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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    No you just want them stuffed into over crowded rescues, abandoned along freeways, tied to wal- mart hitching rails or just left to starve because the owners can't feed them and rescues can't take them. That is so much more pleasant, i agree.
    They can shoot them and eat them if they are that hard up.



  2. #182
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    Exactly!!

    Quote Originally Posted by philosoraptor View Post
    This is absolutely true.

    And I feel it's not about wealth for all horse owners. It's a short-term type of selfish greed by some who think it somehow makes it easier,more convenient, more profitable. I'd argue that they're completely wrong. Folks like AQHA are biggest into promoting slaughter and breeding into big numbers. They claim it helps make breeding/owning more profitable. But if you compare the value of the average registered AQHA with, for example a Hannovarian or Friesian, it's completely bassackwards. By flooding the market with cheap in hopes 1% of them will do something useful, the price for the qh drops down to almost nothing. Registered aqha are often for sale in my area for $1000 or less. I've seen qh-looking yearlings dumped at the livestock sale for $20 each. It defies logic how this business model is profitable when the vast vast majority of QHs out there are worth so little.

    All AQHA would have to do is shift from quantity to quality and the QH's value would have nowhere to go but up. I know it hurts AQHA's bottom line because they depend on registration fees, but perhaps they could shift how they earn their revenue.

    It's also not helping breed value to be so closely associated with meat horses. To make money off a horse, you'd need to get more than pennies-per-pound. And if they want to get buyers interested, buyers want to think they're getting a quality mount, not a meat cow.



  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I think we all "get" what you are saying - but by your definition we need to just turn a blind eye to ALL the abuse that goes on - be it slaughter - be it the soring - whatever the abuse may be and let it go so that we defeat what HSUS and PETA want.

    "Someone" is also always trying to tell us what to do with our children. By your definition should we then abuse our children so we don't "lose our rights to do what we want with them?"

    God forbid we should lose any of our rights to be human.
    You are the ones bringing abuse to play, when we are saying abuse is a straw man in this.
    Abuse is the card animal rights extremists bring to the table, because that incenses anyone, as it should.

    The abuse card is a bad excuse to ban slaughter, that is what we are saying.
    Slaughter can and did and is managed properly in many places and times.
    That little fact doesn't show in the animal rights videos, of course, because that doesn't win any incensed followers.
    See the TG video link I added on a beef slaughter plant some pages ago.
    Then compare it with animal rights videos of slaughter plants.



  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    No.
    YOU do not get it.

    Anything we do with our animals somebody does see as abuse.

    You ride, you abuse, you stall them, you are an abuser
    You deworm them, vaccinate you are abusing.

    The people who are behind the push for the ban don't give a rats behind, really what does happen to the animals. They are - after all - better of dead than in the care of a human, any human, and yes, that does include you!

    This is not about somebody beating a child.
    It is not even about somebody beating a horse (if we exclude the dead one that is this ongoing slaughter 'debate')

    This is about a small group of people trying to dictate what the rest of the world can do.

    not every horse going to a low end sale is neglected and starved. Not every horse on CL is. Matter of fact around here we have very few horses on there, almost all are in very good condition and most seem to sell really quick.

    By your definition anybody considered guilty of abuse should be removed from ever having contact....
    Well, Scratch harry off the list, he spurred that poor gray horse bloody, he's an abuser...not to mention he rode that other one till it collapsed, right...

    Every little girl and boy needs to be kept from ever coming into contact with animals, I am sure they all have pulled a cat by the tail some time, or plopped down on that schooly's back a little too hard one time or another...

    Show barns need to be shut down because the horses don't get to frolic 24/7 in lush green pastures...


    I get it:
    Abuse happens.
    Because we deal with living things.
    You work to minimize it, because you can't eliminate it.

    What you don't get is that you are sawing on the branch you are sitting on.
    Nobody who owns any kind of animal is above reproach. In the eyes of those who want the ban, you all are abusers. For now you are the useful foot soldiers, good to rake in the money and spread the word.
    but you know the fate of foot soldiers, right? They are sacrifices. But sooner or later, you, too will be thrown under the bus.

    oh, and those people don't care. I don't think they even respect life.
    If the wellfare of the animals would be the driving power behind the ban they would have NOT pushed for the closure of the US packers without alternative.
    How many times can I say 'I told you so'? As many times as it takes.
    Does that fill me with joy?
    hell no. The horses are only the pawns in this game. You know, the little faceless guys on the chess board, the first one to be taken....


    And one more time for those who only read PETA material:

    Injured horses are a loss for the packer: bruised and torn tissue cannot be sold, adrenalin ruins the meat.

    Yes, there are people int he business who don't care.
    But there are about as many people who don't care in the business of selling lead contaminated toys to infants and poison treats to pampered pets.

    That's where the government regulates things.
    yes it's not perfect either. but do consider that the rest of your food is inspected by the same guys...
    This needs to be bounced forward as it is a realistic appraisal of the horse industry.

    There IS an opportunity to reopen slaughter in the U.S. and try get it as close to good as can be done...

    Sadly..it is all about National Velvet, Trigger and Buttermilk, and every other emotional impulse. All of this Companion stuff started when Disney started producing talking animation. People ACTUALLY BELIEVE that animals carry on conversations WITH INTELLIGENCE...same as the folks who reserve the "pink suite" for their little doggy as that is her favourite color. I don't bother to correct them by stating the dog is COLOR BLIND.



  5. #185
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    Dec. 21, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
    Nobody's answering the QUESTION I ASKED.

    Which in my world makes this entire thread a straw-man argument.

    Full moon risin'!
    I sold a 12 year old mare that I bred and raised to a man who MIGHT have ended her life at slaughter. She was a wonderful, sensitive mare that I could no longer keep at the time. Does it kill me to think that might have happened? YES. I will tell you one thing, I would prefer that ending over what a whole lot of horses here in the US are going through now.



  6. #186
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    Thank you!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ADM7040 View Post
    In general, extremism always seems to show some degree of craziness. Whether it is RARAs or the Slippery Slope Animal Rights Paranoids. What I find incredibly silly is that the two extreme sides both take have the same mentality that you are either with them or against them. If you do not agree 100% with the RARA's, then you are a mean animal abuser. If you do not agree 100% with the Slippery Slope Animal Rights Paranoids, then you are a simpleton who does not understand that ANY animal welfare is going to lead us to losing all our animals.

    How do both these extreme and very opposite groups not understand that in that huge chasm between their two groups, there are many of us (far more than in both extremes combined) in the middle that have our own opinions/interpretations and are not buying into the propaganda that EITHER group is trying to push.

    I also have to wonder why Ag Gag laws need to be implemented if there is minimal to no abuse going on/if the abuse is being stopped internally/if the abuse is being monitored by the USDA. If the industry is so clean, why are they afraid of people seeing what goes on?



  7. #187
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    If I said the sky was blue - you would, I'm sure tell me it isn't
    just for the sake of arguing.

    Slaughter may be managed well in other places - I've seen the videos where it was done correctly - you always miss that part
    of what I have to say - given recent issues with USDA inspections AGAIN - why do we want to add more to a system that isn't working for what we already have in play.

    And Bluey - You are ALWAYS the one that's first to the discussion to bring up PETA and HSUS and bring the paranoia to the discussion- if left alone - the rest of us might figure out a reasonable way to work it out without getting attacked because we do not believe quite as you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    You are the ones bringing abuse to play, when we are saying abuse is a straw man in this.
    Abuse is the card animal rights extremists bring to the table, because that incenses anyone, as it should.

    The abuse card is a bad excuse to ban slaughter, that is what we are saying.
    Slaughter can and did and is managed properly in many places and times.
    That little fact doesn't show in the animal rights videos, of course, because that doesn't win any incensed followers.
    See the TG video link I added on a beef slaughter plant some pages ago.
    Then compare it with animal rights videos of slaughter plants.



  8. #188
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    And yes Bluey vidoes of how it should be done have been posted here in past discussions - you conveniently forget that as well in your rush to paranoia.
    All of us that saw those DID get the difference.



  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    If I said the sky was blue - you would, I'm sure tell me it isn't
    just for the sake of arguing.

    Slaughter may be managed well in other places - I've seen the videos where it was done correctly - you always miss that part
    of what I have to say - given recent issues with USDA inspections AGAIN - why do we want to add more to a system that isn't working for what we already have in play.

    And Bluey - You are ALWAYS the one that's first to the discussion to bring up PETA and HSUS and bring the paranoia to the discussion- if left alone - the rest of us might figure out a reasonable way to work it out without getting attacked because we do not believe quite as you do.

    Don't muddy the waters.

    PETA and HSUS are behind the push for the ban. If for nothing else than to fill their coffers.

    "I have seen videos" good.
    Do you know who took them and why?

    Can you be 100% sure they have not been altered, either before or after the fact.

    you know certain groups who shall no longer be named have been known in the past to instigate the situation they filmed.

    They have been brought to court for falsifying information....ah, goody.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fairfax View Post
    LV mytbs...BULL POOP....they may have loaded however the BORDER VETS ONLY WORK CERTAIN HOURS..huge problems with overloading entering Canada and also.,..why would they sit at a Carvel kill pen in the U.S. when it was still legal ...to kill them there...your "story" isn't passing the .......... test
    Where did I say they were sitting at the Cavel kill pen? I am in KY and talking about the Shepherdsville auction.

    The DD with Ontario plates sat at the Shepherdsville auction most auction Mondays. He by-passed Cavel on his way to MI to unload at Jaron Gold's (who these horses were purchased for).

    After tagging and filling out the required documentation, horses were loaded again - perhaps not as many - and sent off across the border during 'business hours'.

    Since you are so well connected with the Canadian slaughter houses, maybe they will provide you with Jaron Gold's records from those days. Well, he STILL ships to Canada and STILL gets horses from KY, just no longer from Shepherdsville. Now it's Smiths Grove and Sligo.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alagirl View Post
    Can you be 100% sure they have not been altered, either before or after the fact.

    .
    Yes..the Canadian tapes were examined forensically and paid by CIFA to do so. They were proven to be unedited.



  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    And yes Bluey vidoes of how it should be done have been posted here in past discussions - you conveniently forget that as well in your rush to paranoia.
    All of us that saw those DID get the difference.
    Paranoia doesn't mean they are not after you.

    This is a black and white issue, you either agree with animal rights extremists, even if you somehow explain to yourself that is not being one, on the drives to ban slaughter, or you don't.

    When those that are for the ban keep bringing all that animal rights propaganda present for them, questionable as so much of it is, they rightfully should be grouped with animal rights followers/defenders.

    The rest of us are not saying abuse is right, just saying there are good reasons for slaughter of all kinds of animals, including horses and there should not be a ban on them, not for any of the reasons animal rights groups and their followers present.

    We always keep going around and around, animal rights followers presenting animal rights propaganda, the rest of us explaining why that is not so, really, that is abuse cases taken out of context, mismanagement, broken regulations, whatever it is.
    That happens in anything we do in life and no one calls for bans because there are broken regulations or abuses, why with horse slaughter?

    We don't ban churches or schools because the press reports abuse cases there daily, we don't ban driving because someone runs stop signs or drives drunk, we don't ban restaurants because someone broke regulations.
    We should not ban slaughter because someone abused an animal there.

    Banning because of abuses or mismanagement is using a shotgun to kill a mosquito, throwing the baby out with the bathwater and other such metaphors.

    Just think where we would be today if all that energy for bans had been used to make slaughter better and better.
    Trouble, that doesn't fit with animal rights goals, so with their continuous interference, it is not viable.

    Ask the BLM, they have been on their receiving end for decades, could not do anything right and were trumped at every step while trying.



  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Yes..the Canadian tapes were examined forensically and paid by CIFA to do so. They were proven to be unedited.
    Come on now, jetsmom.

    HSUS paid off the CIFA to say they were unedited, and of course paid off the forensic team as well.

    And paid off the USDA for those 906 pictures taken at Beltex.
    The USDA allowed some RARA terrorist to come in and brake those horses' legs and tear their eye sockets out, before those pictures were taken.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Yes..the Canadian tapes were examined forensically and paid by CIFA to do so. They were proven to be unedited.
    Of course there was no way to prove how many hands were greased so the mayhem there was as wild as it could be, or by whom.

    Animal rights propaganda makers have become better at hiding their hand, that's all.



  15. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by JGHIRETIRE View Post
    I know someone who did this but believe it's been more than 10 years ago. It was a small abbatoir and tney were kind and careful.
    This is what we had a few miles up the line here too, through the 1980's. I had no problem with it then, though I never enjoyed loading them to go. The guy was actually really cool, because he'd call my boss to see if he wanted to take for school horses those that came in sound and sane; he always knew he could get more for them alive than dead!

    But we never, ever let them go long-distance if we could help it.



  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmytbs View Post
    Come on now, jetsmom.

    HSUS paid off the CIFA to say they were unedited, and of course paid off the forensic team as well.

    And paid off the USDA for those 906 pictures taken at Beltex.
    The USDA allowed some RARA terrorist to come in and brake those horses' legs and tear their eye sockets out, before those pictures were taken.
    Y'sure Elvis didn't land off a flying saucer and do it?



  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
    flying saucer
    Is that where one can get tin hats?

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    Paranoia
    They have pills for that.
    May not be a bad idea for some to look into that option, since it has taken over your entire life.

    ************************
    \"Horses lend us the wings we lack\"



  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
    Y'sure Elvis didn't land off a flying saucer and do it?
    Makes more sense than believing workers were abusing the cows on their own, when they waited for the inspector to go back in the plant and knew they were being videotaped and would be fired, as the ones in the CA abuse.
    I would not be surprised if those workers or their families didn't find a big lump sum under their table.

    When abuse is videotaped for propaganda and it shows things that don't make any sense and are against regulations and get people fired, you have to wonder what else went on.



  20. #200
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    I watch this same drama over and over on here.

    How many pro-slaughter people posting actually have a stake in horse slaughter? How does horse slaughter affect YOU? Are you breeders, brokers, what?

    I actually have a reason to be anti- as it is- horse slaughter especially in this economy. It affects me personally.

    Does it even matter one iota either way to those crying for it?



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