid stuff. We fed tobacco and peanut butter to worm. THis was untreated tobacco not the garbage they sell today. Seemed to work for us!

    You had spring grass found, road founder and mare founder and it was rare. None of this founder on a dry lot nonsense.

    WHen a horse does not want to work for me correctly, with happiness and joy, there is something wrong with them. I have trained and ridden enough horses over a very long period of time that I know how their body should work. When it doesn't you find the cause.
    Last edited by horsefaerie; Oct. 14, 2012 at 10:53 AM. Reason: shpeeling
    “Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.”
    ? Albert Einstein



  16. #916
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    Apr. 7, 2012
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    302

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    "TIme off healed all things."

    We called it "tincture of time" and "Dr. Green" (pasture).

    It WORKED!



  17. #917
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    Aug. 14, 2004
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    7,539

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    fwiw, i think that there are instances of the various issues in horses ... but NOT the endless numbers that people nowadays seem to think....

    what works for the majority of horses and what has worked for ages is correct feeding/training/riding..... the problem is that people nowadays want instant results... and i guess they cant stand the idea that *maybe* it is them... so instead of looking to themselves they get a new saddle/the chiro/smarpaks/etc etc etc...

    all of this is just nonsense for the MAJORITY of cases. get a real pro in the saddle and most of the issues melt away.

    i guess as someone who is anti marketing i just dont buy into all the current fads for the quick cure....

    i also believe in the tincture of time.



  18. #918
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    Aug. 28, 2006
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    Endless numbers?? People don't post on the Internet about their horse problems if they don't have any or can find local competent professionals to help them.



  19. #919
    Join Date
    Oct. 21, 2011
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    93

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    I worked my horse last night on the flexions and it was very good. His mouth became very soft, withers up, and this trot became very suspended. However, I also noticed that his feet were clicking. I think the hind feet were hitting the front. He is a big one for not using his hind end, does the clicking mean that he was getting his hind feet under neath him?

    He is a Swedish Warmblood with a short back and compact body. Very baroque looking.



  20. #920
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    Apr. 7, 2012
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    Horses live by movement. We are still learning how important that is to a horse, physically and mentally (also sociaily, for horses are herd animals and are troubled when they cannot satisfy that need). I think in this way, we are doing better at understanding........do we follow the advice? We now have to contend with lack of space like never before. There was a time when horses were kept predominately on large open pastures, period. Now they are kept in turn out paddocks at best and that is called "living outside 24/7". It ain`t the same as being in a herd, running up and down hills and eating a natural diet.

    I do not want to get off the subject and go down a tangent but, I DO have to say that after studying barefoot trimming with some very respected professionals at the front........I now look at a horses feet as four little hearts, that with every step, pump blood all through the horses body and that it is ESSENTIAL for good health, the way the Creator/nature/evolution designed them, they need to MOVE. Movement is why horses will change their minds about who is moving them and the mental changes and thus physical changes that happen when horses are allowed to move certain ways such as untracking the hindquarters and shoulder in. It is how they are wired.

    You just cannot keep horses like lab rats and expect them to stay sane and thus healthy. Each and every person who touches that horse should have a knowledge of a horses physiology and what is important holistically to answer the needs of that species in order to keep it healthy. Instead we approach horsemanship in the opposite way........we buy a horse and then hire someone to do our thinking for us. I read an excellent quote the other day, it something along the lines of "Instead of spending $ 3,500 on the purchase of a horse and $ 500 learning how to ride it, perhaps it should be just the opposite, ..........it would be better to spend a few bucks on a horse and the majority of the expense learning about it." Which has pretty much been my motto, all of my life. I have always had cheap horses, even competed and done quite well on them (mostly OTTBs) and I have spent heaps of years and invested even more piles of money learning about them but..........THAT is what I have horses for........they facinate me!



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