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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2005
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    Some where in the middle of nowhere.
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    Having been a tech that has worked on both side ..and don't get me wrong there are some fantastic general medicine vets. GO /RUN and see an internal medicine specialist. It is well worth the time/money to get to borrow the eyes ears mind and extra training.

    Hope your boy is feeling well soon and you get some answers.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada.
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    6,340

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    Quote Originally Posted by GraceLikeRain View Post
    Thanks for all of the support. I finally put my foot down with the vet yesterday afternoon and told them to do the enema or I was leaving and going to another vet. The enema helped him completely empty his bowels (.6 lbs worth of fecal matter in a 15 lb dog). The follow up xray showed no foreign bodies and a completely empty digestive track.

    Within a hour of the enema he was complete fine physically and emotionally. The minute he got home he dive-bombed my roommates 60 lb shepherd and the two of them played for almost a hour. He ate his 1/4 c of kibble the vet cleared him to eat and slept through the night.

    This is a huge relief but long term it does raise the question of why an otherwise healthy 11 month old puppy would get so backed up on his normal diet that it would cause all of these problems.

    I am definitely switching vets after this experience for a number of reasons and I was given a recommendations for two really fantastic vets in the area so I am going to give them both a call and see if I can do a trial consultation with both.

    I want to look into IBD, Food Allergies, insufficient fiber, ulcers, low gut motility, and addison's.

    I am going to start him on a 1/2 tsp of fiber supplement twice a day mixed into some chicken broth to ensure that he gets adequate moisture to balance out the extra fiber.

    So far he has never had blood or mucous in his stool, no "coffee-ground" vomits, etc. but the anorexia and bowel issues are definitely concerning.
    If you want to look into IBD, ulcers, gut motility and even "real" addisons etc. you should really seek out the internist. 95% of regular vets do not have the training for specifics on ultrasound, endoscopy etc. Take your already done bloodwork and radiographs to an internist and discuss. You may not need further testing, but if you really do want to investigate ALL those options you will absolutley need an ultrasound to start, and go from there. Hate when clients waste their money on having their regular vet ultrasound, then have to repeat it at the specialists. Its a great tool for looking for fluid etc. but when you are looking at the layers of the small intestine and colon, you need well trained eyes. Ultrasound will also help diagnose addisons, where the adrenals could be miniscule. Most regular vets cant find adrenals even when they are in the normal size range (again...no stab at regular vets, they jsut didnt spend an extra 3 years learning specifically about this!)

    From your descriptions I would think none of what you had mentioned are his actual problem based on "typical" signs. I would put my money on a colonic issue, or general motility disorder....cause, no idea...but with no melena, diarrhea or vomiting that usually rules out upper GI.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Dec. 6, 2000
    Location
    SE Mass
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    4,153

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    Quote Originally Posted by SquishTheBunny View Post
    If you want to look into IBD, ulcers, gut motility and even "real" addisons etc. you should really seek out the internist. 95% of regular vets do not have the training for specifics on ultrasound, endoscopy etc. Take your already done bloodwork and radiographs to an internist and discuss. You may not need further testing, but if you really do want to investigate ALL those options you will absolutley need an ultrasound to start, and go from there. Hate when clients waste their money on having their regular vet ultrasound, then have to repeat it at the specialists. Its a great tool for looking for fluid etc. but when you are looking at the layers of the small intestine and colon, you need well trained eyes. Ultrasound will also help diagnose addisons, where the adrenals could be miniscule. Most regular vets cant find adrenals even when they are in the normal size range (again...no stab at regular vets, they jsut didnt spend an extra 3 years learning specifically about this!)

    From your descriptions I would think none of what you had mentioned are his actual problem based on "typical" signs. I would put my money on a colonic issue, or general motility disorder....cause, no idea...but with no melena, diarrhea or vomiting that usually rules out upper GI.
    Totally agree with this. You would be amazed at the stories people post about vets doing 101 tests, at great expense, and still not diagnosing the problem. Those who take their dogs to internists usually get their diagnosis more quickly and at lesser expense. Good luck!



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2009
    Posts
    6,566

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    Another vote for an internist
    I'd probably take him off kibble.
    Have you tried him on pumpkin - a couple teaspoons with every meal may help (though I suspect his issues are bigger than this).
    Have you discussed all of this with the breeder (contact the stud owner, if different, as well)?



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2010
    Posts
    2,459

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    Sorry for the brief and grammatical incorrect post. I am writing on an iPhone without my glasses (away at a show).

    I am going to contact his insurance provider and see if his visit with the internist will be covered or partially covered since it is tied to his emergency vet bill and subsequent vet visit.
    If it isnt I'll still pursue it but it'll be a bit more challenging financially. Being a student without a full time job is very frustrating at times like these

    Alto: this is a co owned show dog so his breeder/co owner knows everything. I know both sides back to grandparents and I am currently sitting in a motor home with his two litter mates and his half sister. Both his father and grandfather (whose also at the show) suffered from intermittent anorexia from 6 months - 3 years.

    He won't touch pumpkin but i am thinking about mixing pumpkin and a probiotic and syrnging it once a day or doing a fiber supplement, probiotic, and chicken broth.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep. 22, 2008
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    1,760

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    Ditto the Internist. Soooooo much better than a GP for dealing with these types of issues. Vets are taught that when you hear hoofbeats look for hirses, not zebras. A really good GP will know a Arab from a Belgain, and will admit they don't know the first thig about Zebras outside the fact they have stripes.

    That's the simplified version of why you need an Internist. Plus, when all the armchair vets on here are hanging up their hats, it's time to break out the big guns. ;-).
    You can't fix stupid.... but you can breed it!



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Canada.
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    6,340

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    Even if your insurance company doesnt cover it, the consult alone doesnt cost much. At least you can discuss already done bloods, rads etc. as this wont cost extra. Then, if you let them know you are financially strapped they may be able to help you on a step by step basis,or help you figure things out with your insurance company if you do choose to runfurther diagnostics.

    It may be something like a simple probiotic suggestion, ACTH stim or other low cost trial/treatment.

    Keep us posted



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Aug. 3, 2004
    Location
    Vermont
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    1,416

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    Just as an fyi...my dog's consult with an internal medicine specialist last week was $110.



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