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  1. #141
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    I'm with ya fivehorses. I'm with ya!!

    Quote Originally Posted by fivehorses View Post
    aaahhhh, thank you 7hl.
    Now will you answer the question that was posed at the end of my post. The last part is key...not slaughter, but 'how' it is done. I am going to assume since you and Bluey and alagirl support slaughter, that you also know that the method is designed for cattle, etc, not horses. Also, unlike in europe, there is not such a mass production line which keeps on moving along regardless of the animals condition after the stun.
    I understand why people support slaughter, but what I don't understand is why people support equine slaughter or any slaughter for that matter that is not done with respect and humane treatment of the animal.

    "So, no arguing/positioning, just your soul talking why you find it ok the way it is currently being done?"

    Thank you.



  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    Yesterday driving though New Holland, I was following a truck hauling chickens to Tysons. No one screams about how the chickens are kill or how they are transported. They are going to be processed as chicken nuggets. The same with horses going to slaughter. They are going to be processed for consumption.
    Maybe you should open a "Chicken BB" and invite all those who ARE screaming about chicken abuse.

    THIS however, is a Horse BB.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  3. #143
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    I can't either and totally agree

    Quote Originally Posted by mayhew View Post
    See, I just can't look at my horse and consider him a renewable natural resource. I'm not anti-slaughter, though. I don't personally want to eat horse, nor do I want mine to be eaten, but I don't have a problem with other people doing it. What I do have a problem with is a terrifying death preceded by days on a trailer. If we could bring back local abattoirs, or even make on-farm slaughter an option, it would be much easier to stomach, so to speak.



  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I think it's a myth we really had control in the first place. What about the place in California last week? Isn't that all under USDA inspection??
    Apparently that wasn't working so well.
    I don't care what species it is. All of this needs to be done humanely.

    The USDA is a government arm.

    There are ways to influence it, like lighting the proverbial fire under your representative's behind to check on things.

    Being that the plants now are in a foreign country - good luck with that.

    You can still write to the respective guy in Canada or say Mexico...but I am sure they will give it a lot less thought than if you were actually somebody who could vote for them....
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  5. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    Apples and oranges....

    We don't have horse fights!

    Yesterday driving though New Holland, I was following a truck hauling chickens to Tysons. No one screams about how the chickens are kill or how they are transported. They are going to be processed as chicken nuggets. The same with horses going to slaughter. They are going to be processed for consumption.
    Seriously, you just pulled out apples and oranges with someone comparing to cock fighting and then you posted comparing to chickens again?!

    Furthermore, "no one screams about how the chickens are kill or how they are transported" here on COTH forums because this is a horse forum, not a chicken forum or a general animal welfare forum.

    Try to argue your points without so obviously contradicting yourself in the same post.
    Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
    Home of Fitz, Max, Daeo & Austria
    Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Finn, Jake & Seamus



  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    There are ways to influence it, like lighting the proverbial fire under your representative's behind to check on things.
    Really??????????

    Have YOU ever tried that?

    Maybe you should and see how far that gets you.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    The USDA is a government arm.

    There are ways to influence it, like lighting the proverbial fire under your representative's behind to check on things.

    Being that the plants now are in a foreign country - good luck with that.

    You can still write to the respective guy in Canada or say Mexico...but I am sure they will give it a lot less thought than if you were actually somebody who could vote for them....
    You missed the entire point of what she posted. That plant is on American soil and was supposedly under USDA supervision and all that horrible abuse STILL took place. You are arguing that the plants will be better on US soil and under USDA supervision. This recent event suggests that your point is quite likely a myth. If this plant was not exposed, those abuses would still be continuing despite all our current rules and regulations.
    Annabelle Mayr, Arcadia Farm
    Home of Fitz, Max, Daeo & Austria
    Now over the Rainbow Bridge: Finn, Jake & Seamus



  8. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    alagirl,

    how do your pro slaughter friends explain how banning horse slaughter will eliminate horse ownership?

    You have not been paying attention.

    but frankly, you will get what you deserve.

    Ok, one more time:

    A) the anti slaughter movement makes really good money for the AR people.
    Throw in some 'safe the Mustang' and we are talking serious cash here (why don't any of you 'ZOMG they are making money off of slaughter' people poke a bit of that? They make a whole lot more than a slaughter house will ever bring in...)

    b) the people behind the anti slaughter push don't want you to have animals.
    They have said that much, time and time again. If you paid attention, you'd know that. If you believe what the spin doctors put out, you deserve what you get.

    c) slaughter is only one cog in the machinery that is the industry.
    It reduces the bottom value of a horse.
    A horse with no value is a truly sad thing: People treasure their possessions by the value attached to them. Something that costs more than the first feed or boarding bill is not valued much...You can imagine the care a horse gets that costs less than a canary!
    And because it didn't happen where you live, plant closure has affected the bottom value.



    ok, How doe slaughter ban affect horse ownership again?

    Oh, right.
    it is the first step to eliminate property right.
    Totally unamerican, but hey...
    Ok, the push is to declare horses not life stock but pets:
    You are now subject to licensing like dogs, increas in property taxes, rezoning issues, etc...horse supplies are anyhow more expensive than the same thing for cows. If you think horse keeping is expensive now....

    then of course you want to regulate the evil breeder...
    Aside of creating hassle for the good ones who will soon find better things to do with their money, you will reduce the lot to the ones that never cared.
    Again, you get your wish, don't complain when you can't afford a horse you have to be on a waiting list for...

    You think all that is far fetched?
    Wake up!
    The trend is already well established!

    And sorry...
    But I have really no use for people who align themselves with terrorists and criminals:
    http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/10/b...le-we-go-hand/

    at least 3-4 million worth of property damages, not even considering the blatant disregard for human life, as truckers often sleep in their rigs before a run...

    nor the sweet loving caring ladies who harassed truck drivers at their home with threatening messages because they happened to haul a load of horses when they had a wreck.

    Do have a good look at what you are standing next to!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  9. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADM7040 View Post
    You missed the entire point of what she posted. That plant is on American soil and was supposedly under USDA supervision and all that horrible abuse STILL took place. You are arguing that the plants will be better on US soil and under USDA supervision. This recent event suggests that your point is quite likely a myth. If this plant was not exposed, those abuses would still be continuing despite all our current rules and regulations.
    And with several states introducing AG Gag legislations, shows you how much those in the industry really care about animal welfare.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    For those so worried about the idea that if we ban horse slaughter "they are going to take away our animals." Cockfighting is banned, yet people still own/show and eat poultry. Dogfighting is banned, yet people still buy, own, breed dogs. Banning horse slaughter doesn't mean that horse ownership will be banned.

    Slaughter is not the same as cockfighting.

    Slaughter is not the same as dogfighting.




    Quote Originally Posted by ADM7040 View Post
    Seriously, you just pulled out apples and oranges with someone comparing to cock fighting and then you posted comparing to chickens again?!

    Furthermore, "no one screams about how the chickens are kill or how they are transported" here on COTH forums because this is a horse forum, not a chicken forum or a general animal welfare forum.

    Try to argue your points without so obviously contradicting yourself in the same post.

    Slaughter is killing then processing. We slaughter pigs and cattle. We just say we kill or process chickens.

    If no one screams on COTH about chickens because it is a horse forum, then why do people bring up all kinds on animals on here. Lame arguement.

    Slaughter is killing. Get over it. You are not going to make it nice and pretty. Horses are livestock and meant to be used by humans. Even for consumption.
    "Have a Coke and a Smile"



  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I think it's a myth we really had control in the first place. What about the place in California last week? Isn't that all under USDA inspection??
    Apparently that wasn't working so well.
    I don't care what species it is. All of this needs to be done humanely.
    And around and around we go, same arguments, same response.

    Guess what, that is exactly what regulations and inspections and standards are for, so whatever we do, in all we do, not just with animals, is done properly.

    The BIG difference in the debate he is that you either align with animal rights extremists that show any abuses and yell from the rooftops BAN!-BAN!-BAN!, that think humans can't do right, ban this and that and all and any use of animals.

    Right now they are attacking animal agriculture, horse slaughter, rodeo, most anything they have a video or story of abuse to use for their propaganda, but in reality, their goal is to stop all use of animals.

    That is the big picture some here fail to notice.

    Those that think animal rights are "only" after horse slaughter have a big surprise coming to them.
    Those groups have millions and hordes of attorneys and PR people that don't have anything else to do but to promote their ideas and guess what, they seem to be doing well, as we can see even some that should really know better, because they do have animals and so we can assume they don't see anything wrong with that, those people are also falling for the propaganda.
    Don't believe me, do you still think animal rights extremists "only" want to stop horse slaughter?
    Well, maybe you are missing the whole picture, like this here.
    Completely taken out of context videos, showing some abuse, that everyone of course abhors and no one wants but abusers, to make it look like all is abuse, when for the millions of cattle going thru auctions and slaughter practically all are handled under good management, but they don't show you that, of course, that doesn't fit their propaganda:

    http://laist.com/2012/06/11/animal_r...ation_farm.php

    Yes, they are after all we do with animals, one at the time, here and there, with laws with tricky hidden parts to them, with media in their pocket.

    Remember, if you are for stopping abuse, do so, but you don't have to follow behind pied piper's call of animal rights, BAN!-BAN!-BAN! and so throwing the baby out with the bathwater to stop abuses, wherever they happen.



  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    really no use for people who align themselves with terrorists and criminals:
    http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/10/b...le-we-go-hand/
    Why are you having us look at a Barbie Doll??

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Why are you having us look at a Barbie Doll??
    She is smarter than your average anti...besides she is equipped to take hidden camera pictures...

    http://www.animalliberationfrontline...-meat-company/
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  14. #154
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    Yes, HSUS and PETA are responsible for the bad drought. Make cattle farmers sell their stock = eliminate cattle ownership.
    Force hay production to be reduced = horse ownership less affordable = less horse owners.

    The ARA's are that powerful.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  15. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Yes, HSUS and PETA are responsible for the bad drought. Make cattle farmers sell their stock = eliminate cattle ownership.
    Force hay production to be reduced = horse ownership less affordable = less horse owners.

    The ARA's are that powerful.

    You must be bored when you post manure like this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  16. #156
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    I know someone who did this but believe it's been more than 10 years ago. It was a small abbatoir and tney were kind and careful.

    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
    Let's leave the "animal rights extremists" out of this thread, since I don't believe any of them are here. That's a side argument that has frankly been beaten to death.

    Of the regular horse people who ARE here, (and I understand the person above who mentioned profound disposal problems has a real case), please answer me the following:

    Who here has knowingly, in the last 10 years, sent a horse under their care, custody or control to slaughter? Or run it through the sale and stood there while it was bought by the killer buyers? It was frankly the norm when I was growing up in the 70's and I'm curious to see what ordinary horse owners are doing today.

    You have stated it's only 1% of the horse population this is happening to. Some people (always the same two) have repeatedly and vehemently defended your right to do this.

    DO YOU USE THIS OPTION?

    If not, no one's financial ox is really getting gored, and that ah, "renders" this whole thread into just a lot of rhetoric of the same relative degree of importance as someone pounding their fist on a bar at three in the morning . . .



  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Yes, HSUS and PETA are responsible ...


    The ARA's are that powerful.
    Good to see somebody pointing out they are all one and the same. Different names and costumes, but all the same.



  18. #158
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    You are linking to crazies.
    The same kinda of crazies who burn down abortion clinics.

    Show me a COTher who aligns themselves with those type of terroristic acts.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    You must be bored when you post manure like this.
    It's the kind of manure the pro-slaughter side would like their dedicated followers to believe.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    You are linking to crazies.
    The same kinda of crazies who burn down abortion clinics.

    Show me a COTher who aligns themselves with those type of terroristic acts.
    You do.

    You are spreading their message.

    Their propaganda.

    of course, not even ALF claimed them. I am sure the lawyers told them not to.

    There were enough crazier here on COTH, ready to tar and feather the truck driver who wrecked with a load of drafts. And I am not speaking about the 3 angels driver.

    there were enough crazies on COTH to get nasty with a breeder for selling a couple of old horses at an auction...
    the deranged and unhinged element is closer by your side than you care to admit.
    the company you keep and all that jazz...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



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