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  1. #1161
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2008
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    4,589

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    Quote Originally Posted by rodawn View Post
    As for the eye, well, that needs treatment, but again a picture and vague comments do not determine whether treatment is occurring or not. All we can do is speculate but speculation are not facts.
    Agree. And there is no way to determine his body condition truly in that picture. Yes, he looks a little ribby, but without seeing a full side view it's impossible to say if it's a weight/condition issue or an age issue. His coat looks decent, his ears and demeanor alert.

    I think folks need to be very careful about not turning this bus away from what can be proven, today, as actionable issues. While it might turn out eventually that some horses could be getting better care, I've yet to see any picture of an animal there that is alarming. As other very smart people keep trying to drill home, the business problems are provable, evidence is available, and witnesses galore. Stay on that particular highway without taking any alarmist exits.
    "Aye God, Woodrow..."



  2. #1162
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    277

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    IMHO, all these OT comments are over shadowing the original intent of this thread. The folks that have legitimate complaints that they can document against Jill Burnell and/or Gray Fox Farms should contact EquineDriver. It accomplishes nothing for folks to get their knickers in a twist and then not follow up (legally) to stop her.

    I am not a victim and grateful for these threads since breeding is full of its' own set of dramas without adding to it needlessly. Kudos to EquineDriver to offering to help organize the legal process ... and an even bigger thanks to the stallion owners who go the extra mile to help mare owners be successful!



  3. #1163
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    277

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    BTW ... with over 155k views and 59 pages to this thread (and still growing), it is staying towards the top of the Goggle search and COTH forum. If you want to help spread the word, share this thread on your Facebook page, email it to others that may have interest, and post to other forums you're involved in. The more information that EquineDriver can accumulate, the better your chances to resolve the issues!



  4. #1164
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2009
    Location
    Upstate NY
    Posts
    2,243

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    Well, all I can say about that eye (the left one) is that my gelding banged his eye this spring and had a nice swollen bone, and it was held closed. No discharge. I kept him in a fly mask, and hovered around him until it started to go down, had the vet out, did tests and gave him banamine until we knew there wasn't a lesion on the eye. I was anxious and embarrased to think anyone might see him with the swollen eye, and made sure folks knew he was being treated for it. I wouldn't have used a nice day as a photo op with him during that time. He had no discharge, but I have had a horse with Uveitis and kept his face clean and treated him appropriately when it was acting up. I don't know what make a person take photos with a horse's eye like that. I don't care that its not JB in the photo, if its the owner or other friends, it still is a bad judgement call, and if JB doesn't realize there is something going on with the horse's eye, then its being neglected.

    Hooray for Jill, she got a photo of one of her stallions with pretty girls and the bad eye in the shade. Is that what that is all about?

    Bad form.
    Trainer's website - photos of my horse Airborne under About and Francesca Edwards also in media page 1

    http://www.patricianorciadressage.com/



  5. #1165
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2007
    Location
    Andover, MA
    Posts
    5,834

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    NOT defending JB here, but in all of the photos of Federalist on his webpage, he is showing rib... back when he was competing. In the more recent photo, yes there is rib, but the photo doesn't show enough, really, to judge.

    If anything, I see way too many FAT horses than skinny ones, and occasionally have to argue with my BO and my trainer about why I want to be able to easily feel the mare's ribs, and see them in the right light. (Was at Mass Morgan last weekend and sheesh, the equine corpulence was overwhelming... especially since Morgans are prone to IR and Cushings disease as they age.)

    OTOH I wouldn't post a photo of a horse with an eye that looked like that, except maybe to a veterinary forum. My mare's left eye sometimes gets a weepy and the lids get swollen, and a week worth of ophthalmic antibiotics takes care of it. I may ride her during that time (because it isn't really uncomfortable for her) but would not take photos or show her...
    You have to have experiences to gain experience.

    Proudly owned by Mythic Feronia, 1998 Morgan mare; G-dspeed Trump & Minnie; welcome 2014 Morgan filly MtnTop FlyWithMeJosephine



  6. #1166
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2011
    Posts
    6

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    I was told there is someone on this thread putting together a class action complaint or lawsuit against Jill Burnell.

    I would love to join this. Please contact me whoever you are!

    urciegirl@aol.com

    Sally Cobb
    Tapestry Meadows Equestrian Center
    Valley Center, California



  7. #1167
    Join Date
    Jan. 24, 2000
    Location
    Somewhere in the Midwest
    Posts
    2,125

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    Quote Originally Posted by equinedriver View Post
    I am in the process of getting back to the people that have contacted me and gathering the needed documentation. There are several that have stepped forward.

    I will repeat again, the only thing that is really going to get any action is for a group of victims of fraud to come forward, give me documentation of payment and contracts that prove fraud and let me submit them to the CA Ag and the FBI. FWIW, I have made contact with both in CA and they were very receptive to the information that I gave them, but of course, nothing can be done until we have documented proof. Part of what is important, for any of you out there still on the fence, is a pattern of deception and behavior when proving fraud. Otherwise it is just a bad business deal and you may be told to pursue it in civil court, which I and others have explained we realize is not realistic in terms of travel and expenses. Obviously, she doesn't care if people sue her, they have and won, but can't collect their judgements, which is what she counts on.

    What I am trying to do is get the authorities to go after her CRIMINALLY, which usually does motivate them, as most people want to stay out of jail.

    So please, any of you out there with signed unfulfilled contracts, monies paid for goods or services not received, please do contact me.
    Is there any way equinedriver's info can be saved at the top as a "sticky"?



  8. #1168
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2003
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    842

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    DOES anyone know where the stallions ARE?
    I can't see how she would keep them at the GFF location.
    If you are local to GFF...please contact me Tellwynd@aol.com



  9. #1169
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    4,019

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    In one of the old threads, wasn't it mentioned that she'd sent some horses to Colorado?

    I know she posted on FB about having difficulty with a shipper in Colorado (and at the time, I thought, hmm, a payment issue?)...maybe they were horses she'd sold, but I got the impression they were hers?
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  10. #1170
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2012
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    588

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    http://www.grayfoxfarms.com/rioja.htm

    does anyone have any infor on this foal bred by gff? maybe its just me but it looks not too great.......
    Clancy 17hh chestnut Dutch WB, '99. Owned and loved since '04 and still goin'!



  11. #1171
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    20,145

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    I understand that we need to mention Redwine for the search engines to pick up that keyword but I personally am happy this has not deteriorated into a discussion of his merits as a stallion as many of these threads have. Whether he is the greatest of all time or the worst of all time makes no difference if you never get your semen or your foal or your mare and foal or your breeding certificate etc. Animals have no choice is who their owners are and should not be guilty by association. BUT that doesn't mean I feel anyone should breed to him as long as he has the same connections.



  12. #1172
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2012
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    588

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    Quote Originally Posted by quietann View Post
    NOT defending JB here, but in all of the photos of Federalist on his webpage, he is showing rib... back when he was competing. In the more recent photo, yes there is rib, but the photo doesn't show enough, really, to judge.

    noticed that too. But the eye hasn't always been funky.... :/
    Clancy 17hh chestnut Dutch WB, '99. Owned and loved since '04 and still goin'!



  13. #1173
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    20,145

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehzebra View Post
    http://www.grayfoxfarms.com/rioja.htm

    does anyone have any infor on this foal bred by gff? maybe its just me but it looks not too great.......
    He looks awesome to me.



  14. #1174
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2010
    Location
    Collingwood, ON
    Posts
    72

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    Quote Originally Posted by TWF View Post
    DOES anyone know where the stallions ARE?
    I can't see how she would keep them at the GFF location.
    If you are local to GFF...please contact me Tellwynd@aol.com
    This!

    Where is Redwine? I know that he showed at one point.. I am assuming that he is not showing any more? Is he ridden at all? He was a nice enough hunter, if she is that far in debt why wouldn't she try to sell the stallion as a show horse?
    Braeburn Farms
    Collingwood, ON

    Facebook



  15. #1175
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
    Location
    SE WI- Midwest
    Posts
    3,502

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehzebra View Post
    http://www.grayfoxfarms.com/rioja.htm

    does anyone have any infor on this foal bred by gff? maybe its just me but it looks not too great.......
    Looks like a very young foal. Often they do show some rib when they are just born/ very young, but they usually put on weight pretty quickly.



  16. #1176
    Join Date
    Dec. 30, 2010
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    165

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehzebra View Post
    http://www.grayfoxfarms.com/rioja.htm

    does anyone have any infor on this foal bred by gff? maybe its just me but it looks not too great.......
    The owner of this one posted on Jill's facebook page the other day looking for papers :-/

    Looks like she is in Georgia.
    Last edited by Sheila A; Aug. 25, 2012 at 10:52 PM. Reason: typo
    Sheila Armstrong



  17. #1177
    Join Date
    Jan. 30, 2010
    Location
    Satan's Steam Sauna
    Posts
    626

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill View Post
    So the TyeDye Equine person is buying horses from GFF? This is not surprising to anyone, is it?

    What happens when two volatile COTH threads collide?
    Just read the Karlin Eckberg / Tye Dye Equines / Allie Helinski / Sport Horses R Us thread
    http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=362754

    I sure do hope that the criminal investigators decide to take the "MAKE AN EXAMPLE" approach w/ Jill Burnell Gray Fox Farms; so that people think twice and decide it's just not worth the punishment risk to scam people.

    These train wrecks really do hurt the industry. Thank God for the internet, because even though these shenanigans went on for far, far, too long. Without the internet -- probably would have gone on forever.
    Disclaimer: Just a beginner who knows nothing about nothing



  18. #1178
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2012
    Posts
    147

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheila A View Post
    The owner of this one posted on Jill's facebook page the other day looking for papers :-/

    Looks like she is in Colorado.
    I think this is her... http://www.winterhavenfarms.net/index.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehzebra View Post
    http://www.grayfoxfarms.com/rioja.htm

    does anyone have any infor on this foal bred by gff? maybe its just me but it looks not too great.......
    See link above. The colt looks fine at his new home. It's pretty normal for a very young foal to show a few ribs but they plump up quickly.

    The picture of Federalist has now been deleted off Facebook.



  19. #1179
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2012
    Posts
    24

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    I spoke with a friend who has seen Redwine and Aloha in person, she said that Aloha barely comes close to 16hh, he looks like a pony. And Redwine is also shorter than what she advertises them as.
    Curious to see where all the full grown offspring out there finish off in height.

    Also know another girl in Montana that purchased a foal from JB, the foal arrived half dead, spent a month in the clinic and had a 10k vet bill!



  20. #1180
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2012
    Location
    In a far far away place....
    Posts
    712

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    Just to chime in for the stallions sake, I too have been close enough to pet these stallions, and have seen Aloha almost daily in passing. They both seem near or around 16 to 16.1 hands. RW is a bit taller than Aloha. The only thing "ponyish" is his face. A friend has an Aloha filly that just turned 3 and she is easily 15.2 right now. It also depends on the size of the mare. Now back to your regularly scheduled bashing....



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