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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2001
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    Los Angeles, California
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    3,495

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    Quote Originally Posted by TrotTrotPumpkn View Post
    If you want to be depressed you can read the August sale report from one of the larger auctions in my region: http://sdhorsesales.com/acrofiles/topsaug.pdf
    Could you explain what the auction means by 'loose horse' as in alley/sale
    Save Schrodinger's Cat!!!



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2011
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    1,348

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    "Loose horses" are the ones selling for meat. Not ridden through, no reserve. Just ran through loose and sold by the pound. At least that's what is called "loose horses" at the auction near here.



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
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    43,116

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    Interesting local Craiglist ad:

    ---"Hay Price Warning - $200 (All Over Texas & Oklahoma)

    Date: 2013-01-17, 1:04PM CST
    Reply to: see below
    Warning...Warning.....Warning

    I have spent the last couple of days talking to hay growers and transporters...here is what I have learned:

    Round bales are in short supply. Most large growers in a 400 mile radius are running short or are completely out of quality Horse hay. Local prices are now up to 125.00- 145.00 for quality Coastal Bermuda and as high as 130.00 for Bluesteam with some selling CRP hay for 85.00. Be aware that some people are selling hay at exagerated weight estimates and sizes to justify their cost. An average 4 X 5 roll of hay will average 900-1000lbs. 1,000lbs is pretty well the max weight a baler will roll out a 4 X 5. It is hard to look at a bale of hay and know it's weight but you can sure measure the bale and get a good idea.

    Growers all over Texas and Oklahoma are out of hay and will not have hay available again until late May or early June of this year. Weather forcasters are saying we will continue in "Severe Drought" through 2013. Expect horse quality hay in 4 X 5 rolls to push into the 150.00 to 175.00 by mid Feb. and continue upward from there. Fuel prices are down but hay transporters continue to get 3.90+ per loaded mile into Amarilllo because the is nothing here to be back-hauled meaning they drive home empty. According to multiple horse people in Colorado horse quality grass hay is breaking the bank at 225.00 to 250.00 a roll. Hay could easily hit these prices in our area if we do not get rain!

    When you find good hay buy it. Buy enough to last you 3 to 4 months and then see the savings. A net wrapped bale of hay can easily last a couple of years and still be good past the first couple of inches. With minimum rain a round bale sitting outside will still be 95% good in a year.
    Location: All Over Texas & Oklahoma."---



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
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    43,116

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5 View Post
    Could you explain what the auction means by 'loose horse' as in alley/sale
    Here, loose horses are those sold thru the ring, no one stands behind being any other than "as is".
    No guarantees, age your guess, feral or handled, how mean/bronky/broke/lame/sick or otherwise un/suitable, who knows.

    The rest of the horses are presented at least haltered, with a history and/or ridden, the auctioneer will tell about them, or the owner or agent will.

    Alley sales is horses sold directly from seller to buyer without going thru the ring.
    Some sales prohibit alley sales, some accept them if you still go thru the office and pay your commission on the sale and of course, if you have registration papers/Coggins at the office, you have to do so anyway.



  5. #45
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2011
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    1,395

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    Loose pen horses are run thru quickly. No owner or trader or agent there with a history/story to tell. The cost to run thru a low end auction loose is much lower and often these pens are termed kill pens. But there is nothing to stop anyone from bidding on a loose pen horse. I have pulled more than 1 nice horse that fell thru the cracks out of loose pens.

    Lead ins or ride ins usually have someone there telling their history/story. But not always. Sometimes they are just left and no one there and auction house staff brings them in. The fee is higher and often an on site coggins test pulled at seller expense. Nothing stops a kill buyer from bidding on lead ins or ride ins.

    I bought a nice little arab cross mare at Shipsi a couple years back. She was put thru the ring by staff and no owner present. At least the kid bringing her in hopped on her as she was green broke. Paided $25 for her and she is the sweetest gal. Cost to run her thru was $35. Not sure if the auction house ate the $10....I heard they are sending out bills to the seller.

    Hay is about $300/ton around here now.....which is about 2X typical winter cost. So no fun but do-able if you have a "drought plan". I learned years ago how to make do in drought years from my grandparents.

    I tell other horsemen all the time how to cut their cost in half. Few listen. Few wish to go to the effort. If they can not rip open a bag of affordable feed or toss out hay the the point they are wasting it cuz it is sooo darn cheap then they are not interested. These are the owners I fault. Not the people that lost their jobs in a down economy and are struggling to just feed and cloth the kids. Hard choices have to be made then.

    But I can not afford a horse any more....but out to the bar every weekend. Driving a brand new car but the horse is not fed cuz now it is getting too expensive with everything 2-3X the cost. Give me a break!

    I feed 19 hd of horse and we have cattle too. No one is starving and everybody is in great shape. Even the 3 horses over 20 yrs and also the 20yr old cow. It can be done and it is called planning and priority.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 2012
    Location
    La La Land
    Posts
    736

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    What my question is ... Are the cut worms gonna be back in WNY next year?

    As far as placing a 25yr old horse, my mom approached me about her dear poor friend that wanted to know if I wanted her 25yr old because he was still sound enough for walk trot classes. I informed my mom what I thought of her friend and the way generous offer, cough cough. (the good ole let other people take care of, and pay for your problems.) Would you believe my mom defended her friend with," well she has to pay board on all her horses and cant afford it." Friend of course keeping the 4 and 6 year olds.

    So my second question, does this imply because I keep my horses at home that it doesn't cost me anything? I guess mom thinks land taxes, hay grain and bedding are cheap. Get real mom and quit trying to be the cool hero for your friends at my expense. Ranting about this and contemplating next years hay bill, if there is any to be had, makes me think should I send it mom and have her pay it?

    Seriously my fingers are crossed for the horse situation of the future.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2010
    Location
    Connecticut
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    1,701

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    I'm with Swamp Yankee. Perhaps $6000 is too much to expect the owner of a single horse to have as cash on hand, but one should at least have something like that available on your credit card to get you through an emergency. And the family in this particular story has six horses, not one.
    When you are responsible for others....your family and your animals..you have to anticipate that things could go badly at some point.
    And while I do understand that for this family, letting go of one of their horses may be their way of cutting back, the decision to let go of the 25 year old seems a bit self serving. Unless all of the other horses are older or less sound, they could more easily sell another horse and hang onto the one that faces an uncertain future at sale.



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2008
    Location
    Missouri
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    2,202

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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampYankee View Post
    I'm sorry, but anyone who can't come up with $60, or $600, or even $6000 in a pinch for that matter has NO BUSINESS OWNING HORSES AT ALL.
    Must be nice to live in a fantasy land. Times are hard for many folks and sometimes even those who live without any debt ( besides a house payment) have a problem at one time or another coming up with $60--not to mention $6000. It is called life and we do the best with what we have. Horses are not just for those with a loaded bank account. Many people give love and excellent care to their horses w/o having loads of money.



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2000
    Location
    El Paso, TX
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    13,303

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    Quote Originally Posted by candyappy View Post
    Must be nice to live in a fantasy land. Times are hard for many folks and sometimes even those who live without any debt ( besides a house payment) have a problem at one time or another coming up with $60--not to mention $6000. It is called life and we do the best with what we have. Horses are not just for those with a loaded bank account. Many people give love and excellent care to their horses w/o having loads of money.
    Horses for the VAST majority (unless you use them to work a farm, pull a carriage as a business), are a luxury. People are not owed the right to own a horse (or any pet). If you can't afford to provide for it's care even if you have a medical emergency or job loss, even if that care may mean euth/disposal, then you have no business owning one. And that's after your bills are taken care of, , (which means you are not on food stamps/welfare, and also which, as a responsible adult would mean having health insurance (and Medicaid doesn't count.)
    I'm so sick of people being financially irresponsible yet feeling entitled to own a horse because they "love" them, yet hit hard times, and have no funds to at least shoot/dispose of, or no plans on what they can legitimately do in the horse's best interest. And then complain that "He's skinny because I can't afford to feed him" or "I have to send to the auction with no reserve, so he goes to slaughter" because there is no other option". There WAS an option, not to get the horse, unless you had the financial means, and job security to own one. And that means a savings acct to pay bills in an emergency. And not relying on a husband./boyfriend to always be there to pay bills. And taking immediate action if you have a job loss/medical emergency to get rid of the horse, whether by selling, leasing, giving away, or euthing. You don't wait until you have no money at all to take action.
    Flame away.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2006
    Location
    Fort Worth, Texas
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    4,741

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post

    When you find good hay buy it. ."---
    We signed supply contracts back in 2009 that we have kept renewing... expensive but excellant quality and we know we have the hay available... but we are only feeding eight head so its not too bad



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2012
    Posts
    5,067

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetsmom View Post
    Horses for the VAST majority (unless you use them to work a farm, pull a carriage as a business), are a luxury. People are not owed the right to own a horse (or any pet). If you can't afford to provide for it's care even if you have a medical emergency or job loss, even if that care may mean euth/disposal, then you have no business owning one. And that's after your bills are taken care of, , (which means you are not on food stamps/welfare, and also which, as a responsible adult would mean having health insurance (and Medicaid doesn't count.)
    I'm so sick of people being financially irresponsible yet feeling entitled to own a horse because they "love" them, yet hit hard times, and have no funds to at least shoot/dispose of, or no plans on what they can legitimately do in the horse's best interest. And then complain that "He's skinny because I can't afford to feed him" or "I have to send to the auction with no reserve, so he goes to slaughter" because there is no other option". There WAS an option, not to get the horse, unless you had the financial means, and job security to own one. And that means a savings acct to pay bills in an emergency. And not relying on a husband./boyfriend to always be there to pay bills. And taking immediate action if you have a job loss/medical emergency to get rid of the horse, whether by selling, leasing, giving away, or euthing. You don't wait until you have no money at all to take action.
    Flame away.
    Hear, hear! These people who think "love" conquers all, and have a dubious grasp of personal responsibility let alone intelligent financial planning, are quite often the ones who create incredible numbers of those desperate, pathetic Craigslist ads we've seen for the past 4 years.

    When I was growing up horses were well known as "rich people's hobby." That reality has not changed much, at least in populated suburban areas. I know everyone in America today feels "entitled" to just about everything, but you are doing a horse no favors at all by buying it if you can't afford proper care, feeding, shoeing/trimming and necessary vet services.

    "Crisis" by definition is short term. Most of us, in moments of duress, have whacked a credit card to come up with the vet bill, a load of hay, or board. But if the "crisis" is never solved because you can't break out of whatever pattern is MAKING it a crisis after 18 months or so, you may want to move your horses on for their own good. I say this as someone who's had to run boarders' vet bills through my own books on occasion in order to get their horse treated, after they'd had their accounts locked for non-paymnet. Just one of the many awkward little scenarios . . .

    Another too-common trainwreck is irresponsible breeding. I once had to bail out a woman with serious personal & health issues who just kept breeding more horses, though she was doing nothing but warehousing several generations previous. Imagine being asked to load a 6-year old WB who isn't even halter-broke . . . ! But she "loved" them, you undersand.

    If you TRULY love your horses, keep them DESIRABLE and capable of doing a job! And do not breed ANY foal who does not have a competent trainer, a home and a JOB waiting when it hits the ground. Impossible to emphasize this enough in today's market.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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