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  1. #1961
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    Aside from needing a trim and a mane pull they couldn't look much better. I hope that puts that part of the discussion to rest so we can concentrate on the deceptive business practices instead.
    I have to agree with this.

    Do I like this woman's horse keeping? No. But just because her stallions are out of shape (something we would all assume because they are not showing or anything) and need a good grooming does not need to turn into an exaggerated new line of 'she is horrible because she has an IR horse'.

    Stick to the real issues instead of turning some out of shape horses into something more than they are.



  2. #1962
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    I have to agree with this.

    Do I like this woman's horse keeping? No. But just because her stallions are out of shape (something we would all assume because they are not showing or anything) and need a good grooming does not need to turn into an exaggerated new line of 'she is horrible because she has an IR horse'.

    Stick to the real issues instead of turning some out of shape horses into something more than they are.
    I'm sorry but I have to disagree to some extent here. Yes, we need to keep it on track as to her bad business practices but I think it's very important to see how she keeps her horses. If a potential breeder or buyer of one of her horses sees these things I would hope they'd run the other way. The number one reason I didn't buy a foal from her is because I was concerned about how the mares and foals are cared for. Alone, I don't think we need to bash anyone for having an IR horse or even to speculate when we don't know the truth but I do think it's pertinant to show these things when I think one of the reasons this thread is here is to prevent others from being scammed whether it be monetary or ending up with a horse that may not have been well cared for.



  3. #1963
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack16 View Post
    I'm sorry but I have to disagree to some extent here. Yes, we need to keep it on track as to her bad business practices but I think it's very important to see how she keeps her horses. If a potential breeder or buyer of one of her horses sees these things I would hope they'd run the other way. The number one reason I didn't buy a foal from her is because I was concerned about how the mares and foals are cared for. Alone, I don't think we need to bash anyone for having an IR horse or even to speculate when we don't know the truth but I do think it's pertinant to show these things when I think one of the reasons this thread is here is to prevent others from being scammed whether it be monetary or ending up with a horse that may not have been well cared for.
    The number one reason you shouldn't buy a mare, foal or breeding from her is the fact that she is a criminal and there is a very good chance you will get screwed somehow in the transaction. Period. That is more than reason enough. It's like a ten thousand pound ice cream sundae, stop trying to put whipped cream and sprinkles on it, it is more than big enough already.



  4. #1964
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    I'll venture an observation on these photos. This, IMHO, looks like horses that are being fed grain but perhaps no quality hay or grass turnout. For horses to have a properly functioning digestive tract they have to produce a huge amount of saliva (8-10 gallons) The saliva comes from their chewing and therein lies the necessity to provide equines with plenty of good quality hay and grazing on grass and plenty of clean water. Just putting more grain in front of them - which is usually eaten and digested over a short time does not provide for a properly functioning system. This starts to set up improper processing and often an animal that is being fed alot but isn't getting a balanced nutritional intake.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"



  5. #1965
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    It's like a ten thousand pound ice cream sundae, stop trying to put whipped cream and sprinkles on it, it is more than big enough already.
    Love this...even if I would still have to have sprinkles. What good is a sundae with out sprinkles.



  6. #1966
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    Ok so if those pictures instead showed two immaculately conditioned animals that are in such great shape that they could walk into the show ring this afternoon all would be forgiven and we could sing the praises of her operation to the masses right? Didn't think so. So what is the point of doing the opposite? It is a distraction in my opinion.



  7. #1967
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    Redwine looks like a welsh cob. I don't mean that in a bad way; it's just the way he's built. I think he looks pretty good. A little flabby but he's not in work. I dont think he's morbidly obese by any means. As per the crest of his neck: I don't see anything wrong with that either. All of the stallion's I've been around in my life have had that overly cresty neck and they were show-condition and fed properly. I dont think his topline is saggy either: it's the way he's built. He looks like an overgrown pony. I do agree: he could use a visit from a hoof trimmer. Romantic Star looks good but I would like to see maybe a few pounds on him. I don't trust photo dates either so I'm not justifying that these were actually taken in July



  8. #1968
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    daisycutter87 - I couldn't disagree with you more. I own a GRP stallion so I am familiar with the issues of the neck development. Welsh Cob stallions don't look like Redwine unless they are also not on a proper nutrition plan. I can't imagine that you feel Redwine's condition in these photos is what you've seen on other stallions and feel it's acceptable.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"



  9. #1969
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    Apr. 29, 2005
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    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=insul...9,r:0,s:0,i:73

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=insul...9,r:1,s:0,i:76

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=insul...5&tx=106&ty=73

    THese pictures are all exactly what I see when I see RW. You people who think that this looks acceptable must be seeing something that I don't. I didn't look at all of the pictures in the album, but as a vet tech, if the horse in those photos walked in the clinic, we would ask how long he has been IR as a standard part of the history.
    Holly
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  10. #1970
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    I doubt anyone is saying Redwine does not look IR. But what does Redwine being IR have to do with anything that is being discussed here? There are a ton of horses in the world that are IR, are you taring and feathering those horse owners too?
    I think Jill Burnell deserves all the scrutiny in the world, but not because her stallion is clearly IR, out of shape and lacking muscle tone.



  11. #1971
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    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    I doubt anyone is saying Redwine does not look IR. But what does Redwine being IR have to do with anything that is being discussed here? There are a ton of horses in the world that are IR, are you taring and feathering those horse owners too?
    I think Jill Burnell deserves all the scrutiny in the world, but not because her stallion is clearly IR, out of shape and lacking muscle tone.
    I think it just ends up being lumped into the summation that over all her animals are not being cared for within the standards that any breeder should ad-hear by.

    Thin horses , obese horses , stallions with possible untreated medical issues (don't forget the photo of Federalist's swollen weeping eye ) , unwell foals with large worm burdens, farrier needs not being maintained /met etc.

    I think over all it is just another straw of proof if you will that she is NOT what she portrays herself to be to her customers.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  12. #1972
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    trubandloki --
    Those pics were posted in response to several people wondering where the stallions were and if they were okay.

    I posted that RW looked seriously IR as an observation. It would be speculation to say whether JB is or is not managing it. It can be tough to manage.

    While it went off topic as to JB's business dealings, at least a lot of people got a "primer" on IR -- and that's a good thing .



  13. #1973
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    Yes the issue is proper care and diet for ALL the horses - Stallions, mares, young horses and foals. It would be rare for a farm owner to be varying the level of care of these various groups. And even with mares - especially those in foal - the level of care DOES affect the in utero foals in many ways - some that they carry through their entire life.
    I've see photos of Redwine on her advertisements - the ones posted here show a considerable difference.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
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  14. #1974
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    WHO CARES!?! If the horses looked like God himself was caring for them on a daily basis I would not do business with her. You guys are discussing lipstick shades on a pig. It's still a pig.



  15. #1975
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    Quote Originally Posted by rapazzini09 View Post
    i take it Jill doesn't work her horses? It is shame that Redwine's weight isn't being managed and he isn't being exercised.
    Where would she exercise them? The Petaluma ranch did not have any arenas. The one arena that was there was converted into the stallion pens the horses where photographed in.

    That little property was jammed packed with horses. No place for any of them, mares, foals or stallions to properly exercise.
    APPSOLUTE CHOCKLATE - Photo by Kathy Colman



  16. #1976
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    I'm happy to see they're fed, with a good coat. I do not see fat deposits under the skin on red wine at all. I see muscles under his coat and although he is a little chunky, he is not morbidly obese by an means. He is a stallion out of work. This is ridiculous and you're all blowing his condition WAY out of the water. Could he afford to lose a few pounds? Yes he could. Is he morbidly obese? Absolutely not. I'd say his condition is MUCH better off than him skin and bones and under-fed. Besides for his lack of hoof trim; he looks quite healthy. ise@ssl: you obviously have not been around cob stallions.



  17. #1977
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    He's not a Cob... you are comparing apples and cumquats.

    I agree that is highlights the lack of proper care for all the horses.
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  18. #1978
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    I compare his build to this stallion (who i found through a quick google search)

    http://www.allstallionsdirectory.com...3/hn0023lg.JPG

    I dont consider him fat either...



  19. #1979
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    Is IR genetically inheritable? (Hope I worded that correctly)

    My selle x holst/tb mare is quite the lump with a somewhat cresty neck, and I know her sire had quite the neck as well. Even when he was being ridden and exercised.



  20. #1980
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    Quote Originally Posted by daisycutter87 View Post
    I compare his build to this stallion (who i found through a quick google search)

    http://www.allstallionsdirectory.com...3/hn0023lg.JPG

    I dont consider him fat either...
    But he is fat. Not being offensive but the stallion in your photo is plump. I know fat glossy horses make horse owners feel good but there is a fine dangerous line that we walk between fat and glossy and fat with obesity related health issues.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



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