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  1. #1881
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    Nov. 5, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
    No...we "did" vaccinate the mare. But she's claiming the mare had a foal afoot. The mare did NOT have a foal by her side. And as noted in my previous post, I absolutely will NOT risk exposing a foal to the active "hot" virus that you risk being expelled by the mare post breeding. NOT worth the risk. Am I absolutely, 100% clear on this? . I have ALWAYS made that statement. But once again, Jill is attempt to down play the concerns and trivialize it to the point of claiming I'm lying about the topic and I'm "jealous" of her. <shrug> Whatever.
    Thanks for weighing in. I wasn't sure if you were the "Kathy" referred to in the PM, but I *knew* you wouldn't risk breeding a mare with a nursing foal to an EVA positive stallion.



  2. #1882
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    Nov. 19, 2005
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    The PM looks like there is more than one behind the scene gossiper to me.
    I am sorry Equine Reproduction even has to explain any of this.



  3. #1883
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    Dec. 30, 2010
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    Dallas, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by omare View Post
    The PM looks like there is more than one behind the scene gossiper to me.
    I am sorry Equine Reproduction even has to explain any of this.
    I was thinking the same thing. With one piece of a message taken out of context it is a little confusing as to what is being discussed here
    Sheila Armstrong



  4. #1884
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    Jan. 15, 2008
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    Chapel Hill and Southern Pines, North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yowsa View Post
    You know, the more I think about this, the more I'm interested in how she rose to the levels she did. I know little of JB, I'd assume she obviously was a BN in the hunter world? Had some money, brought over some fancy stallions, and started acquiring mares? She has a fabulous website and either has sold a ton of breedings and horses (priced 10k plus) or done very good lying about it.

    As someone that struggles to find the connections to legitamately sell a couple horses a year, without fraud, how did she manage to con all these people? How did she develop such a huge network, market, and become such a hot commodity? If the fraudulent behaviour was always there, it makes you wonder why it took this long. Or was she on the up-and-up for awhile and then tanked? I remember not that long ago if her name came up on these boards everyone sung her praises. What flicked the switch?

    I'm curious because of the sheer volume of people affected. How did this go on and on and on for so long that the list of victims ended up so long? I would love to be able to market like she DID, and have the flock of people gravitate to me. What was the draw? You have to admit from that standpoint, she marketed well, and obviously knows about horses. It amazes me how far she was able to take it before word started getting around. I wonder what was the catalyst that changed opinion from "she's stellar" to "watch your back" if things had been less than honest the entire time.

    Anyone know more about how she ended up with the fame she had, the good reputation, and the huge client base, before it all started to sink?
    Yowza...not a BN hunter person....track hanger...TBs...I was around in Northern CA when the "Invention" of JB began. First heard from a stallion owner about JB from a stallion owner...SO said she got "stiffed" on a breeding...then the stallion purchase! Redwine bought in partnership...co-owner sued shortly after. She never lived anywhere but the wee farm now foreclosed on. But brilliant marketing...and vicious posse of friends, alters, etc. red flags waving early on but god bless the Internet and great strategy! then more stallions, more mares, and so many enablers along the way! Horse world keeps quiet...who wants trouble? Personal stories of woe only dots not connected! And no one wants to diss those with offspring they love...they didn't know they were dealing with such a misery!
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com



  5. #1885

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    Opinions (yes opinion ) vary about the suceptibility of the foal at foot.
    My two vets had no issue with the possibility of breeding a mare with a foal onside with EVA positive semen (frozen in this case) as long as the mare was vaccinated or had the appropriate titer level.

    Their opinon also alligns with what IronSpring Farm has published on their website as to the protocol for breeding to their EVA positive stallion.

    They mention that the foal should be healthy (don't expose an already debilitated foal to a potential respiratory disease-makes sense) and that is it. Vaccinated mare do not need to be isolated for any periode of time after breeding with eva+ semen if their titers have tested high ennough (immune response active I would presume?).

    Iron spring farm site

    Kathy is very clear that she is not willing to take that chance with her foals and she has always been clear on that from her perpective and I know because I talked to her about it way back when I was looking at breeding to Florencio.

    I just wanted to point out that I've heard differently when seeking information from my vet and from Iron Spring Farm.
    VĂ©ronique
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  6. #1886
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    Nov. 28, 2003
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    MO
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    Quote Originally Posted by omare View Post
    The PM looks like there is more than one behind the scene gossiper to me.
    I am sorry Equine Reproduction even has to explain any of this.
    This is exactly what I was thinking. I'm just glad Kathy does take the time to get the word out; what a pain-in-the rear to have to deal with this.
    Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
    --Winston Churchill
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227
    www.HillsideHRanch.com



  7. #1887
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    I think JB adheres to the George Costanza philosophy..."It's NOT a lie, if YOU believe it..."



  8. #1888
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    Feb. 2, 2003
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    Wynnewood, Oklahoma
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formosus View Post
    Opinions (yes opinion ) vary about the suceptibility of the foal at foot.
    Yup. And, there are varying opinions about how much coverage a foal receives from its dam.

    Kathy is very clear that she is not willing to take that chance with her foals and she has always been clear on that from her perpective and I know because I talked to her about it way back when I was looking at breeding to Florencio..
    Exactly. I have always made it very, very clear that it is NOT a risk I'm willing to take. Others may be. But, I do believe it absolutely must be an informed decision and Jill Burnell's claims that Redwine has a "mild" case of the disease, etc. is NOT providing mare owners with accurate information with which to make that determination. Smoke and mirrors. And indeed, she has advocated in the past, breeding mares without vaccinating at all . Repeatedly. Ad nauseam. "Teller of untruths your pants have combusted" - e.g. Jill !

    NJ Rider, in answer to your question, mares cannot become carriers of the disease. If an unexposed mare was "exposed" to an EVA positive stallion, you would want to isolate her for the duration of that acute stage. But, after that, she is essentially inoculated for the disease and would subsequently, just need to be boosted to maintain that status. She would not be able to pass the disease on to other horses unless they were exposed to her during that period post breeding - usually it is recommended 4 weeks isolation in those circumstances.
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  9. #1889
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    Dec. 14, 2007
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    With one piece of a message taken out of context it is a little confusing as to what is being discussed here
    This message went back 2 1/2 years ago, a month or so before I bred my mare to Redwine. As I said, just came across it now when I was housecleaning my PM's and thought "How interesting". (and this was the entire message from Jill - it wasnt a snippet or only part of the message to me). Even back then it was all about duping the mare owners into believing it was okay AND I thought that Kathy especially would find it "interesting" and ironic, how her name was being dropped into the conversation, as in "If Kathy does it with her mare with a foal at side, it MUST be okay for everyone else to do!"

    I know - I 100% KNOW without one shred of doubt, that Kathy would never have done that. We've had many conversations in the past on this very subject and I know how deadset she is against breeding to an EVA positive stallion with a foal at side. For all of the reasons she stated up above.

    I am also glad that once again, within the context of this thread, that Kathy has had the chance to re-iterate her stand on all of this

    I know that we all owe her a lot for bringing so many issues and misconceptions about EVA to the forefront and has forced certain stallions owners to be a little more honest in their handling and management of their EVA positive stallions and what they say to mare owners ...



  10. #1890
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    Nov. 19, 2005
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    You reposted the statements made by JB in that PM without any explaination or context.

    It could easily have been taken another way.

    It is a good thing ER does bother to comment to corect such things. But she should not have to do that.
    Last edited by omare; Sep. 20, 2012 at 11:33 AM.



  11. #1891
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    Aug. 21, 2012
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    obviously there was some misunderstanding; glad that things have been corrected. there's no need to get all worked up. The PM was quoted in this thread because Jill was obviously LYING about situations involving other people through PM in order to make her sound more reputable. Unfortunately some people misunderstood what was quoted/what was said. Carry on...



  12. #1892
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    one needs to be careful quoting other people's "misstatements"



  13. #1893
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    Jun. 11, 2004
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    Still here ~ not yet there
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ransom's Rider View Post
    For what it's worth - I was at an ISR/Oldenburg inspection yesterday and there was a lovely Redwine filly presented who was Reserve Champion Filly with a first-of-the-year 9 for type. The judge loved her and made interesting comments about how Redwine has produced better here in the US than in Germany because he seems to nick really well with American mares. I found it interesting, thought someone here might as well.
    I find it interesting as well, since "American" WB horses are all of the same lineage as German/Dutch/Danish, etc WB horses. That's where we got them!

    There is no "American" WB; the only exception would be American TBs, which only 10-15 yrs ago the German inspectors were looking down their nose at. So what changed?



  14. #1894
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    Jun. 2, 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by daisycutter87 View Post
    obviously there was some misunderstanding; glad that things have been corrected. there's no need to get all worked up. The PM was quoted in this thread because Jill was obviously LYING about situations involving other people through PM in order to make her sound more reputable. Unfortunately some people misunderstood what was quoted/what was said. Carry on...
    Perhaps people become a little tetchy when Private Messages are posted?



  15. #1895
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    Jun. 24, 2006
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    Kyzteke, perhaps a more TB mare base? Also more Hunter types instead of Dressage or Jumper type mares?



  16. #1896
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    No--I think it is inappropriate to repost without any type of explaination other than rolly eyes-(??) -a PM that contains several misstatements that individually and as a whole might not be obvious to all reading it and requires the subject of the PM to post an explaination. That is not fair to that person.

    If you repost mistatements made about somebody else, unqualified and unexplained, you are rolling them forward.



  17. #1897
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    Quote Originally Posted by omare View Post
    No--I think it is inappropriate to repost without any type of explaination other than rolly eyes-(??) -a PM that contains several misstatements that individually and as a whole might not be obvious to all reading it and requires the subject of the PM to post an explaination. That is not fair to that person.

    If you repost mistatements made about somebody else, unqualified and unexplained, you are rolling them forward.
    So back to the thread about Jill Burnell and her nefarious business practices
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  18. #1898
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    Jan. 15, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicteetango View Post
    Kyzteke, perhaps a more TB mare base? Also more Hunter types instead of Dressage or Jumper type mares?
    Don't think more "hunter" based as most TB mares of today NOT hunter based per se BUT definitely the TB influence. Forget "hunter" issue...personally think a Rotspon for any discipline needs lightening up. My personal feeling...stress personal...is of short legs, big body and heavy. As for his sons? Well, the one I saw fits that to a tee! Disregarding what DISCIPLINE breeding for? A Great TB mare in my book the best choice! (nod to you LR! Steal your mare in a heartbeat lol).
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com



  19. #1899
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    Dec. 30, 2010
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    Not to deter this thread again now that it has moved on, but I did mean out of context in the conversation, not out of context in the one message.

    I guess to the extent it shows that Jill was downplaying EVA in 2010 (or maybe 2009 if it was back when Donna's now 2 1/2 year old filly was conceived??) it can be construed as nefarious.

    Carry on...
    Sheila Armstrong



  20. #1900
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    Dec. 14, 2007
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    Sheila A - it was March 2010 and I was debating breeding one or both of my mares to Redwine. Both would have had foals at side and that was my dilema - was it safe to do so and what precautions did I need to take to ensure the safety of the foals? And one of the foals wouldnt have belonged to me, so that was another wrinkle thrown into the equation

    I do believe that I also asked Kathy her opinion which contradicted what Jill had told me, so I PM'd Jill again asking for clarification and this message was her response

    So yes - very much downplaying any implication or danger to a foal at the mare's side



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