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  1. #861
    Join Date
    Jun. 8, 2010
    Posts
    331

    Default

    Donatella,

    absolutely there is a risk regardless of which semen you use. If the semen is handled in that 'lab', next to EVA positive samples, dirt, grime and disorganization, there is risk for a whole host of things to go wrong. I for one would never shoot anything into my mare that was concocted in conditions like what was in the photographs.



  2. #862
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,958

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle74 View Post
    I'm not defending Jill in her business practices because I have none with her. But what I am defending is the unsubstantiated claims ( other than the judgement listed ) that haven't been proffered up and I'm not willing to believe in heresay!
    For someone who keeps being adamant about not knowing Jill, not being a horse person, just going to Jill's with a friend and not defending her....46 posts later, here you are! I can't think of a non-horsey man in their right mind that would post 5 times on this thread let alone 46. Wouldn't your efforts be more productive on a board or forum defending, say, innocent victims of pedophiles, innocent victims of sexual abuse or serial killers? Since you're a football coach and at least have some knowledge in the area of sports and coaching, why not help support and defend all of the kids out there who have been sexually abused by their sports coach. Wouldn't that serve a much better purpose than this?

    Seriously, this is the cause you decided to put all of your efforts into? Even I admit it's starting to smell in here. I cry bulls#$t on the, "I'm just a guy that followed a friend to a farm." If not, and this last statement is true, man, you got way to much time on your hands.
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Oldenburg & RPSI approved pony stallions Daventry's Power Play & Goldhills Brandysnap
    Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals www.EquineAppraisers.com



  3. #863
    Join Date
    Dec. 18, 2006
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    8,608

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayside View Post
    I don't think I'd even feel comfortable prepping slides for a fecal flotation in that environment, nevermind semen or dinner
    Best line in this whole thread!



  4. #864
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
    Posts
    10,873

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    Quote Originally Posted by COTHalter44 View Post
    Cancelled the night before. I am sure none of the foals will be registered this year.
    Does anyone know how many Aloha, Redwine, or Romantic Star foals have been registered with ISR/ONA in the past couple of years? I believe ISR publishes that info in its stallion guide.

    Quote Originally Posted by COTHalter44 View Post
    Sorry but the house does not even top the THREE dead foals laying under a horse blanket outside her barn last year (2011) in the sun until she could dispose of them. A horrible image I will never get out of my head.
    Unbelievable. No, on second thought, totally believable.

    One can't help but wonder what they died from. And how old they were. And if these foals had been promised to buyers. And what percentage it was of her foal crop for that year. Pretty weird, isn't it, to have several foals die at the same time? Gee, I wonder if they contracted respiratory EVA from being exposed to their dams vaginal secretions after they were inseminated with Redwine semen...

    For that matter, given her disregard for pretty much everything in her life except scamming buyers and taking people's money, I wonder if there is even anyone present when the mares foal, or if there is any follow-up care to mare or foal (like disinfecting navel stumps, making sure the mare passes all placenta, etc.).



  5. #865
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2012
    Location
    Carleton Place, Canada
    Posts
    8

    Default Jill"s stiffing people....

    Even if people were stiffing Jill she has the means to control her business. She can change her policies on when and how her shipments are paid. You don't start ripping people off because others have done it to you. Wake up!!! If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....it's a duck. PERIOD!!



  6. #866
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    22,269

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kwill View Post
    The lab is very relevant to the scamming, in my mind. The unsanitary conditions could have and probably are directly contributing to uterine infections, poor semen quality, and the spread of the EVA virus. Her lack of organization results in lost papers, delayed shipments of semen, and even some of her financial issues, most likely.

    The angry accusations of stolen cameras, out of context photos, and whining that the parents could have lived in a travel trailer and left at any time (not buying that one, I am sure there was a reason they stayed even in terrible conditions) points to a person who makes excuses and is self-centered.

    So all of this evidence does relate to the fact that despite having a marvelous group of stallions (and their offspring), GFF has some serious issues that need to be addressed for the good of the horse community.
    It's really not. There are so many insanely great reasons NOT to do business with Jill Burnell and Gray Fox Farm that everyone should be long gone before what goes on in the lab becomes an issue. If the lab was on par with the National Institute of Health in terms of cleanliness, no one should be doing business with her due to her unethical business practices so the fact that it is not is irrelevant.

    It's like not letting your son spend the night at Jerry Sandusky's house now that his abuse is out in the open because he doesn't ever mow his lawn.



  7. #867
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
    Location
    rapidan,virginia
    Posts
    2,149

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daventry View Post
    For someone who keeps being adamant about not knowing Jill, not being a horse person, just going to Jill's with a friend and not defending her....46 posts later, here you are! I can't think of a non-horsey man in their right mind that would post 5 times on this thread let alone 46.
    SNIP

    Seriously, this is the cause you decided to put all of your efforts into? Even I admit it's starting to smell in here. I cry bulls#$t on the, "I'm just a guy that followed a friend to a farm." If not, and this last statement is true, man, you got way to much time on your hands.
    And don't forget that Mike is so invested in this cause that he posted his own phone number and invited people to call him to discuss this matter. It's truly bizarre.
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    Rainy
    Stash



  8. #868
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2003
    Location
    Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    843

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by COTHalter44 View Post
    Cancelled the night before. I am sure none of the foals will be registered this year.

    Sorry but the house does not even top the THREE dead foals laying under a horse blanket outside her barn last year (2011) in the sun until she could dispose of them. A horrible image I will never get out of my head.
    THREE?

    ALL horses she ever stabled should be quarantined and sero tested.
    Anybody know of a tip line # for Animal Planet?



  9. #869
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
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    rapidan,virginia
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    2,149

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle74 View Post
    Finally someone states the mission statement! Remember though how this all started, Her house, her lab, her parents......Nothing about scamming in post 1!
    "You men" have a hard time understanding that in a discussion (remember this is a discussion forum), mission creep is perfectly understandable and acceptable. Such is the nature of discussion.

    Or here's a manly analogy: my agency recently served a search warrant with the purpose of uncovering an illegal operation of marijuana manufacture. During the investigation, it was discovered that the suspect also had thousands of images and videos containing child pornography. Guess where the focus of the prosecution is now? While we are still pursuing the drug charges, the pornography is more egregious and much more critical to our mission.
    "Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?" Sun Tzu, The Art of War
    Rainy
    Stash



  10. #870
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
    Location
    SE WI- Midwest
    Posts
    3,558

    Default

    And another one on Facebook, looking for papers on a purchase. Sad.

    Pxxx Bxxx Wxxx (Name removed for privacy)
    Still need papers on Rioja ... Please let me know what I need to do to get this done!!



  11. #871
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2012
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Originally Posted by COTHalter44
    Cancelled the night before. I am sure none of the foals will be registered this year.

    Sorry but the house does not even top the THREE dead foals laying under a horse blanket outside her barn last year (2011) in the sun until she could dispose of them. A horrible image I will never get out of my head.


    I am extremely disturb by this. Who would leave three dead foals lying around? I doubt she even cared to have a necropsy done on them too. Not sure what the rate off death would be in a "large" breeding operation, but three foals sounds like a lot, especially if you are advertising yourself as an "experienced" breeder. And then have someone come to your farm and look at potentially buying a foal, " Oh don't mind the 3 dead foals lying over there, no worries, we take good care of our horses."
    JB can go to hell in a hand basket for all I care.



  12. #872
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2000
    Location
    SE WI- Midwest
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    3,558

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    Quote Originally Posted by DownYonder View Post
    Does anyone know how many Aloha, Redwine, or Romantic Star foals have been registered with ISR/ONA in the past couple of years? I believe ISR publishes that info in its stallion guide.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by COTHalter44 View Post
    Sorry but the house does not even top the THREE dead foals laying under a horse blanket outside her barn last year (2011) in the sun until she could dispose of them. A horrible image I will never get out of my head.


    Unbelievable. No, on second thought, totally believable.

    One can't help but wonder what they died from. And how old they were. And if these foals had been promised to buyers. And what percentage it was of her foal crop for that year. Pretty weird, isn't it, to have several foals die at the same time? Gee, I wonder if they contracted respiratory EVA from being exposed to their dams vaginal secretions after they were inseminated with Redwine semen...

    For that matter, given her disregard for pretty much everything in her life except scamming buyers and taking people's money, I wonder if there is even anyone present when the mares foal, or if there is any follow-up care to mare or foal (like disinfecting navel stumps, making sure the mare passes all placenta, etc.).
    That is really sad about the foals! Things happen, and not everyone has HUGE financial resources to seek emergency neonatal care, but I would certainly suspect that something not right is going on with regard to their care!
    And, agree with the poster above. Who would invite a potential horse buyer to see sale horses with SEVERAL deceased babies in a heap on the property? Seriously?!?!

    Foal/In Utero buyer beware and then some!



  13. #873
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2004
    Posts
    7,540

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    Quote Originally Posted by KT Farms View Post

    I am extremely disturb by this. Who would leave three dead foals lying around?
    any time a horse dies it is "left lying around under a blanket" until the rendering guy can come pick it up. Sometimes that can be a hour or a day.....

    and hopefully the dead horse/foal/whatever is under a blanket instead of just lying there.....

    so i dont find it odd to that a dead foal was "lying around under a blanket" but i cant make any comments about the number of them or how long they lay there.



  14. #874
    Join Date
    Jun. 2, 2009
    Posts
    1,258

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    1 foal dying is one thing. These things happen unfortunately. 3 foals dying at the same time? Well something is seriously amiss



  15. #875
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2003
    Location
    Wynnewood, Oklahoma
    Posts
    5,195

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle74 View Post
    Someone commented that "yes, indeed that's her lab I've been there" yet hasn't answered if she immediately left the premises due to the conditions. With a little research, this breeder has used Redwine as late as 2010, why not warn the community if you witnessed such appalling conditions? Isn't that what this whole thread is about, warning people about the alledged criminal behaviour? It's obvious this person is highly respected in the Industry, why no warnings?
    Your information is incorrect, but with the information you have posted, you are quite obviously speaking with Jill. I also see by the tone of your postings, you truly aren't interested in what is relevant, factual and pertinent. I would be MORE than happy to post the whole sordid details of our experiences with Jill Burnell, but I can assure you that it does not reflect well on Jill Burnell, Gray Fox Farm, etc. I don't think you really "are" interested in truth and facts, Mike/Eagle. Unfortunate as your original posts I agreed with. It's an emotional hot topic for many here and much of the facts were being overshadowed by that.

    For the record and to help keep the facts straight, we "did" breed to one of Gray Fox Farm's stallions in 2009. Aloha, NOT Redwine. With semen we froze. And for the record, it was our experience with Jill Burnell and Gray Fox Farm that resulted in the establishment of the Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. It truly was making lemons out of lemonade and turning something that was so disgusting and unpleasant and negative into something constructive and helpful. We try to channel negative energy into something positive and good. It's so much more productive !

    I'm more than capable of admitting that we, like many here, trusted what we were told to be factual and honest. We made a mistake and were duped like so many others. Jill comes across as likeable, knowledgeable, personable and funny - your new BFF - until she doesn't like something you do or say. Then watch out! Not everything is as one would be lead to believe - obviously. This is no witch hunt. It's just so much information about her operation and ethics and practices coming are coming to light. Unfortunate, as she truly did have the world by the tail. Nice horses. Bad business practices. You reap what you sow. I just empathize and sympathize with those that have lost so much due to how she does business.
    Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
    Leg-Up Equestrian Assistance Program, Inc. A 501(c)(3) non-profit charity



  16. #876
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    19,858

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    so i dont find it odd to that a dead foal was "lying around under a blanket" but i cant make any comments about the number of them or how long they lay there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cloverbarley View Post
    1 foal dying is one thing. These things happen unfortunately. 3 foals dying at the same time? Well something is seriously amiss
    Right. Options here are either:

    a) Three foals all died within hours of each other and the dead truck was on the way

    or

    b) Three foals died within DAYS of each other and Jill had not bothered to call the dead truck for the first or the second (and perhaps not yet for the third) and was instead just trying to hide the dead foals under a blanket


    Both options are grim.



  17. #877
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2012
    Location
    Carleton Place, Canada
    Posts
    8

    Default Roy Parker/Eagle74

    Eagle74/Roy Parker I've been involved with a few people who have stuck there nose where it didn't belong and let me tell you it came back and slapped them in the face. People like Jill are not particular and quranteed you will be apologizing to someone in the end. You might be pleased with yourselves right now but ultimately you will in some shape or form feel the sting of Jill Burnell. It amazes me that you find it acceptable for this women to take money from people and in return give nothing. A few satisfied customers means nothing, luck was on their side. She may have been honest at the beginning when she was starting out, but when desperation sets in anything goes...survival of the fittest.



  18. #878
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2003
    Location
    Eastern Pacific coast
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    4,249

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donatella View Post
    Sorry if this was already answered: do JB's lab conditions mean breeding to any of her stallions might be an EVA risk, not just Redwine?
    Please see page 31, post #603 from Equine Reproduction.
    It's an excellent post, and addresses this very serious concern among breeders.
    -Amor vincit omnia-



  19. #879
    Join Date
    Mar. 14, 2004
    Location
    Left coast, left wing, left field
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    7,634

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    It's like not letting your son spend the night at Jerry Sandusky's house now that his abuse is out in the open because he doesn't ever mow his lawn.
    I think it's more like not letting your son spend the night at Jerry Sandusky's house because he doesn't wash his penis. One can get screwed in so many ways, no one way less or more relevant than the next.
    Arrange whatever pieces come your way. - Virginia Woolf

    Did you know that if you say the word "GULLIBLE" really softly, it sounds like "ORANGES"?



  20. #880
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2012
    Location
    Carleton Place, Canada
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    8

    Default

    Simkie ......or foals were dying and she couldn't afford to pay the dead stock truck.....or they wouldn't come because she already owes them too much without payment!!!!



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