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  1. #1021
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    I hadn't heard they were even going to do that on a temporary basis.
    Every month there are a couple that end up down in the "kill" pen so I assumed that they were still be shipped - either to Canada or Mexico.


    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    It was a rhetorical question on my part.

    Fact is, that while the Canadian plants earlier this year announced they would no longer be taking TB's, it was only implemented on a temporary basis.



  2. #1022
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    er uh I mean luvmytbs............


    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I was actually trying to answer Echo's question - I mean jeez
    scuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuusssssssssssssssse mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
    Since you've got all the answers - go for it.



  3. #1023
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I hadn't heard they were even going to do that on a temporary basis.
    Every month there are a couple that end up down in the "kill" pen so I assumed that they were still be shipped - either to Canada or Mexico.
    Locally the word was: "Hold all TB's until we figure this out".

    Caused a few ticked off dealers/KB's.
    But the horses "disappeared" a couple weeks later.
    Guess "they figured it out".

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  4. #1024
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    See, that's one of my major problems with the industry--say one thing, do another thing.

    The EU flatly states: NO BUTE EVER IN THEIR LIFETIME ALLOWED. (Doesn't matter if it's true or not, whether you agree or disagree--that is supposed to be one of their major conditions.

    TBs from the U.S. (and I'll bet Canada) have been found to have a greater than 90%--more like 98% (California) incidence of running on bute.

    Yet they continue to go to slaughter. What other rules get bent regularly?



  5. #1025
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    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    See, that's one of my major problems with the industry--say one thing, do another thing.

    The EU flatly states: NO BUTE EVER IN THEIR LIFETIME ALLOWED. (Doesn't matter if it's true or not, whether you agree or disagree--that is supposed to be one of their major conditions.

    TBs from the U.S. (and I'll bet Canada) have been found to have a greater than 90%--more like 98% (California) incidence of running on bute.

    Yet they continue to go to slaughter. What other rules get bent regularly?
    'The Industry'?

    Most TBs do not go to slaughter.
    For various reasons.
    Also, I don't think that there is a 90%+ chance of a horse 'running on Bute'
    I have looked through a few race programs in my time and while there is the * or (B) as foot note, I think I saw maybe one horse total with that on there.
    Do they get bute? I suppose that is closer to 100%, since it seems every horse person dishes it out lie it was carrots and apples.

    But frankly, does it matter?
    The EU makes their rules. And heaven knows not all of them are really all that smart, but it's no different than the US.

    I'd guess they test their meat, one way or another (since that is pretty much also an EU rule, or at least it was) so when it comes up positive, there are fields that need fertilizing and stamps to be stuck on letters.

    The process I am concerned with is up to the moment the animal drops.
    What ever happens after, who really cares! If you eat horse, I suppose it's a concern, but when you don't?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  6. #1026
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Locally the word was: "Hold all TB's until we figure this out".

    Caused a few ticked off dealers/KB's.
    But the horses "disappeared" a couple weeks later.
    Guess "they figured it out".
    Fact is, that while the Canadian plants earlier this year announced they would no longer be taking TB's, it was only implemented on a temporary basis.

    This is what you posted.

    NOW it is..THE WORD WAS...Who said that word? Who was going to figure it out?

    The Slaughter industry did NOT state anywhere I can find, that they were not going to take TB's

    Your choice of word...they disappeared...IMPLIES an illegal behaviour...NOPE...they were sold..and shipped to slaughter if that was the case.

    There is a track in Maryland, hub of HSUS that said any trainer sending a TB to a sale where it could be purchased for slaughter would be suspended...there MAY be a couple more.

    THAT has nothing to do with the slaughter plants. They take the horses purchased for them and they prefer the heavier set rather than the lean and mean TB.

    The availability of horses from Asia (Russia and territories) is wanning due to their industrial revolution. What looks like it is carved in cement will disappear next year or the year after.

    However that is NO concern over here. Horses with "products" in them will be rendered for other purposes..same as any horse that is euthanized by a vet for an owner...

    The only concern regarding "what might be in the meat" is due to the losing position of the anti slaughter crowd...and their numbers diminish everytime anyone says...since you are against it..then are you prepared to adopt them or pay for them out of your own pocket.

    It is rarely the Industry that says one thing and does another...truly isn't relevant. It is the claim of what they have said by the anti crowd that turns out to be untrue



  7. #1027
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    Sorry I don't think that any anti-slaughter person feels they are "losing" the argument - they probably just get tired of trying to have a discussion with people who run around with their fingers in their ears going LA LA LA LA LA LA I can't hear you!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Fact is, that while the Canadian plants earlier this year announced they would no longer be taking TB's, it was only implemented on a temporary basis.

    This is what you posted.

    NOW it is..THE WORD WAS...Who said that word? Who was going to figure it out?

    The Slaughter industry did NOT state anywhere I can find, that they were not going to take TB's

    Your choice of word...they disappeared...IMPLIES an illegal behaviour...NOPE...they were sold..and shipped to slaughter if that was the case.

    There is a track in Maryland, hub of HSUS that said any trainer sending a TB to a sale where it could be purchased for slaughter would be suspended...there MAY be a couple more.

    THAT has nothing to do with the slaughter plants. They take the horses purchased for them and they prefer the heavier set rather than the lean and mean TB.

    The availability of horses from Asia (Russia and territories) is wanning due to their industrial revolution. What looks like it is carved in cement will disappear next year or the year after.

    However that is NO concern over here. Horses with "products" in them will be rendered for other purposes..same as any horse that is euthanized by a vet for an owner...

    The only concern regarding "what might be in the meat" is due to the losing position of the anti slaughter crowd...and their numbers diminish everytime anyone says...since you are against it..then are you prepared to adopt them or pay for them out of your own pocket.

    It is rarely the Industry that says one thing and does another...truly isn't relevant. It is the claim of what they have said by the anti crowd that turns out to be untrue



  8. #1028
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    In some areas of the country that isn't happening much.
    They can and do use other things.

    However that is NO concern over here. Horses with "products" in them will be rendered for other purposes..same as any horse that is euthanized by a vet for an owner...



  9. #1029
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Fact is, that while the Canadian plants earlier this year announced they would no longer be taking TB's, it was only implemented on a temporary basis.

    This is what you posted.

    NOW it is..THE WORD WAS...Who said that word? Who was going to figure it out?

    The Slaughter industry did NOT state anywhere I can find, that they were not going to take TB's

    Your choice of word...they disappeared...IMPLIES an illegal behaviour...NOPE...they were sold..and shipped to slaughter if that was the case.

    There is a track in Maryland, hub of HSUS that said any trainer sending a TB to a sale where it could be purchased for slaughter would be suspended...there MAY be a couple more.

    THAT has nothing to do with the slaughter plants. They take the horses purchased for them and they prefer the heavier set rather than the lean and mean TB.

    The availability of horses from Asia (Russia and territories) is wanning due to their industrial revolution. What looks like it is carved in cement will disappear next year or the year after.

    However that is NO concern over here. Horses with "products" in them will be rendered for other purposes..same as any horse that is euthanized by a vet for an owner...

    The only concern regarding "what might be in the meat" is due to the losing position of the anti slaughter crowd...and their numbers diminish everytime anyone says...since you are against it..then are you prepared to adopt them or pay for them out of your own pocket.

    It is rarely the Industry that says one thing and does another...truly isn't relevant. It is the claim of what they have said by the anti crowd that turns out to be untrue
    http://www.drf.com/news/canadian-sla...-thoroughbreds



  10. #1030
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    Thanks for the link!!



  11. #1031
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    The Slaughter industry did NOT state anywhere I can find, that they were not going to take TB's
    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    It is rarely the Industry that says one thing and does another...truly isn't relevant. It is the claim of what they have said by the anti crowd that turns out to be untrue.
    You have the anti crowd mixed up with the pro crowd.
    The pro crowd is the one not able to back up their claims.

    So here again - as already posted by jetsmom:

    http://www.drf.com/news/canadian-sla...-thoroughbreds

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  12. #1032
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    The process I am concerned with is up to the moment the animal drops.
    Oh really?
    Since when?

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  13. #1033
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    My question is this: A large percentage (90%++ racing in California had raced on butazoladin) of TBs have probably received bute during their racing careers. Since the EU considers the presence of bute verboten and these are in effect "high risk" animals for bute, why would they ever consider slaughtering them in the first place?

    Enough traces of bute have been found in exported horse meat from Canada to have been mentioned at least several times in European publications, so I would guess that this is a problem in the EU.

    Now, if instead of slaughtering TBs for human consumption, they are rendering the meat, then wouldn't the companies have to pay next to nothing per head for the horses, making them impractical to ship any distance at all?

    Hey, I would love to believe that there is a really good feed lot system put into place with great feed for six months, euthanasia if injured or not doing well. A lot of horses would probably feel the same way. BUT--I've been in Saskatchewan during a couple of winters years ago, and it sure wasn't a lovely climate to spend the winter in, and I doubt Alberta is any better. I remember temps down to -45 degrees, tales of people freezing to death in blizzards going from the house to the barn in a whiteout, and building a snowman on May 1.

    The thing is that I would really like to believe all the factory rhetoric, but if they are "business as usual" with a product that probably has a +90% chance of contamination with a forbidden substance, why should I believe anything else they are saying?

    And it doesn't matter what anybody personally thinks about bute and any side-effects--it is the consumer and the distributor's position that it is a forbidden substance (for the lifetime of the animal).



  14. #1034
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    thank you..I appreciate the information.



  15. #1035
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    The Fort MacLeod plant has enough "certified" horses available to meet the standards of the E.U..

    They also have a constant supply of marginal (unknown, however suspected) hroses that can be sold for zoo feed

    Then they have the rendering horses.

    When a buyer purchases at an auction..there are SO MANY HORSES..that the price is not higher for those with certification (I am sure someone will find examples but it is not a general point). Those horses are also going to be purchased for possible NON slaughter resale either in the U.S. or after they reach Canada.

    I am sure we have people freezing to death here in Alberta however most farmer/ranchers have a system (ropes, fencing) so they don't get lost during building changes during a blizzard. It did occur however around 100 years ago until the Hutterites came into Canada and showed the system they had used in Europe.

    The meat can be used for many NON human consumption purposes as can the hide, skulls (enormous artistic market for them after they have been bleached by the sun) hoofs ( I have one that was turned into an ink well for fountain pens) guts are used for animal surgery as they stitch well and also absorb after a period of time, hides are used in fashion and also for anyplace certain leathers are used.

    The feedlot system has only been established over the past 24 months although there HAVE BEEN some small independent feedlots established over the years which brought it into the mainstream.

    Horses imported with ONE certificate for the truckload MUST BE SLAUGHTERED within 96 HOURS..the others can be fattened..resold etc.

    Saskatchewan does not have any equine slaughter houses and hasn't had since the last one closed in Regina around 1970



  16. #1036
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    Usually here in the US when we have a horse that is hurt, we call the vet and depending on the situation, the vet will give you bute to give to your horse. It doesn't matter what kind of horse it is. I really don't think a lot of the RARA's even know the difference between a tb and anything else.
    I'm not understanding why they would especially exclude tb's for that - why not a working QH?
    But hey if it works for an OTTB.
    I don't know for sure whether all the info about this stuff in our food comes from anti-slaughter people or not but considering all the stuff that's already in our food?? I'm not anxious to have more crap be in it.
    Next on my Netflix list is going to be Food, Inc.

    Quote Originally Posted by betonbill View Post
    My question is this: A large percentage (90%++ racing in California had raced on butazoladin) of TBs have probably received bute during their racing careers. Since the EU considers the presence of bute verboten and these are in effect "high risk" animals for bute, why would they ever consider slaughtering them in the first place?

    Enough traces of bute have been found in exported horse meat from Canada to have been mentioned at least several times in European publications, so I would guess that this is a problem in the EU.

    Now, if instead of slaughtering TBs for human consumption, they are rendering the meat, then wouldn't the companies have to pay next to nothing per head for the horses, making them impractical to ship any distance at all?

    Hey, I would love to believe that there is a really good feed lot system put into place with great feed for six months, euthanasia if injured or not doing well. A lot of horses would probably feel the same way. BUT--I've been in Saskatchewan during a couple of winters years ago, and it sure wasn't a lovely climate to spend the winter in, and I doubt Alberta is any better. I remember temps down to -45 degrees, tales of people freezing to death in blizzards going from the house to the barn in a whiteout, and building a snowman on May 1.

    The thing is that I would really like to believe all the factory rhetoric, but if they are "business as usual" with a product that probably has a +90% chance of contamination with a forbidden substance, why should I believe anything else they are saying?

    And it doesn't matter what anybody personally thinks about bute and any side-effects--it is the consumer and the distributor's position that it is a forbidden substance (for the lifetime of the animal).



  17. #1037
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    Oh FFS I don't know anyone who hasn't given bute to their horses. I've never been on a trail ride without someone having it handy.

    It's SOP for hard working horses (jumping, endurance etc.) after a competition whether it's needed or not. Only my youngest horses have never received bute and they were NEVER competed.

    Therein lies the rub with bute and the passport. EVERYONE uses it, has it handy. Not to mention all the other drugs most horse owners have in their medicine chest.

    If people want to poison themselves with horse meat have at it. However N. American's not following EU specs well is so North American these days. Do we really want to be like China? Go buy your dog some Chinese made dog treats then.



  18. #1038
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    I had forgotten about that situation. It was announced as Ohio followed Maryland with a ban against any TB's going to an auction where slaughter buyers could acquire them.

    I can't remember the details but there was some nepotism there with the woman who originally sold the horses and her trainer and the buyer etc. I think the slaughter plant "issued" that proclamation as a favor.

    That said..I don't know if they have "officially changed" that philosophy. They haven't returned my call yet.

    There is another plant in Ontario not owned by that company so maybe they are shipped there.

    Gosh..Mary...I am so very sorry all of your horses have been so unsound.

    In all of the years I have owned, bred, shown, raced TB's, Arabs and ASB's (didn't race them)..I have only had a half dozen who have required Bute..and the one was just a month ago for a colt with a shoulder injury.

    We don't use Bute except as a last resort, as we want the horse to stay OFF the injured leg.

    Gosh..you even have to carry it for a trail ride? Wow...sorry to hear that



  19. #1039
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    Gee Fairfax so glad you've never had a horse that required a NSAID, of course you have to actually have to use horses YOURSELF in order to know if they would need such things.

    Who said ANYTHING about an injured leg?

    ETA apparently you've never been on a trail ride outside an open field overnight for days. Talk about cherry picking....



  20. #1040
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    Exactly.


    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Oh FFS I don't know anyone who hasn't given bute to their horses. I've never been on a trail ride without someone having it handy.

    It's SOP for hard working horses (jumping, endurance etc.) after a competition whether it's needed or not. Only my youngest horses have never received bute and they were NEVER competed.

    Therein lies the rub with bute and the passport. EVERYONE uses it, has it handy. Not to mention all the other drugs most horse owners have in their medicine chest.

    If people want to poison themselves with horse meat have at it. However N. American's not following EU specs well is so North American these days. Do we really want to be like China? Go buy your dog some Chinese made dog treats then.



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