[Coyoteco]

The people I know who changed their minds on abortion did so as a result of the partial birth abortion and post birth abortion issue. People I knew suported Roe v. Wade which doesn't seem to contemplate these late term and post term abortioins. Obama supports post birth abortion (killing the baby if it survives the abortion). (His record is clear.) The democratic party proposes that all abortions, including partial-birth and post birth abortions be covered by Obama Care.

Do you support partial birth abortions?
Do you support post birth abortions?
At what age should the right to terminate a surviving baby's life end? (assuming minutes or hours here, but you tell me). Then that raises in my mind the question of what end of life support should be legally required? Then I think of the 18 year old woman in southern Colorado who let her baby die after an unassisted childbirth, and they were talking of seeking the death penalty -??????????

[stolen virtue]

Late term abortions. This is when defects are found in the fetus after 20 weeks gestational age or the mother's health is in danger. Also, you may not know this but amnios are safer after 22 weeks and cause more misscarriages when performed earlier. They are performed earlier because because of this hysteria of people like you, coyoteco.

Walk a mile in the parents shoes facing this horrible decision. But I'm sure the propaganda you read states that women have late term abortions because they are lazy and want to inflict as much pain on their fetus as possible.

Edit: I support people's right to make decisions like this in private, between themselves and their doctor. Clearly you and others want government to choose for them. And it is not pro-abortion it is pro-CHOICE !

[LauraKY]

Post birth abortions? Where, when? Based on two Australian researchers who were looking for feedback on the bioethics of the idea?

[rmh_rider]

I thought late term abortions were what casey anthony did to her daughter.

And others who murder their child well after they were born into the world.

[carolprudm]

Late term abortions. This is when defects are found in the fetus after 20 weeks gestational age or the mother's health is in danger. Also, you may not know this but amnios are safer after 22 weeks and cause more misscarriages when performed earlier. They are performed earlier because because of this hysteria of people like you, coyoteco.

Walk a mile in the parents shoes facing this horrible decision. But I'm sure the propaganda you read states that women have late term abortions because they are lazy and want to inflict as much pain on their fetus as possible.

Edit: I support people's right to make decisions like this in private, between themselves and their doctor. Clearly you and others want government to choose for them. And it is not pro-abortion it is pro-CHOICE !

THIS!!!

[PeteyPie]

I believe that the choice of abortion should be between a patient and her doctor.

Since this is a horse forum, I have to ponder how interesting this choice is from the point of view of valuing the individual animals compared to humans. I was watching Dr. Pol deliver a calf, and he was talking about how important it was to save the cow because she was worth a lot, but the calf not much. This is true with mares in foal as well, when sometimes the foal must be cut out of the mare to save the mare. I can't imagine too many people, if given the choice of saving their pet dog or the puppies she was trying to bear, would choose the puppies. Yet with people, there is this whole segment of society that values the life of the infant over the mother, that says, if we have to choose, we choose the life of the infant.

Many mothers might agree with saving the infants rather than their own lives. So be it, it should be her choice.

[AKB]

My understanding is that under Obamacare, states decide whether or not to allow insurance companies in their exchanges to cover abortion. Obamacare does not mandate that abortion be covered or excluded. If anyone has more details, I'd like to see them.

Late term abortion is pretty rare in this country. While I don't like late term abortion, I believe it needs to be an option. Years ago, when daughter number 1 was a baby, at a wedding I sat next to a woman who had just had a late term abortion. She cried as she told me that the baby was severely malformed, with a huge head and excessive amniotic fluid. She was becoming very ill with high blood pressure and difficulty breathing. She and her husband wanted this baby to survive, but were told that was not possible. She was told she might die if she did not have the abortion. She had the abortion. Later, she and her husband were able to have children. I felt so sad for this woman and her family, but glad that abortion was an option for her.

I've also had women tell me horrible stories about complications after abortion in the years before abortion was legal. I don't ever want to see women endure that again. Making abortion illegal just means that unscrupulous, unskilled people perform the abortions and maim women. Abortion does not disappear.

[JGHIRETIRE]

WTF is a post birth abortion? After birth isn't it a little late???
The decision to have an abortion should be up to the mother and her doctor. I'm sure it's a very difficult choice to make. -

Post birth abortions? Where, when? Based on two Australian researchers who were looking for feedback on the bioethics of the idea?

[Arcadien]

Support abortion anytime up to when the baby can survive out of the womb without any outside assistance.

And even then, if superhuman outside assistance is required for baby to survive, support abortion for the mom's that can't possibly afford the expense, and/or don't feel ready to care for a special needs child/adult the rest of their lives.

[RainyDayRide]

Those of us with a few miles on us can remember what it was like before abortions were legal. It was not the case that there were no abortions then .. it was the case that if you were wealthy you would be taken care of. If you weren't, it was the back alley. I still vividly remember the scene in my college dining hall when a young woman stood up from her table, screamed and fell into a pool of her own blood.

My 90 year old friend has far worse stories...she used to be a nurse and saw too many women brought in too late to save from botched abortions - or saved but unable to have children.

I'm glad that - for the moment - in most states women still have a better choice. And, as I posted in another thread, a woman I know had a late term abortion for much the same reason as the one posted above. It was heartbreaking for her, her husband, her sons and the rest of her friends and family - but she lived and went on to have a healthy daughter a few years later.

[Coyoteco]

WTF is a post birth abortion? After birth isn't it a little late???
The decision to have an abortion should be up to the mother and her doctor. I'm sure it's a very difficult choice to make. -

Post birth abortion is letting the baby die if it survives the abortion. The hypothetical situation that was discussed in the Illinois state senate related to a healthy, viable fetus being born and what safeguards should be in place. The decision was based on the hypothetical of a healthy, living infant.

For the record, I have never once on this board or on face book recited my opinion on abortion. Now, the original post does seem biased, I'm afraid. However, I started out to ask the simple question, but then the question isn't simple, and if you were drafting a law, at a minimum you'd need to know how long and what supportive care would be require so the question added those parts.

I tacked on the 18 year old girl's story because the discrepancy troubled me.

[Punkie]

A very good friend of mine just had a late term abortion...at 37 weeks. Her daughter was diagnosed with severe Dandy Walker Syndrome. Had her daughter been born, she may have had days or weeks to live and those days or weeks would have been absolute torture for her. She would've been in severe pain 24/7, on a feeding tube and a ventilator, and essentially a vegetable. It was an agonizing decision for my friend and an even more unimaginably difficult to give birth to a dead child, but she is steadfast that it was the absolute right thing to do. And this is why I am for this service and all other abortion services remaining available in this country. Because it gives us the ability to make the best choice for our lives, our bodies, and our families.

[dani0303]

I am all for late term abortion the way it stands now. IF the child is a danger to itself or the mother, it needs to go. It is horrible and agonizing, but why put the mother's life in danger for a child who will either be stillborn or born with a horrible disability (I'm not talking Down Syndrome here...).

[SnicklefritzG]

"Support abortion anytime up to when the baby can survive out of the womb without any outside assistance. "

This is my stance as well. I personally don't care what people do before that point or why they do it.


I will say that the notion of post-birth abortion is completely ridiculous.

[Coyoteco]

I believe that the choice of abortion should be between a patient and her doctor.

Since this is a horse forum, I have to ponder how interesting this choice is from the point of view of valuing the individual animals compared to humans. I was watching Dr. Pol deliver a calf, and he was talking about how important it was to save the cow because she was worth a lot, but the calf not much. This is true with mares in foal as well, when sometimes the foal must be cut out of the mare to save the mare. I can't imagine too many people, if given the choice of saving their pet dog or the puppies she was trying to bear, would choose the puppies. Yet with people, there is this whole segment of society that values the life of the infant over the mother, that says, if we have to choose, we choose the life of the infant.

Many mothers might agree with saving the infants rather than their own lives. So be it, it should be her choice.

I should have excluded "life of the mother" from the question.

I have never quite understood how removing a viable 8 to 9 month old fetus after it is dead changes the risk to the mother's life from removing the same fetus at the same time, intact and alive. Any doctor's or knowledgeable people want to explain that?

[suz]

no part of gov't needs to be involved in medical decisions.
and anyone who even entertains the notion that a late term abortion is performed without being absolutely necessary is an idiot.

[Lin]

Why do you insist a late term abortion is a whim? Mostly it is safer to let nature take its course at eight months so if abortion is offered tbere is likely a serious reason

[JER]

All women -- especially minority and poor women -- LOVE to have abortions. Late ones, according to just about everyone, are even more fun than first trimester abortions.

And if abortions weren't enjoyable enough as it is, the only thing that can make a late-term abortion more pleasurable is when the government pays.

Seriously, it's 2012. Why are we even debating this stuff? An unwanted pregnancy is not a gift from God, it's an unwanted pregnancy. Abortion is not something that women do for fun, it's an option that should be accessible to all women.

[GraceLikeRain]

Electing to have an abortion at 2 months and 8 months is the same to me. I don't think it is worse to murder a 10 year old than it is to murder a 4 year old.

That being said, I am pro-choice. I don't think it is my place to tell a woman that she has to carry a child to term. I cannot relate to a woman with a ectopic pregnancy, a woman struggling with a drug addiction, a woman with 8 children and no job, a woman in an abusive relationship, a woman who never wanted children, a woman who was raped, a woman who took every precaution but still ended up pregnant, etc. Just because it's not a choice I would make does not mean that I believe it is a choice that I have the right to take away from another person.

I don't really understand the shades of gray with abortion. Either from a moment of conception a fetus is a undeveloped child or it becomes a child approximately 9 months when it leaves the uterus.

My question is why does a fetus transform into a life if it could hypothetically survive outside of the womb but not a week before? Why is it ethical to abort a fetus before that time but unethical to abort late term?

[grayarabpony]

I should have excluded "life of the mother" from the question.

I have never quite understood how removing a viable 8 to 9 month old fetus after it is dead changes the risk to the mother's life from removing the same fetus at the same time, intact and alive. Any doctor's or knowledgeable people want to explain that?

Less trauma to the mother.