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  1. #1101
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    Aug. 20, 2012
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    62

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    Rate My Pro, completely understood! Which is why I suggested a site like yours in the beginning.



  2. #1102
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
    Posts
    432

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    I agree with Diane the IRS could possibly have a field day with JB. That could be where there are some teeth to deal with the group situation described here. There could be a ton of unreported stud fees, sales, deposits that were given up on, and everything else. JB has over 3k FB friends, if only a fraction are sending these stud fees to her, the money has to be insane.

    Although industry experts have a clue what is up with JB's business practices, I assure you most people are not that informed, and trust that all is on the up and up. Her marketing reach has even made it to a horseshow mother that I know who would never spend the money or time to check things out in CA. Many newbies, novices, and just ordinary people are easily sucked in by the glamour of the claims on the website and FB.



  3. #1103
    Join Date
    Feb. 15, 2004
    Location
    Ontario
    Posts
    8,755

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill View Post

    I did like DianneHalpin's post, however, which clearly stated that the people who are likely to do business with her are well aware of the problems. I think what has come to light here is more information about a fairly cavalier attitude concerning the EVA situation, the type of facility where the horses were housed on a daily basis, and a reason for all those lost and late papers.

    It's really a shame. Yes, there are plenty of people to do business with that have integrity and nice stallions, but the stallions at GFF are also nice and don't deserve all the drama that surrounds them.
    All you have to do is scan the Black Dot thread to realize that very few have posted they bred to Redwine this year!! that does tell you that people on this board are very aware of the situation. Still, some unsuspecting MO may hopefully do a google search and come across this information. It is still worth putting out there!



  4. #1104

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    Good points, Renascence. As we all know, many "teflon" criminals have been caught by the IRS -- you can get away with a lot of things, but not paying your taxes is not one of them.

    The IRS can freeze all your accounts without notice, and walk in your home and take anything they want if they think you owe money. You can argue, but until they decide, you are dead in the water.



  5. #1105

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    Quote Originally Posted by dianehalpin View Post
    Only a fool or someone naive would enter into business with her and I can tell readers of this thread from my own experience that the leading breeders, trainers, and owners in the United States and Canada already know that she is engaged in fraud. It's been discussed ad nauseum in my presence at the major warmblood breed conventions this year and among members of our national committees, many of whom are owed money by her.
    So is there nothing the breed registries can do -- if such a situation occurs, shouldn't they have a list of suspended people, or people that are blacklisted or something?

    If all the pros know about this, why can't they let the unsuspecting mare owners know about it?



  6. #1106
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2010
    Location
    Satan's Steam Sauna
    Posts
    626

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill View Post
    "He said she said" is always problematic -- with evidence, paperwork, contracts, and even a police report, the case is much easier to make. Those photos are a lot more compelling than just stating her lab was a mess.

    The google earth pics tell the story, as does all the documentation of all the missing paperwork people are trying to get.

    I did like DianneHalpin's post, however, which clearly stated that the people who are likely to do business with her are well aware of the problems. I think what has come to light here is more information about a fairly cavalier attitude concerning the EVA situation, the type of facility where the horses were housed on a daily basis, and a reason for all those lost and late papers.

    It's really a shame. Yes, there are plenty of people to do business with that have integrity and nice stallions, but the stallions at GFF are also nice and don't deserve all the drama that surrounds them.
    What will happen if everyone gets scared, deletes their posts - including posts that are not illegal in any way?

    What will happen if victims are intimidated by the threats of the possibility of being sued whether justified or not; because they don't have the financial resources to spend on attorney's fees either to defend themselves against frivolous lawsuits or to pursue civil litigation against the person that victimized them?

    What will happen if everybody just watches silently and posts crying "smilies"; which may or may not be legally protected (?) every time some poor soul steps forward with another sad story which comes as no surprise to many -- except the latest victim?

    It makes me completely nauseated, sad, and angry that the - in my opinion - root of pure evil Westboro Baptist Church folks get to do all that they do AND make money from suing people; while honest and caring people with good intentions trying to do the right thing and trying to prevent others from being harmed are threatened, intimidated and harassed.

    Personally, I think that if you do bad things; you should be called out for it publicly and held accountable. In my opinion the Court of Public Opinion has some value when the resources required to get to the Court of Law are beyond the reach of many.

    Just my opinions and thoughts; and I am not an expert authority on anything.



  7. #1107
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    277

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill View Post
    So is there nothing the breed registries can do -- if such a situation occurs, shouldn't they have a list of suspended people, or people that are blacklisted or something?

    If all the pros know about this, why can't they let the unsuspecting mare owners know about it?
    I can't answer for the registries but I suspect if you call them and ask specific questions, they would be truthful. Both GOV and AHS reps have stepped forward stating there are unpaid bills/bounced checks.

    How would you go about letting every unsuspecting mare owner know about JB? I think those posting here have attempted to make it known but if there are other ways, please share. I'm sure the "victims" will gladly share their experience(s).



  8. #1108

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    I don't have an answer ... this thread is helpful, I certainly know about the problems with GFF now, since I believe the majority of the victims, and none of the apologists.

    One person complaining can be written off as sour grapes, a whole lot of them from all over the country is another thing all together.

    It just bothered me that apparently many people in positions of authority and influence in the registries knew all about this, and discussed it "ad nauseum" at breed functions, but despite that, nothing at all could be done to protect mare owners and buyers.



  9. #1109
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2001
    Location
    New Hampshire/Florida
    Posts
    2,396

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    As far as I have seen, Jill has been able to only intimidate one person thus far: a 18 or 19-year-old girl on the horse grooming web site. I haven't seen anyone else apologize or "redact" (is that the correct word?) publicly, which, I think, is Jill's purpose for her PMs.



  10. #1110
    Join Date
    Aug. 15, 2008
    Posts
    4,641

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    Quote Originally Posted by ldaziens View Post
    What will happen if everyone gets scared, deletes their posts - including posts that are not illegal in any way?

    What will happen if victims are intimidated by the threats of the possibility of being sued whether justified or not; because they don't have the financial resources to spend on attorney's fees either to defend themselves against frivolous lawsuits or to pursue civil litigation against the person that victimized them?
    I am not a lawyer, so not legal advice in any way.

    But what is well known is that truth is an absolute defense, so as long as people are (bravely!) posting their true experiences, they should have nothing to worry about.

    I also think the idea that EquineDriver is speer heading is a brilliant and genuine one to circumvent the cost and intimidation factor often associated with "doing the right thing".

    There is enough public information that is PROVEN about the type of business ethics that Jill Burnell has been using, that general discussion about that shouldn't be an issue.

    I have NO dog in this fight, but wanted to say I am proud of you guys for trying to organize and make a difference in a situation that seems to have been going on for far too long.

    And thank you to the mods for cleaning up the thread so that it reflects the seriousness of the situation.
    "Aye God, Woodrow..."



  11. #1111
    Join Date
    Aug. 20, 2012
    Posts
    62

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    Interesting read and this guy appeared to have a ton of evidence against him and still won the case!!! I guess there's just certain things you can or can't say about people publicly....

    http://www.nvdaily.com/news/2012/01/...ngs-print.html



  12. #1112

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    And she still has people like eagle74 coming on this thread and defending her, and telling those who dare to speak out "you guys have been warned from the beginning!" I know a lot of people have him on ignore, but shame on him for implying that people have been fabricating things on this thread.

    Edit: Read much? He didn't win the case, and he sounds absolutely abhorrent. "The plaintiff seeks $1 million in compensatory damages and $350,000 in punitive damages." That would be SEEKS, not got.



  13. #1113
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    7,412

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    It is absolutely crazy to me that you are defending Jill in this matter as it is the pot calling the kettle black. Jill is hands down the worse person I know for using the internet social network to spread rumors and untruths to hurt other people and/or their businesses. I do have proof that she has done this to our business as well as several others. Check out this thread - http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=240534 - and look at the posts by posters that were banned from posting. Guess why they were banned ...

    On another forum, she tried to spread the rumor that we were lying about Apiro having fractured his hock and that we were hiding the fact that he had a disease called DSLD. I had never heard of it before, so had to look it up! http://dsldequine.info In response, I posted the radiologists report and I invite anyone who questions our honesty to come see Apiro any time.

    She has contacted our clients as well as potential clients in an attempt to try to perpetuate the above rumors.

    Jill has also copied and used items off our website word for word, such as our breeding discounts. I could go on and on ...


    Quote Originally Posted by eagle74 View Post
    "You may also find this article to be a great refresher on defamation! This case was in Virginia, so keep that in mind.

    www.ratemyhorsepro.com/equine-court/legal-articles/horse-breeder-sued-for-defamatory-facebook-postings-loses.aspx"]Horse Breeder Sued for Defamatory FB Postings, Loses
    The case was recently decided."

    It wasn't like you guys haven't been warned from the beginning!!!!

    If interested, here's the CA law, of which, this paragraph pretty much sums it up:

    "As a matter of law, in cases involving public figures or matters of public concern, the burden is on the plaintiff to prove falsity in a defamation action. Nizam-Aldine v. City of Oakland, 47 Cal. App. 4th 364 (Cal. Ct. App. 1996). In cases involving matters of purely private concern, the burden of proving truth is on the defendant. Smith v. Maldonado, 72 Cal.App.4th 637, 646 & n.5 (Cal. Ct. App. 1999). A reader further points out that, even when the burden is technically on the plaintiff to prove falsity, the plaintiff can easily shift the burden to the defendant simply by testifying that the statements at issue are false."

    http://www.citmedialaw.org/legal-gui...defamation-law
    Silver Creek Farms - home of Apiro & Validation
    Visit us on facebook!



  14. #1114

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    By the way, GFF supporters ... if there really are any ... eagle74 is not your new BFF, because by continuing to post and stir the pot on this thread, he keeps it right at the top of this forum. So go right ahead.



  15. #1115
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2012
    Location
    North Texas
    Posts
    588

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    EVA question here....

    are there any requirements that her other horses, studs in particular, need to be tested so often since she has an EVA positive stud on the premises, very likely within respiratory spreading rate (amung other unkempt practices...)
    what are the chances that her other stallions at stud could be shedders of EVA?
    Clancy 17hh chestnut Dutch WB, '99. Owned and loved since '04 and still goin'!



  16. #1116
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2003
    Location
    Best of golf and equines, NC
    Posts
    5,369

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    Quote Originally Posted by showjumpers66 View Post
    It is absolutely crazy to me that you are defending Jill in this matter as it is the pot calling the kettle black. Jill is hands down the worse person I know for using the internet social network to spread rumors and untruths to hurt other people and/or their businesses. I do have proof that she has done this to our business as well as several others. Check out this thread - http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh...d.php?t=240534 - and look at the posts by posters that were banned from posting. Guess why they were banned ...

    On another forum, she tried to spread the rumor that we were lying about Apiro having fractured his hock and that we were hiding the fact that he had a disease called DSLD. I had never heard of it before, so had to look it up! http://dsldequine.info In response, I posted the radiologists report and I invite anyone who questions our honesty to come see Apiro any time.

    She has contacted our clients as well as potential clients in an attempt to try to perpetuate the above rumors.

    Jill has also copied and used items off our website word for word, such as our breeding discounts. I could go on and on ...
    Don’t give legal advice, am not an attorney, don’t play one on T.V. … and I didn’t read enough about Perry’s case to understand the specific nature of her defamatory comments and how they related to what was true about the plaintiff, but I would think that would be important to do before citing any case as precedent for what might happen to posters on this thread.

    There are all sorts of cases that could be of value to plaintiffs and defendants alike. I worked for an attorney who was very publicly defamed, both libel and slander (i.e. in a speech before a large group of people, and in a magazine article). The comments were unequivocally false, they were communicated to a third party (thousands actually) and they were defamation per se (defamatory on their face).

    The attorney sued for defamation.

    The defendants conceded the defamation. In part of his pleading my boss mentioned that he was well known across the country… and that he had offered his expert advice from time to time on topics related to a specific hobby/sport.

    When all was said and done, the court found that he was “a public figure” and therefore he had to prove that the defendants were acting with malice (which is essentially a state of mind). He could not prove the state of mind of the defendants and the case was dismissed. Each side was responsible for their own legal fees (hundreds of thousands of dollars). The defendants would almost have to have admited that they acted out of malice for my boss to have won his case. Oddly enough, they were unwilling to do so. Go figure.

    The famous case that set this precedent was New York Times v Sullivan.

    Over the years we (Arthur and I) have been the victims of defamatory statements made here on COTH about us. These statements have been false, defamatory per se, and without question they have hurt the value of our business (i.e. we have damages). I suppose we could have sued, but it seems to me that a whole lot of posters here (including us) are - by and through their own actions - public figures. We all are... or claim to be experts on the subject matters we post about, and many of us post thousands of times (across various forums). I am pretty sure that regardless of who sued, if they have posted on this COTH breeding forum more than 100 times, it is likely that at some point they have defined themselves as "public figures" whether they intended to or not. For example, standing high profile stallions and giving breeding reccomendations, and/or giving advice on any forum (any where) about EVA, (even if you are dead wrong and arguably hurting others) would qualify.

    Just a thought.

    As for plopping down $70 and filing against someone, it's true that anyone can sue, regardless of what is true and the merit of the claims. My feeling about being sued is this: I sort of favor this approach. "I am a peaceful person… if you leave me alone, I will likely do the same. However, if you come at me with a stick, I’m going come back at you with an axe, preferably between the eyes. Your first shot had better be a clean kill, because I will return fire. And win loose or draw, you will spent hundreds of thousands and be in court for years and years and years. That's just the kind of person I am."


    Seems to me that a lot of people would step up if they felt there was some injustice done, based upon this thread.

    And, for what it’s worth, based upon what I’ve read on this thread, Apiro’s owner may have a cause of action, and anyone holding an NSF check has a cause of action, but beyond that I haven’t seen much that is actionable. I certainly haven’t seen malice, quite the opposite really.
    Last edited by Cartier; Aug. 24, 2012 at 07:13 PM.



  17. #1117
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2011
    Posts
    1,116

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    I usually just lurk in threads like this but i just can't. Dead babies, so many people scammed... shame on her!!

    As one person recently said, it would be a good idea to gather up the "SOLD"' monetary value of any foals from her previous years crop..... screenshot those pages before they go away. Does anyone have PDF writer so they can save the pages? I don't anymore.

    From the nursery page.... 18 foals "sold" in 2011 with the remaining 7 not a single one listed for under 12k. If she negotiated and actually "sold" all of those foals for an average price of 7k that would be 126k of REPORTABLE income from this alone.

    Extrapolate her shipped semen income via the foals currently on the ground and showing... that are not these foals... well you get the drift.

    It would be VERY WISE to send this information to the IRS. Someone with her laissez faire attitude about keeping animals alive (EG: dead bathtub chickens, multiple foals dead under a single blanket), the rest of her house in tatters, the MULTIPLE and ongoing attempts to square up paperwork. There is no way (NO. WAY.) this person did the right thing by taxes and reporting income. And this is probably the quickest way to crumble her castle.

    It is hard to get the government to do the right thing when the rest of us are stolen from, or if animals are abused. But if you do it wrong on April 15th only god (or not even him) can help you.



  18. #1118
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2003
    Location
    Eastern Pacific coast
    Posts
    3,866

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    I won all three [lawsuits] and did not collect a single penny for any of them. In my case it was worth it anyway because the racing commission will ban anyone with a judgement against them that is unsettled so at least I got them off the race track.
    How unfortunate that USEF has not given itself the authority to do the same for its members.
    -Amor vincit omnia-



  19. #1119
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Out for Lent
    Posts
    34,472

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tehzebra View Post
    EVA question here....

    are there any requirements that her other horses, studs in particular, need to be tested so often since she has an EVA positive stud on the premises, very likely within respiratory spreading rate (amung other unkempt practices...)
    what are the chances that her other stallions at stud could be shedders of EVA?
    From what I read I as non vet would assume that the whole lot is positive.
    I found an interesting article I posted in the facts thread....
    http://www.wvagriculture.org/images/...eritis-EVA.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by Bristol Bay View Post
    Try setting your broomstick to fly at a lower altitude.
    GNU Terry Prachett



  20. #1120
    Join Date
    Sep. 29, 2003
    Posts
    342

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    Quote Originally Posted by Manahmanah View Post
    As one person recently said, it would be a good idea to gather up the "SOLD"' monetary value of any foals from her previous years crop..... screenshot those pages before they go away. Does anyone have PDF writer so they can save the pages? I don't anymore.

    From the nursery page.... 18 foals "sold" in 2011 with the remaining 7 not a single one listed for under 12k. If she negotiated and actually "sold" all of those foals for an average price of 7k that would be 126k of REPORTABLE income from this alone.

    Extrapolate her shipped semen income via the foals currently on the ground and showing... that are not these foals... well you get the drift.

    It would be VERY WISE to send this information to the IRS. Someone with her laissez faire attitude about keeping animals alive (EG: dead bathtub chickens, multiple foals dead under a single blanket), the rest of her house in tatters, the MULTIPLE and ongoing attempts to square up paperwork. There is no way (NO. WAY.) this person did the right thing by taxes and reporting income. And this is probably the quickest way to crumble her castle.

    It is hard to get the government to do the right thing when the rest of us are stolen from, or if animals are abused. But if you do it wrong on April 15th only god (or not even him) can help you.
    If someone out there reading this has some kind of proof of tax fraud--not speculation, but actual proof--the IRS has a form for reporting that information here, along with the kind of information they want. However, bear in mind that a lot of the GFF profits probably fall under the umbrella of her business, which would also allow her deduct a lot of expenses, so there may not really be as much "profit" to report as you'd think after all is said and done.



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