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  1. #1401
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2008
    Location
    SE, PA
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    1,074

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeucesWild11 View Post
    Hi moonwitch! She was probably selling the colt option or the filly option. You can "sell" both options to an inutero foal-and whichever comes out gets sold to the person who reserved that option. Actually you could sell more- bay colt option, chestnut colt option, etc... But that was probably what you saw
    Ahhhh - thanks for the education!! I'm sure she's "sold" as many as she can then!
    Our horses know our secrets; we braid our tears into their manes and whisper our hopes into their ears.



  2. #1402
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2003
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    842

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheila A View Post
    She mentioned on another board that she was going to be doing some ETs this year so maybe that is the reason. See post #27: http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...ml#post6507089
    Grand Affair may not be up for one more back to back to back pregnancy..Maybe Jill had her in mind...God the prospects of the ET extraction via Gray Fox Farm sicken me.....since Jill has trouble getting sick and lame horses treated..UGH!



  3. #1403
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    163

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    Here is the discussion on Pop Tart. I looked for it earlier but did not find it before I had to log off. I have to say, the GRAY Fox Farms threads have made interesting reading over the years...

    http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...re-366745.html
    Sheila Armstrong



  4. #1404
    Join Date
    Dec. 19, 2005
    Location
    Some where in the middle of nowhere.
    Posts
    3,605

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    Quote Originally Posted by TWF View Post
    Grand Affair may not be up for one more back to back to back pregnancy..Maybe Jill had her in mind...God the prospects of the ET extraction via Gray Fox Farm sicken me.....since Jill has trouble getting sick and lame horses treated..UGH!
    Sadly I don't think JB gives a rats behind whether a mare might be "up" for another pregnancy. I don't think I've ever seen her rest a mare or let them take a year off voluntarily just the occasional one she could not get in foal.
    "I would not beleive her if her tongue came notorized"



  5. #1405
    Join Date
    Feb. 15, 2004
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    7,865

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    Are they still as enamoured with Gray Fox Farm and Jill Burnell on that board? I do not read it, but wow.. "a well respected member.." are they still singing that tune?



  6. #1406
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2005
    Location
    Paris, Kentucky
    Posts
    3,200

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Sadly I don't think JB gives a rats behind whether a mare might be "up" for another pregnancy. I don't think I've ever seen her rest a mare or let them take a year off voluntarily just the occasional one she could not get in foal.
    I'm not defending Jill in any way, but you can't just "rest them a year" or let them take a year off". It doesn't work that way. There have been multiple discussions on here and on this board. Older mares need to stay pregnant to keep their fertility. People giving them a year off are NOT doing them any favors.

    If they are not maintaining weight or have some other issue, you really have to examine your program and make changes, but giving them a year off only ensures that some of them will never have another pregnancy and we know what happens to those!
    Holly
    www.ironhorsefrm.com
    Oldenburg foals and young prospects
    LIKE us on Facebook!



  7. #1407
    Join Date
    Jul. 28, 2004
    Posts
    168

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    I am worried about another mare at Gray Fox. If the Farm implodes what do you all think is going to become of all these mares?

    I started the gray Trakehner mare Porta von Westfalica under saddle for her former owner. She had the most kind, willing temperament and a beautiful trot. Anyone know if she is okay?



  8. #1408
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2004
    Location
    Rolling hills of Virginny
    Posts
    5,954

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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    Are they still as enamoured with Gray Fox Farm and Jill Burnell on that board? I do not read it, but wow.. "a well respected member.." are they still singing that tune?
    That thread SheilaA linked is from 2010. I do believe the worm has turned in the thread Daventry started over there.
    The plural of anecdote is not data.



  9. #1409
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,470

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheila A View Post
    Here is the discussion on Pop Tart. I looked for it earlier but did not find it before I had to log off. I have to say, the GRAY Fox Farms threads have made interesting reading over the years...

    http://www.horsegroomingsupplies.com...re-366745.html
    Wow reading through that old thread from 2010 and most of those people were wrong about JB. And then it just died when she got called out...



  10. #1410
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
    Location
    Aiken SC
    Posts
    556

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    Just an update. I am getting quite a few emails from people that are contacting other authorities and getting responses, both in Canada and the US, such as the state and federal vets, registries etc with their concerns and have confirmation that those authorities are looking at the photo's posted on line etc.

    I am working through trying to contact people regarding horses posted on Jill's web site that they say belong to them and have never been on her farm, such as mares with supposed foals and asking to include that material with my other information obtained such as signed contracts etc as it also shows a form or fraud. We have captured web shots of the pages and photos, listings of foal that cannot belong to her that she lists as sold because she doesn't own the mare etc in case she gets wind of it and takes them down.

    Just an FYI, this will NOT be a quick process unfortunately. As I noted in the beginning, I am going on 2 years with the guy in IN but we appear to finally be nearing the end of that road and he is now served with papers to either pay up or go to jail, but for those of you waiting with bated breath to see what happens, you can let out your breath and sit down on the sofa with a nice glass of wine LOL.

    I will continue to keep this list updated and let you know when the paper work has actually been sent to the AG, and responses etc.

    On another note, I have a friend that is a very small but very high quality breeder in CA. I was very surprised to see when I went to the GFF page on Facebook that her farm was listed as a "like". I sent her a private email with a link to this thread and she emailed back almost immediately and was horrified and had "unliked" the page and was passing the link on to others she knows that she also doesn't think is aware of what has been going on. So yes, some of the good we are doing is getting the info out into areas where it has not previously been.

    EVERYONE KEEP IT UP.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  11. #1411
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    163

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    Quote Originally Posted by FalseImpression View Post
    Are they still as enamoured with Gray Fox Farm and Jill Burnell on that board? I do not read it, but wow.. "a well respected member.." are they still singing that tune?
    I do not go there with any regularity so I am not sure, but when I went to look for those posts this morning I noticed that Jill's last post was in March of this year. I would go to that board when a facebook post tipped me off that something was going on, but I could probably count on one hand how many times that happened. The two links I posted today were two of them.

    For the record, I will tell my very short tale of my brief interaction with Jill just because I am so disgusted with her "lab" and so sorry that I ever contacted her.

    I won a "free" breeding in her newsletter. I sent her a contract on a mare, then later decided to breed a 3-yr old who I thought would cross very well with Romantic Star. I tried to reach her to ask about switching mares and she did not return emails or calls. After some prompting by a mutual friend she finally called me and agreed to let me switch mares.

    First cycle Jill was very responsive, she shipped semen, everything was perfect, clean culture, cytology clear, mare ovulates within 10 hours of insemination, mare does not get pregnant. Next cycle, my repro person cannot reach Jill to order semen. I fax, I call, I email, she calls me back citing the two hour time difference as the issue, whatever, she ships the semen. I asked for two doses, she sent two, the cap was off of one and the second had air in it. Motility in the one with the air was just under 30%. That was the better of the two. Not normal for Romantic Star from what I understand. My repro guy calls me and says "what do you want to do, mare is ready today?" We talked about it and decided to try the dose with the air in it. Again, everything is perfect, mare ovulated by morning. Mare ends up open at day 14. I sent her to the trainer the next day.

    Was the first shipment contaminated and was that the issue? Who knows. I will never know. I will always wonder. It was early May last year, probably one of the busiest times of the year for breeding so I can definitely see Jill being less than clean in a rush to get everything done that she needed to get done that day, but again, I will never know. I can say that culture and cytology on that mare this year were again just fine so maybe not.

    People tried to tell me to walk away from the moment I won that breeding but it was a free breeding to a very nice stallion and I figured I had nothing to lose, nothing but two collection fees and vet bills. All of that said, I think any "damages" I may have suffered are far too speculative to pursue and not worth my time.

    I did learn a big lesson from this. As so many have said, there are many very nice stallions out there with reputable owners and it is not worth dealing with people who cannot effectively take care of business. It is not worth the time, it is not worth the heartache, and it is not worth the stress of wondering if you will actually be able to reach the stallion owner and if she will actually ship the semen while your mare is standing at a repro clinic at $20 a day.
    Sheila Armstrong



  12. #1412
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    19,766

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by equinedriver View Post
    Just an update. I am getting quite a few emails from people that are contacting other authorities and getting responses, both in Canada and the US, such as the state and federal vets, registries etc with their concerns and have confirmation that those authorities are looking at the photo's posted on line etc.

    I am working through trying to contact people regarding horses posted on Jill's web site that they say belong to them and have never been on her farm, such as mares with supposed foals and asking to include that material with my other information obtained such as signed contracts etc as it also shows a form or fraud. We have captured web shots of the pages and photos, listings of foal that cannot belong to her that she lists as sold because she doesn't own the mare etc in case she gets wind of it and takes them down.

    Just an FYI, this will NOT be a quick process unfortunately. As I noted in the beginning, I am going on 2 years with the guy in IN but we appear to finally be nearing the end of that road and he is now served with papers to either pay up or go to jail, but for those of you waiting with bated breath to see what happens, you can let out your breath and sit down on the sofa with a nice glass of wine LOL.

    I will continue to keep this list updated and let you know when the paper work has actually been sent to the AG, and responses etc.

    On another note, I have a friend that is a very small but very high quality breeder in CA. I was very surprised to see when I went to the GFF page on Facebook that her farm was listed as a "like". I sent her a private email with a link to this thread and she emailed back almost immediately and was horrified and had "unliked" the page and was passing the link on to others she knows that she also doesn't think is aware of what has been going on. So yes, some of the good we are doing is getting the info out into areas where it has not previously been.

    EVERYONE KEEP IT UP.
    Great job! I am so glad something is finally being done. I know it is a long road but it is a step in the right direction. I was at a show this morning and several people asked who my filly was by. One person commented that she was really nice and that she wanted to breed her mare to him. So I gently told her the stallion was nice, the owner, not so much and encouraged her to do her homework. Hopefully that is good enough.



  13. #1413
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2004
    Location
    Rolling hills of Virginny
    Posts
    5,954

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheila A View Post
    I do not go there with any regularity so I am not sure, but when I went to look for those posts this morning I noticed that Jill's last post was in March of this year.
    Yes, but she's been on the board, reading everything. She may not be posting to any threads, but she's sending PMs.
    The plural of anecdote is not data.



  14. #1414
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2006
    Location
    Lexington, Kentucky
    Posts
    3,291

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Horse Farm View Post
    I'm not defending Jill in any way, but you can't just "rest them a year" or let them take a year off". !
    Actually, yes you can.
    We're spending our money on horses and bourbon. The rest we're just wasting.
    www.dleestudio.com



  15. #1415
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2011
    Posts
    581

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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Horse Farm View Post
    I'm not defending Jill in any way, but you can't just "rest them a year" or let them take a year off". It doesn't work that way. There have been multiple discussions on here and on this board. Older mares need to stay pregnant to keep their fertility. People giving them a year off are NOT doing them any favors.

    If they are not maintaining weight or have some other issue, you really have to examine your program and make changes, but giving them a year off only ensures that some of them will never have another pregnancy and we know what happens to those!
    yes you absolutely can! i work at a major tb farm in ky and it happens quite often!
    Last edited by evntr5218; Aug. 29, 2012 at 03:24 PM. Reason: typo



  16. #1416
    Join Date
    Jun. 8, 2010
    Posts
    330

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    WOOOOW, the pop tart thread is interesting. I vetted that mare, I know exactly what her issues were, which was why I walked away after putting a deposit down. JB denying the surgery, which she DID have... and I know this for a fact, I have the vet's documentation to prove it.

    Just another in a long line of lies



  17. #1417
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2003
    Posts
    6,820

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    We breed our mares every other year or have them off even more than that. It's hooey that they have to be bred every year. Mares in the wild don't have a foal every single year either. We keep our foals on the mares longer as all the studies have shown this reduces ulcers and other issues. We don't feel mares are machines and with the economy in the tank I feel it's a bit reckless to breed every mare every year. Even good horses are showing up at the killer sales.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"



  18. #1418
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2005
    Location
    Paris, Kentucky
    Posts
    3,200

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    Holly
    www.ironhorsefrm.com
    Oldenburg foals and young prospects
    LIKE us on Facebook!



  19. #1419
    Join Date
    Jan. 15, 2008
    Location
    Chapel Hill and Southern Pines, North Carolina
    Posts
    2,412

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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    Hey, I have foals for sale by Redwine out of Strapless (or whoever that famous hunter mare was). For that matter, I have foals for sale by Redwine out of Sapphire. Black colt, red colt, bay colt, black filly, red filly, bay filly - take your pick! Guaranteed to win at Devon, at Warrenton, at wherever you want! Will win the hack, the jumping course, and the whole shooting match! Only $20K each, send down payment of $10K immediately to reserve your foal! Parentage verification or registration papers, you say? Who cares - these are H/J foals!
    Oh DY.....hahahahahahaaaaaaaa!
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com



  20. #1420
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2011
    Posts
    581

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    Quote Originally Posted by ise@ssl View Post
    We breed our mares every other year or have them off even more than that. It's hooey that they have to be bred every year. Mares in the wild don't have a foal every single year either. We keep our foals on the mares longer as all the studies have shown this reduces ulcers and other issues. We don't feel mares are machines and with the economy in the tank I feel it's a bit reckless to breed every mare every year. Even good horses are showing up at the killer sales.
    couldnt agree more!



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