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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    wtf?

    on that note i am outta here because clearly this thread just hit an all time low.
    Yes, the houseguest also posted, as horse lover, against horse haters.
    From here it will go down hill with insults.

    I will just answer one question.
    Those that post propaganda from animal rights sites as their excuses for their positions and following those group's ideas are seen as animal rights followers, guess why, because that is what they are doing.



  2. #62
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    Oct. 25, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivehorses View Post
    I am curious what bluey and alagirl and 7hl think...just basics...no arguing propoganda, HSUS/peta, etc

    Just explain why you think horse slaughter is ok. I really am curious.

    with all the videos(remember the one that video'd days in a slaughter house that was posted on here?) and some of the other papers that are not propoganda based, I really am curious how anyone can think the way equine slaughter is done can be an acceptable way to dispose of horses humanely.

    So, no arguing/positioning, just your soul talking why you find it ok the way it is currently being done?
    Hello, am I being ignored?

    Instead the same old points are being argued, as they have been for years. why can't they be put aside and try and give some perspective on the process and if it is acceptable to you.

    If we want to try and come to some type of resolution, we at least need to know how we feel.
    save lives...spay/neuter/geld



  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by JumpingPaints View Post
    Because goodness knows, the USDA did such an exemplary job when the US plants were open, LOL. Did you miss all the pix of horses arriving with gouged eyes, limbs torn of, broken necks or dead?

    Or by that measure, they do such a great job today ensuring animal welfare ((sarcasm intended)) Did you see last week's video of Central Valley Meats??

    Folks need to take off the rose colored glasses and see the cruelty and suffering horse slaughter entails through the entirety of the slaughter pipeline.

    And no, I'm no PETA supporter, but I do believe in basic animal welfare. And not only is horse slaughter patently unnecessary, it involves abuse and suffering that is not preventable by any kind of realistic oversight. Plus I don't support lottery style horse breeding, which is enabled by availability of horse slaughter.
    You are certainly swallowing their swill.

    Horse breeding is ALWAYS a lottery.
    Otherwise the market would not be full with offspring from top sires and dams barely scraping by.

    All the good it has done to shut inspection down in the US was sending the horses on yet longer trips.
    Canad - even with the horrific evidence of the labor dispute gone bad is still better than Mexico...

    All you antis should pad yourself on the back and giver yourself a carrot stick.

    What people outside the industry do not understand: injured animals are bad product!
    They cost money.

    asshats are omnipresent, sadly enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  4. #64
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    Sep. 13, 2000
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    Greenville, MI,
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    Thumbs up Yes tonight!

    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    considering that the AQHA is the world's largest registry should have something to do with this.

    Is is full moon already?
    Right on time!!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  5. #65
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    Sep. 13, 2000
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    Default I think

    People could save a whole lot of time just posting See post from such and such dates. This is all the same thing that is discussed over the years. I know why did I open it!
    "you can only ride the drama llama so hard before it decides to spit in your face." ?Caffeinated.



  6. #66
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    Dec. 13, 2005
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    Strasburg, PA "Just west of Paradise"
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivehorses View Post
    I am curious what bluey and alagirl and 7hl think...just basics...no arguing propoganda, HSUS/peta, etc

    Just explain why you think horse slaughter is ok. I really am curious.

    Because it is ok.


    Slaughter is killing. I don't have a problem with that as a choice to dispose of unwanted horses.



  7. #67
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    Oct. 25, 2007
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    aaahhhh, thank you 7hl.
    Now will you answer the question that was posed at the end of my post. The last part is key...not slaughter, but 'how' it is done. I am going to assume since you and Bluey and alagirl support slaughter, that you also know that the method is designed for cattle, etc, not horses. Also, unlike in europe, there is not such a mass production line which keeps on moving along regardless of the animals condition after the stun.
    I understand why people support slaughter, but what I don't understand is why people support equine slaughter or any slaughter for that matter that is not done with respect and humane treatment of the animal.

    "So, no arguing/positioning, just your soul talking why you find it ok the way it is currently being done?"

    Thank you.
    save lives...spay/neuter/geld



  8. #68
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    Jun. 9, 2006
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    Grand Junction, CO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post

    As long as those of us that understand the world as it is and our use of animals as the renewable, natural resource they are, you will find those that have them and the associations formed by them to try to protect the right to own and use animals from those that want to eliminate those rights on some wrongheaded idea of how this world works.
    See, I just can't look at my horse and consider him a renewable natural resource. I'm not anti-slaughter, though. I don't personally want to eat horse, nor do I want mine to be eaten, but I don't have a problem with other people doing it. What I do have a problem with is a terrifying death preceded by days on a trailer. If we could bring back local abattoirs, or even make on-farm slaughter an option, it would be much easier to stomach, so to speak.



  9. #69
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    Nov. 15, 2007
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    487

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    I think the original post tied AQHA to slaughter, so I'd like to follow up.

    Here's a question: How does AQHA justify all the bovine-like, steak on hooves halter horses (don't even bring up HYPP) they registered, and STILL encourage folks to breed via rewarding them at their "World" show?

    Fat, repulsive, unathletic mounds of fat on tiny hooves that can barely trot a few feet in a halter class? They are bred for slaughter as sure as an Angus steer is!



  10. #70
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    Jul. 19, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    well, as someone who is for animal welfare, who is a vegetarian (most of my life) who goes out of her way to ensure that every $$ that i spend goes only to businesses that i think are doing a good job ecologically, economically, animal welfare wise, etc. .

    I am 100% FOR humane slaughter of horses. Even if it is for human food.

    The lack of available slaughter here in the US only HURTS horses.
    True.

    From a pure biomass perspective, destroying that much meat and organic material in a way that means the carcass can't be eaten by something or decompose naturally into the soil is irresponsible.



  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivehorses View Post
    "So, no arguing/positioning, just your soul talking why you find it ok the way it is currently being done?"
    "Have a Coke and a Smile"



  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by downen View Post
    Here's a question: How does AQHA justify all the bovine-like, steak on hooves halter horses (don't even bring up HYPP) they registered, and STILL encourage folks to breed via rewarding them at their "World" show?

    Fat, repulsive, unathletic mounds of fat on tiny hooves that can barely trot a few feet in a halter class? They are bred for slaughter as sure as an Angus steer is!
    Since you asked. I wish they would stop ALL halter classes for all breeds. End the horse beauty pageant for ALL horse breeds.

    A little more direct to AQHA. The Impressive crap could have been elliminated a long time ago. All male offspring gelded. Female offspring removed from registry. I would have no problem if they sent them all to slaughter.
    "Have a Coke and a Smile"



  13. #73
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    Sep. 18, 2004
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    Virginia
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    Roasted, toasted, baked or fried,
    you can always eat 'em if they don't ride !

    Quarter horses, the new beef.

    "Sewage Wallace makes me want to vomit.

    I took on Bob Goodlatte and Smithfield Foods and their European Horse slaughter outfit ANIMEX a few years ago, what scum they are.
    Rudeness is the weak person's imitation of strength



  14. #74
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    So what is your magical solution? If slaughter results in more slaughter then what are we supposed to do? Who is supposed to accept the financial burden of unwanted horses? Who is supposed to pay the endless vet bills of chronically lame horses? Who do we put at risk by asking them to give a dangerous horse a permanent home? Increase taxes further and create permanent holding pens and hope people adopt (because that's been an overwhelming success with BLM)? If your solution is euthanasia then who accepts the vet costs, burial fees, etc?

    If slaughter is not an acceptable option that what do you think would fix this solution we find ourselves in?

    Of course education is the answer in the longterm. Education and a whole lot of luck might change this situation (even though it has failed to change irresponsible breeders of dogs).

    However it does not stop the number of unwanted horses from building. Most universities won't even take horses at this point and rescues are overflowing. Are we supposed to rely on the compassion and sympathy of individuals in the horse community?

    I have the resources for a single horse and honestly, I will never go to an auction to pick up a broken down reject. Sorry. Call me heartless. If I want a retiree then it will be my own loved horse who has had a long and fruitful (or maybe not so long and fruitful) career. I will provide for the animals that I take on but I know that I am not alone in feeling that the irresponsibility of others should not fall on the individuals in this country.

    I am not arguing that the past practices of horse slaughter were humane or acceptable but if you think that horse slaughter is inherently morally wrong (but somehow slaughtering meat animals is ok) then I would love to hear your reasoning about how we fix this problem.
    Umm...maybe the OWNERS?????
    If we didn't have slaughter and it started COSTING money to dispose of culls, the large breeders would think twice about breeding. Right now, they are rewarded for their excess.



  15. #75
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    You are certainly swallowing their swill.

    Horse breeding is ALWAYS a lottery.
    Otherwise the market would not be full with offspring from top sires and dams barely scraping by.

    All the good it has done to shut inspection down in the US was sending the horses on yet longer trips.
    Canad - even with the horrific evidence of the labor dispute gone bad is still better than Mexico...

    All you antis should pad yourself on the back and giver yourself a carrot stick.

    What people outside the industry do not understand: injured animals are bad product!
    They cost money.

    asshats are omnipresent, sadly enough.
    They slaughter horses in Mex using the same EU regs we did.

    And no one cares if eyes are gouged out/faces lacerated. They don't use that for their meat export.

    THe KB are abandoning horses to starve more than the general public. You only have to google "Presidio C4 holding pens" or Santa Teresa stray horses to see that.

    And largest neglect case in TX history was owned by a vet outside dallas Crowne when it was open.



  16. #76
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by mayhew View Post
    See, I just can't look at my horse and consider him a renewable natural resource. I'm not anti-slaughter, though. I don't personally want to eat horse, nor do I want mine to be eaten, but I don't have a problem with other people doing it. What I do have a problem with is a terrifying death preceded by days on a trailer. If we could bring back local abattoirs, or even make on-farm slaughter an option, it would be much easier to stomach, so to speak.
    It's perfectly legal to shoot and eat your own horse in almost all 50 states...
    There's your cheap way to dispose of an unwanted horse without having commercial horse slaughter. And I am ok with that.



  17. #77
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    Dec. 31, 2000
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    El Paso, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    True.

    From a pure biomass perspective, destroying that much meat and organic material in a way that means the carcass can't be eaten by something or decompose naturally into the soil is irresponsible.
    Horses can be composted. And horse slaughter plants are not exactly environmentally friendly.



  18. #78
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    Apr. 16, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    True.

    From a pure biomass perspective, destroying that much meat and organic material in a way that means the carcass can't be eaten by something or decompose naturally into the soil is irresponsible.
    And you're not concerned with putting toxins in foreign food chains...this seems the most irresponsible of all.



  19. #79
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    Jun. 15, 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by fivehorses View Post
    aaahhhh, thank you 7hl.
    Now will you answer the question that was posed at the end of my post. The last part is key...not slaughter, but 'how' it is done. I am going to assume since you and Bluey and alagirl support slaughter, that you also know that the method is designed for cattle, etc, not horses. Also, unlike in europe, there is not such a mass production line which keeps on moving along regardless of the animals condition after the stun.
    I understand why people support slaughter, but what I don't understand is why people support equine slaughter or any slaughter for that matter that is not done with respect and humane treatment of the animal.

    "So, no arguing/positioning, just your soul talking why you find it ok the way it is currently being done?"

    Thank you.
    I don't agree with the past methods done to slaughter horses. However, I do think that opening slaughter plans would open the door for discussing the most humane and ethical way to transport and kill. I do think that there is room for improvement on all fronts but conflating whether slaughter is ethical and whether the past methods were ethical clouds the discussion and slows dialogue.

    I do think that methods need to be updated and changed but I don't think that equine slaughter is inherently unethical.

    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    It's perfectly legal to shoot and eat your own horse in almost all 50 states...
    There's your cheap way to dispose of an unwanted horse without having commercial horse slaughter. And I am ok with that.
    What do you suggest we do to prevent people from shirking this responsibility and cost by dumping their animals? How do we prevent people from leaving horses in pastures? How do we adjust for people who wait until they truly have no money to care for all of their horses? What do we do with horses of the deceased that have no marketability? Why is it ethical for breeders to shoot a foal but not to send a horse to slaughter (I am NOT referring to the current practices which have issues but a potentially humane and horse-designed slaughter system)? How do we stop breeders from giving away horses that should be euthanized due to genetic defects, behavioral problems, etc. to avoid the cost associated with disposing of them?

    Of course owners need to step up. Breeders need to grow a moral compass and aim to only produce the best stock possible. People need greater accountability for their animals.

    Until this day comes, what are we going to do?



  20. #80
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    Aug. 5, 2009
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    What about the drugs??? I notice that there's always a large silence when this particular subject comes up. The EU has a list of medicines that it deems unacceptable for any meat processed for them. The last time I looked, a vast majority (say 90%+++) of the horses in my neighborhood (and these are mainly run of the mill pleasure horses) had had at least one bute in their lifetimes.

    As far as I know, bute is also not an acceptable medicine by FDA standards on animals slaughtered under their jurisdiction due to its being a potential carcinogen. I don't believe that the U.S. FDA allows for a period of time before the bute leaves an animal's system; I believe it is simply forbidden.

    Most actual meat producing animals seem to have heavily regulated, very controlled (feed/medicine/vet care) throughout their relatively short lives--so the possibility of a foul-up with a forbidden drug is a relatively small one.

    Let's contrast it with horses, who have virtually unregulated access to a cornucopia of medicines and health care products, plus have the potential to live far longer lives than regular slaughterable animals. This potentially longer life span raises the potential for having ingested not only a larger quantity of forbidden drugs but a larger variety of the same.

    Shall we just sweep this under the table? You all know that if there is a push to market horse meat in the U.S. that this will raise its ugly head at some point. Just how in the world are they going to realistically regulate something like this?



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