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  1. #941
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    Talking about propaganda...Bluey.

    Jeez 30 years ago we weren't giving unsupervised carcinogenic drugs to horses by the boat loads. 70 years ago we were still using them for transportation and work. They helped build our nations. Today they are a simply LUXURY.

    Things have changed since the last millennium. Perhaps you hadn't noticed with your very narrow scope.

    BTW you really need to look up the definition of "natural" resource. Horses are not "natural" by any stretch of word.
    Horses are not "natural" by any stretch of the word?

    Now, do you consider them a domesticated species?
    I have heard animal rights extremists deny that too, when the president of the HSUS said "one generation and no more domesticated species and none too soon for me".
    They insisted that didn't meant horses, because they are not a domesticated species.

    I think some need to expand their vocabulary a bit, read what the definitions of some words really are and I don't think that person is who you think it is.



  2. #942
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    You may confuse them with animal welfare which you are prone to doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Our sheriff's association puts out a magazine with sheriff's business.
    I will inform them that some think they are all full of propaganda.

    Seriously, that is a magazine about how to cross beef breeds, how to take care of cows at different times in their pregnancy, what vaccines and dewormer's to use and when, how to supplement pastures in a drought or destock, how to marker to specialty niches, etc.

    If that is not a dedicated business industry magazine, I don't know what one is.

    There are plenty of issues that divide producers, but they are producers of goods and services,
    As any other industry, the beef industry is not one single voice following someone's propaganda for an agenda, as animal rights groups are.

    Heck, there are even a few, like here, on a horse forum of all places, that line themselves with animal rights extremists.
    Google "Callicrate and the HSUS".
    Can you believe it, the inventor, manufacturer and marketer of a castrating device aligning himself with an animal rights group?
    I don't know what either of them were thinking.



  3. #943
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo View Post
    If U.S. horses continue to be slaughtered, medical histories will be required. Each horse will need an identifier - all 9 million. There will be costs involved for EVERY horse owner - for the identifier and for the tracking of medical history. There is big money in the 'beaucracy' of establishing a system. Slaughter has nothing to do with what is good for the horses.
    To indicate or suggest that we 'need' slaughter is saying we 'need' to kill horses. Some think we need to kill horses so breeders can breed more and registries can register more. Some people don't even care if the horses they ship are not safe for people to eat - they just want the dollars they can get.
    How many horses need to be killed? Enough to raise the value of existing low quality grades to what dollar amount? It's all about the money.
    It will never be enough.....

    There was a story that all blondes would be eliminated as all of them (the women) were marrying men from the middle east. In two generations there would be no more "blonde" color naturally.

    Your story is equally amusing

    However..it too, is nonsense
    Last edited by Fairfax; Sep. 13, 2012 at 12:28 AM.



  4. #944
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    There is a lot of money to be gleaned from 9 million U.S. horse owners under the guise of ‘disease control’. The horse slaughter cartel would like to implement an entire bureaucracy on every horse owner so they can recover the ‘salvage value’ on less than 1% of horses that find their way into the slaughter system under the guise of ‘disease control’. That would equate to 9 million U.S. horses times say roughly $50 each or $450 MILLION dollars gleaned from horse owners under the guise of disease control when the regulatory authorities haven’t even enforced the Uniform Methods and Rules for EIA - a communicable disease!
    With NAIS or National Animal Identification System, every horse owner would eventually be required to attach a number to their horse for tracking purposes. Horse owners aren’t going to slap an ear tag on their horses. Most would be micro chipped and most horse owners aren’t going to do it themselves. So now there is a vet call of roughly $40, and then the cost of the chip and the cost to insert the chip. Next a database will be required to record the numbers. There is no reason for a number if it isn’t attached to some record of ‘data’. What data are they going to collect? Premises are the primary reason for number tracking system under the guise of disease control. So they would need a number indicating the premises except that most horses change owners several times in their lifetime. Now they need staffing to maintain the database and the changes of ownership or premises of origin.
    Want to bet that under the ‘discretion’ of the Secretary of Agriculture, the horse slaughter dealers will be allowed to identify a horse to a “premise of origin” indicating the dealers gathering points or stockyards where they are assembling horses to ship? That is not traceability to the ‘premises of origin’! In Europe they have a horse passport. However those passports get ‘lost’ and are recreated without the drug history of that horse. In the U.S., none of the rules, laws, or regulations have been seriously or effectively enforced and now they want more money – for what? A horse slaughter system that has never promised to buy even one horse and could stop tomorrow, doesn’t care about environmental concerns and has no respect for the welfare of the horses, and that the majority of U.S. horse owners will never use!
    It is unconscionable that the same regulatory authorities that take a discretionary stance or hands off approach to regulating slaughter horses are now attempting to inveigle U.S. horse owners into a food animal system that will cost them a lot of money that the majority will never use.
    Who pays and who gets?



  5. #945
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo View Post
    There is a lot of money to be gleaned from 9 million U.S. horse owners under the guise of ‘disease control’. The horse slaughter cartel would like to implement an entire bureaucracy on every horse owner so they can recover the ‘salvage value’ on less than 1% of horses that find their way into the slaughter system under the guise of ‘disease control’. That would equate to 9 million U.S. horses times say roughly $50 each or $450 MILLION dollars gleaned from horse owners under the guise of disease control when the regulatory authorities haven’t even enforced the Uniform Methods and Rules for EIA - a communicable disease!
    With NAIS or National Animal Identification System, every horse owner would eventually be required to attach a number to their horse for tracking purposes. Horse owners aren’t going to slap an ear tag on their horses. Most would be micro chipped and most horse owners aren’t going to do it themselves. So now there is a vet call of roughly $40, and then the cost of the chip and the cost to insert the chip. Next a database will be required to record the numbers. There is no reason for a number if it isn’t attached to some record of ‘data’. What data are they going to collect? Premises are the primary reason for number tracking system under the guise of disease control. So they would need a number indicating the premises except that most horses change owners several times in their lifetime. Now they need staffing to maintain the database and the changes of ownership or premises of origin.
    Want to bet that under the ‘discretion’ of the Secretary of Agriculture, the horse slaughter dealers will be allowed to identify a horse to a “premise of origin” indicating the dealers gathering points or stockyards where they are assembling horses to ship? That is not traceability to the ‘premises of origin’! In Europe they have a horse passport. However those passports get ‘lost’ and are recreated without the drug history of that horse. In the U.S., none of the rules, laws, or regulations have been seriously or effectively enforced and now they want more money – for what? A horse slaughter system that has never promised to buy even one horse and could stop tomorrow, doesn’t care about environmental concerns and has no respect for the welfare of the horses, and that the majority of U.S. horse owners will never use!
    It is unconscionable that the same regulatory authorities that take a discretionary stance or hands off approach to regulating slaughter horses are now attempting to inveigle U.S. horse owners into a food animal system that will cost them a lot of money that the majority will never use.
    Who pays and who gets?
    I am a pro-slaughter person but I will oppose any kind of mandatory identification system. As I said earlier in this thread if the anti-slaughter people also oppose this then thier wish will be granted. No horses going to slaughter.



  6. #946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo View Post
    There is a lot of money to be gleaned from 9 million U.S. horse owners under the guise of ‘disease control’. The horse slaughter cartel would like to implement an entire bureaucracy on every horse owner so they can recover the ‘salvage value’ on less than 1% of horses that find their way into the slaughter system under the guise of ‘disease control’. That would equate to 9 million U.S. horses times say roughly $50 each or $450 MILLION dollars gleaned from horse owners under the guise of disease control when the regulatory authorities haven’t even enforced the Uniform Methods and Rules for EIA - a communicable disease!
    With NAIS or National Animal Identification System, every horse owner would eventually be required to attach a number to their horse for tracking purposes. Horse owners aren’t going to slap an ear tag on their horses. Most would be micro chipped and most horse owners aren’t going to do it themselves. So now there is a vet call of roughly $40, and then the cost of the chip and the cost to insert the chip. Next a database will be required to record the numbers. There is no reason for a number if it isn’t attached to some record of ‘data’. What data are they going to collect? Premises are the primary reason for number tracking system under the guise of disease control. So they would need a number indicating the premises except that most horses change owners several times in their lifetime. Now they need staffing to maintain the database and the changes of ownership or premises of origin.
    Want to bet that under the ‘discretion’ of the Secretary of Agriculture, the horse slaughter dealers will be allowed to identify a horse to a “premise of origin” indicating the dealers gathering points or stockyards where they are assembling horses to ship? That is not traceability to the ‘premises of origin’! In Europe they have a horse passport. However those passports get ‘lost’ and are recreated without the drug history of that horse. In the U.S., none of the rules, laws, or regulations have been seriously or effectively enforced and now they want more money – for what? A horse slaughter system that has never promised to buy even one horse and could stop tomorrow, doesn’t care about environmental concerns and has no respect for the welfare of the horses, and that the majority of U.S. horse owners will never use!
    It is unconscionable that the same regulatory authorities that take a discretionary stance or hands off approach to regulating slaughter horses are now attempting to inveigle U.S. horse owners into a food animal system that will cost them a lot of money that the majority will never use.
    Who pays and who gets?
    Can you provide links to actual government stories in Europe stating the passport system allows them to be "lost"?

    Or..is this just another urban story?

    Cattle are only tracked with ear tags due to Mad Cow and a couple of other OVER RATED diseases by the Asian and European markets. They don't have micro chips or the sort.

    Your stories, while amusing, are just one more step the RARA's use when Abuse doesn't work...keep the fear going...



  7. #947
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    Seriously Fairfax?? You think Mad Cow is over rated??


    Cattle are only tracked with ear tags due to Mad Cow and a couple of other OVER RATED diseases by the Asian and European markets. They don't have micro chips or the sort.



  8. #948
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    Quote Originally Posted by wonderhorseguy View Post
    I am a pro-slaughter person but I will oppose any kind of mandatory identification system. As I said earlier in this thread if the anti-slaughter people also oppose this then thier wish will be granted. No horses going to slaughter.
    And if the anti slaughter bill passed, no need to implement a passport.

    It works both ways.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  9. #949
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    And if the anti slaughter bill passed, no need to implement a passport.

    It works both ways.
    Except that you conveniently forget that the passport is not implemented because of slaughter, but because, according to the USDA, they want to be able to trace all animals in any one area if there ever was an outbreak of some strange purple dot disease and so quarantine and/or kill any there.
    It involved registering all premises that harbor animals and all animals.
    Remember NAIS?

    Sorry that one scare mongering about slaughter and a passport goes over about like the abuse card, animal rights proponents propaganda, for the gullible to follow them, without thinking if it makes sense.



  10. #950
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    Seriously Fairfax?? You think Mad Cow is over rated??


    Cattle are only tracked with ear tags due to Mad Cow and a couple of other OVER RATED diseases by the Asian and European markets. They don't have micro chips or the sort.
    Guess you don't read much about it nor study it in Cattle. The root cause of it, bone meal, has been gone for a long time from feeding programs.

    R Calf of Montana decided they could turn this into a great opportunity to get into "other" export markets.

    The head of R Calf ALWAYS gets the Canadian beef banned HOWEVER he forgets to tell folks...he has pasture with only barb wire separating his cattle from the "Canadian cows he always claims are infected"

    There have been so many herd destructions and tests run...and only on a rare occasion are more than one affected.

    World Health has clearly stated it is over rated AND is motivated by consumerism.
    About CJD

    This tissue slide shows sponge-like lesions in the brain tissue of a classic CJD patient. This lesion is typical of many prion diseases. Larger Picture
    (Image courtesy Ermias Belay)

    Classic CJD is a human prion disease. It is a neurodegenerative disorder with characteristic clinical and diagnostic features. This disease is rapidly progressive and always fatal. Infection with this disease leads to death usually within 1 year of onset of illness.

    Important Note: Classic CJD is not related to "mad cow" disease.


    This is from Denters for Disease Control and Prevention Department of Health and Human Services

    in Great Britain there was a major outbreak however those same results have NEVER been found in North America

    2003...1 case Canada 1 case U.S.
    2004...1 case Canada 1 case U.S.
    2005...1 case Canada 0 case U.S.
    2006 it peaked at 6 cases with only 1 in the U.S.
    2008 4 cases in Canada non in the U.S.
    2009-2011 1 case each year Canada

    It should be noted that 2006 forward ALL the cases had been to Great Britain

    Death rate extrapolations for USA for Salmonella food poisoning: 1,000 per year, 83 per month, 19 per week, 2 per day, 0 per hour, 0 per minute, 0 per second. Note: this automatic extrapolation calculation uses the deaths statistic: estimated 1,000 deaths each year (DBMD); 38 reported deaths (NVSR Sep 2001)


    FACTS DO NOT SUPPORT a crisis regarding Mad Cow Disease



  11. #951
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    Yes that I knew - I haven't heard of Mad Cow anything for quite some time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    Guess you don't read much about it nor study it in Cattle. The root cause of it, bone meal, has been gone for a long time from feeding programs.


    I think I just find it "interesting" that you take the drug issues/mad cow disease so lightly.

    I'm sure the people affected by it all - tho they may be few, wouldn't take this so lightly.

    Salmonella and E-coli aren't real funny either. Nor is the idea
    that because human antibiotics are used on chickens, we now have the "super bug".
    Interesting



    R Calf of Montana decided they could turn this into a great opportunity to get into "other" export markets.

    The head of R Calf ALWAYS gets the Canadian beef banned HOWEVER he forgets to tell folks...he has pasture with only barb wire separating his cattle from the "Canadian cows he always claims are infected"

    There have been so many herd destructions and tests run...and only on a rare occasion are more than one affected.

    World Health has clearly stated it is over rated AND is motivated by consumerism.
    About CJD

    This tissue slide shows sponge-like lesions in the brain tissue of a classic CJD patient. This lesion is typical of many prion diseases. Larger Picture
    (Image courtesy Ermias Belay)

    Classic CJD is a human prion disease. It is a neurodegenerative disorder with characteristic clinical and diagnostic features. This disease is rapidly progressive and always fatal. Infection with this disease leads to death usually within 1 year of onset of illness.

    Important Note: Classic CJD is not related to "mad cow" disease.


    This is from Denters for Disease Control and Prevention Department of Health and Human Services

    in Great Britain there was a major outbreak however those same results have NEVER been found in North America

    2003...1 case Canada 1 case U.S.
    2004...1 case Canada 1 case U.S.
    2005...1 case Canada 0 case U.S.
    2006 it peaked at 6 cases with only 1 in the U.S.
    2008 4 cases in Canada non in the U.S.
    2009-2011 1 case each year Canada

    It should be noted that 2006 forward ALL the cases had been to Great Britain

    Death rate extrapolations for USA for Salmonella food poisoning: 1,000 per year, 83 per month, 19 per week, 2 per day, 0 per hour, 0 per minute, 0 per second. Note: this automatic extrapolation calculation uses the deaths statistic: estimated 1,000 deaths each year (DBMD); 38 reported deaths (NVSR Sep 2001)


    FACTS DO NOT SUPPORT a crisis regarding Mad Cow Disease
    That really doesn't negate the fact that the Asian market reacted to that - they and the europeans/canadians are reacting to the issues of drugs in our horse meat.



  12. #952
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    And that issue will also be solved by research.



  13. #953
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    Whose


    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    And that issue will also be solved by research.



  14. #954
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    The europeans seem to have more research than we do particularly about bute. In a lot of european countries they have banned it permanently from a food source. Not just for 6 months.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    And that issue will also be solved by research.



  15. #955
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    And if the anti slaughter bill passed, no need to implement a passport.

    It works both ways.
    Except the option to use slaughter for the people who want to voluntarily use an ID system would still be there.

    I am pro-choice. I do not like people legislating away my choices because they do not like something.



  16. #956
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    I don't want to be forced to document every drug ever given to my horses either because someone somewhere somehow wants to use slaughter processing as an option.
    It also does no good to have the regulation if it's not followed.

    Quote Originally Posted by wonderhorseguy View Post
    Except the option to use slaughter for the people who want to voluntarily use an ID system would still be there.

    I am pro-choice. I do not like people legislating away my choices because they do not like something.



  17. #957
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Horses are not "natural" by any stretch of the word?

    Now, do you consider them a domesticated species?
    I have heard animal rights extremists deny that too, when the president of the HSUS said "one generation and no more domesticated species and none too soon for me".
    They insisted that didn't meant horses, because they are not a domesticated species.

    I think some need to expand their vocabulary a bit, read what the definitions of some words really are and I don't think that person is who you think it is.
    I was quoting you directly. YOU called horses a natural resource, no one else. Not anywhere that I have read. I also don't buy into ANYONE"S propaganda. Well... because. "Everybody lies." Gregory House

    I beat to my own drum, always have always will. Just ask anyone...

    People can't handle the truth and spend their lives justifying every crappy thing they've ever done just so THEY can sleep at night. They lie to themselves, how can they possibly be truthful with others. Hell most people don't even know WHO they are, only what society has told them they SHOULD be.

    Everyday those creeps sore those BL horses yet claim they LOVE their horses. We wouldn't hurt our beloved horses. People are like that everywhere about everything, herd animals following along with none of their own thoughts. Gah! Yeah I beat to my own drum

    I have my very own experience with animals, and slaughter to make up my very own opinion.


    I have NOT read any and I mean any animal rights literature except for what was posted here directly.

    So if I say anything that you ASSUME came from any RARA literature you are dead wrong. It's all my own. I take full ownership.



  18. #958
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    Totally True!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    I was quoting you directly. YOU called horses a natural resource, no one else. Not anywhere that I have read. I also don't buy into ANYONE"S propaganda. Well... because. "Everybody lies." Gregory House

    I beat to my own drum, always have always will. Just ask anyone...

    People can't handle the truth and spend their lives justifying every crappy thing they've ever done just so THEY can sleep at night. They lie to themselves, how can they possibly be truthful with others. Hell most people don't even know WHO they are, only what society has told them they SHOULD be.

    Everyday those creeps sore those BL horses yet claim they LOVE their horses. We wouldn't hurt our beloved horses. People are like that everywhere about everything, herd animals following along with none of their own thoughts. Gah! Yeah I beat to my own drum

    I have my very own experience with animals, and slaughter to make up my very own opinion.


    I have NOT read any and I mean any animal rights literature except for what was posted here directly.

    So if I say anything that you ASSUME came from any RARA literature you are dead wrong. It's all my own. I take full ownership.



  19. #959
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    Quote Originally Posted by sunridge1 View Post
    I was quoting you directly. YOU called horses a natural resource, no one else. Not anywhere that I have read. I also don't buy into ANYONE"S propaganda. Well... because. "Everybody lies." Gregory House

    I beat to my own drum, always have always will. Just ask anyone...

    People can't handle the truth and spend their lives justifying every crappy thing they've ever done just so THEY can sleep at night. They lie to themselves, how can they possibly be truthful with others. Hell most people don't even know WHO they are, only what society has told them they SHOULD be.

    Everyday those creeps sore those BL horses yet claim they LOVE their horses. We wouldn't hurt our beloved horses. People are like that everywhere about everything, herd animals following along with none of their own thoughts. Gah! Yeah I beat to my own drum

    I have my very own experience with animals, and slaughter to make up my very own opinion.


    I have NOT read any and I mean any animal rights literature except for what was posted here directly.

    So if I say anything that you ASSUME came from any RARA literature you are dead wrong. It's all my own. I take full ownership.


    You have stated many times on other threads or forums you have NEVER sent a horse to slaughter. So if you eat meat...chicken..pork...lamb...you are dining due to slaughter.



  20. #960
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    Not a horse.
    You are nitpicking


    QUOTE=Fairfax;6557727]You have stated many times on other threads or forums you have NEVER sent a horse to slaughter. So if you eat meat...chicken..pork...lamb...you are dining due to slaughter.[/QUOTE]



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