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  1. #501
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2003
    Location
    Wynnewood, Oklahoma
    Posts
    5,195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ynl063w View Post
    Does anyone who processes semen do so in a truly sterile environment? I'm asking this because I'm having a hard time figuring out how anyone can COLLECT semen in a sterile environment. Sterile technique is completely useless unless you are starting with truly sterile product. And keeping up a truly sterile environment is time consuming and expensive, and therefore a total waste of time, effort, and money if you are going to bring a non-sterile product into your sterile environment.
    No...collecting semen isn't a "sterile" process. Horses are NOT known for their personal hygiene. With that said, semen "is" sterile, so you do EVERYTHING possible to attempt to maintain that. Probably more appropriate terminology would be aseptic technique. You wash the penis in order to avoid debris and surface pathogens getting into the AV and the ejaculate. You have a filter in place to avoid any dirt or smegma that you didn't wash off from getting into the collection. You use sterile equipment for everything, including centrifuge tubes, etc. Even doing surgery is not 100% sterile. You do EVERYTHING possible to avoid introducing any pathogens or contaminants. Dirt and debris lying around, dirty counters, garbage not thrown out, perishable items not removed from the area, etc., is not conducive to even an aseptic environment.

    Having said that, I get that the pictures are horrifying, and I assume that most stallion owners (as in all but the subject stallion owner, I hope) don't process semen in the conditions pictured here. But I'm guessing that the word "sterile" is being thrown around here inappropriately.
    Yes and no. All that debris, dirt, dust, etc., creates the very real possibility of introducing pathogens to the ejaculate. If she's not processing the semen correctly, you as a mare owner, stand the very real possibility of introducing those pathogens to your mare. Let's look at it this way. Would you prepare dinner in that environment? If not, why not? And if you're comfortable preparing it in that type of environment, please don't invite me over for dinner .
    Equine-Reproduction.com Now offering one on one customized training!
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  2. #502
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2012
    Posts
    5

    Default Jill's Horses Are Not Abused, Underfed, or Neglected

    I spoke to Jill's brother yesterday and he confirmed that all of her horses have been moved to the new property. There aren't any man made shelters there yet, but he did confirm that it's 40 acres of pasture. I purchased a colt from Jill in 2008 and had a good experience; she returned my calls promptly, the colt arrived in good weight after a trip across coasts, and I was very happy with him.

    Since then, I discovered one of these threads and honestly thought it was a bunch of dramatic, jealous horse people. I've competed on the A circuit in the hunters for over 25 years and know that horse people can be a crazy bunch that tend to not have a life in the 'real world'. BUT, I do now believe that many people have been wronged by Jill as no other breeder has consistently been bashed on here and there are just too many similar stories for it all to be a fabrication.

    Now, why did I speak to her brother? I purchased a filly from her this year BEFORE I realized the severity of the shady activity and reached out to the SIL over PM with my number. Her brother, Craig Fury, called me last night and he is obviously upset with Jill for many reasons, but he did confirm that the horses are not under weight or abused and they have been moved to 40 acres of pasture. My Redwine colt was one of the nicest horses I've ever seen and is now successfully showing in the baby greens and winning with his new owner. So, I wanted to purchase another young horse bred by Redwine and the nicest one I found belonged to Jill. At this point, my biggest concern is the health of my filly under Jill's care until I ship her to the east coast in a few months.

    Due to this concern, I also spoke to Jill's vet, Dr. Steve Wood yesterday. He was unaware of anyone being upset with bad business dealings, but did admit that she is a bit disorganized. However, he said, "I would not and will not ever provide veterinary services for a breeder that neglects or abuses horses and I will stand behind that legally." So, I am not supporting Jill's code of ethics or business dealings in any way, but I have had two positive experiences with her and have had it confirmed by a vet and her brother that the horses are not being abused, neglected, or under fed.

    Again, I truly do sympathize with the individuals that have had negative experiences, but I did want to set the facts straights on the care of her horses.



  3. #503
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2008
    Posts
    328

    Default

    Alters are coming out of the woodwork, I can't keep up.
    "I don't know what your generation's fascination is with documenting your every thought... but I can assure you, they're not all diamonds." Mr. G



  4. #504
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2006
    Posts
    1,911

    Default

    The issue is that it is a matter of time until they are neglected, it is inevitable IMO. She is burning the candle at both ends here (and look at her home) and owes money to her vet and feed store. Eventually where will she get her feed? She has so many horses that if she encounters a situation where she cannot rob Peter to pay Paul, she will hit rock bottom immediately. I don't think anyone is saying her horses are dieing out there, they are not. And if minimum standards of care are met (maybe not mine, but legally) I am the last to claim neglect.

    But her having judgements and warrants and not submitting breeding certificates is not a work of fiction, it is fact. Her house of cards will crumble at some point and the animals will inevitably suffer. Yet instead of fixing her situation, she purchases more mares etc.

    As far as leading the Hunter Breeding rankings... the woman who embezzled all that $$$ from that town (Rita Cromwell?) was a leading owner for AQHA.... does that automatically mean they are ethical people? No.



  5. #505
    Join Date
    Jul. 9, 2011
    Posts
    66

    Default

    Seriously cheek? After all this you still are going to say that anyone with a positive experience is an alter?



  6. #506
    Join Date
    Jul. 9, 2011
    Posts
    66

    Default

    And tango does it really sound like her vet has a problem with her. Facts stick to facts. A couple have.



  7. #507
    Join Date
    Nov. 28, 2003
    Location
    MO
    Posts
    4,574

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by magicteetango View Post
    As far as leading the Hunter Breeding rankings... the woman who embezzled all that $$$ from that town (Rita Cromwell?) was a leading owner for AQHA.... does that automatically mean they are ethical people? No.
    Rita Crundwell. And that is a fascinating story; she kept it up for decades...
    Courage is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm."
    --Winston Churchill
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Hills...h/112931293227
    www.HillsideHRanch.com



  8. #508
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2006
    Posts
    1,911

    Default

    Roy, I doubt the vet she owes $$$ to is her current vet. Think on it, I am sure Petaluma has a few vets...



  9. #509
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2008
    Posts
    328

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RoyParker View Post
    Seriously cheek? After all this you still are going to say that anyone with a positive experience is an alter?

    Newbies popping up for the first time in full support, something stinks & I don't think it's just the turds.

    ,



  10. #510
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,585

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hillside H Ranch View Post
    Rita Crundwell. And that is a fascinating story; she kept it up for decades...
    An incredible story it was indeed!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Crundwell
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Welsh Pony, ISR/Oldenburg & RPSI pony stallions Daventry's Power Play, Goldhills Brandysnap LOM & Alvesta Picasso
    Also home to www.EquineAppraisers.com



  11. #511
    Join Date
    Jul. 9, 2011
    Posts
    66

    Default

    More like people that believe in the truth and nothing but Cheek. Lies only make legit stories less credible.



  12. #512
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2011
    Posts
    36

    Default omg that was too funny

    Quote Originally Posted by runwayz View Post
    Hell, when I move my things go in boxes and I always make sure and bubble wrap my dog feces so it don't get broke.




  13. #513
    Join Date
    Jan. 9, 2003
    Posts
    1,274

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Equine Reproduction View Post
    No...collecting semen isn't a "sterile" process. Horses are NOT known for their personal hygiene. With that said, semen "is" sterile, so you do EVERYTHING possible to attempt to maintain that. Probably more appropriate terminology would be aseptic technique. You wash the penis in order to avoid debris and surface pathogens getting into the AV and the ejaculate. You have a filter in place to avoid any dirt or smegma that you didn't wash off from getting into the collection. You use sterile equipment for everything, including centrifuge tubes, etc. Even doing surgery is not 100% sterile. You do EVERYTHING possible to avoid introducing any pathogens or contaminants. Dirt and debris lying around, dirty counters, garbage not thrown out, perishable items not removed from the area, etc., is not conducive to even an aseptic environment.



    Yes and no. All that debris, dirt, dust, etc., creates the very real possibility of introducing pathogens to the ejaculate. If she's not processing the semen correctly, you as a mare owner, stand the very real possibility of introducing those pathogens to your mare. Let's look at it this way. Would you prepare dinner in that environment? If not, why not? And if you're comfortable preparing it in that type of environment, please don't invite me over for dinner .
    Semen might be sterile, but once it hits the non-sterile equipment that is used to collect it, it is no longer sterile. I worked at a breeding farm 20 years ago, so I am familiar with the practices involved in semen collection (at that time), which is why I asked my questions the way I did. I also work in a truly sterile environment today (vaccines, which are subject to the most stringent controls of all pharmaceuticals); this is why I believe the term "sterile" is being thrown around incorrectly here.

    Even if your equipment is sterilized prior to collection, as soon as you unwrap it at the (non-sterile) location in which you perform your collections, it becomes non-sterile. You just wasted whatever money you spent sterilizing your equipment (if you in fact did that).

    Filtration can't get rid of all contaminants (ask me how I know), and even if you are carrying out that filtration in a sterile environment (which I doubt), you are again wasting time and money. Your filter is also non-sterile.

    I'm not trying to start an argument, but I maintain my position that there is nothing STERILE about semen collection, processing, shipping, and use. And there is clearly nothing wrong with that, which is evident in the fact that probably billions of mares have foaled successfully since the practice started. Obviously keeping the areas used for processing semen as clean as possible (i.e. no dog feces or dead chickens) is hugely important, but clearly nothing in the process is truly sterile.

    Comparing semen collection to surgery is like comparing apples to styrofoam. No offense intended, because I respect that you know semen collection and processing, but it's just not sterile by the true definition of the word.



  14. #514
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2012
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Just because I don't post on the COTH often, doesn't mean I'm not a real person with a factual story. The very reason I don't post here is because all of you seem a bit crazy, and quite frankly, I have a real job and a real life. But, I did want to share my story as others have shared theirs simply to point out that Jill's horses are not being mistreated. That seems to be the thing so called 'horse people' tend to forget is that isn't it all for the love of the animal anyway? If it's all about politics, and BNT this and that, and who the handler at so and so show...then that is pretty pathetic.

    If all you hate Jill so much and have factual evidence, then sue her and shut up. And, my name is Marjorie Vizethann and I have zero affiliation with Jill or GFF other than being a satisfied customer.



  15. #515
    Join Date
    Sep. 28, 2011
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by S A McKee View Post
    This thread is great fun for sure BUT

    The fact remains that she is the USEF # 1 HB Breeder
    Redwine is the # 1 HB sire, Aloha is # 3

    # 1 HB Yearling in the US is by Aloha, # 8 by Redwine
    # 1 HB 3 yr old in the US is by Redwine, # 3 is by Redwine ( and looks to be owned by the person who started this thread )

    The rest of you are where in the rankings?

    A lot of this sounds like sour grapes. If you were all so upset then why didn't you file criminal charges against her?

    I have no dog in this fight because I don't do feed and lead. Just wanted to make that clear.
    wrong, i didn't start this thread, but i do intact own the filly in 3rd.



  16. #516
    Join Date
    Jul. 9, 2011
    Posts
    66

    Default

    Ever think of the # of people with positive experiences? Ones afraid of being slammed. Bet the ratio might really be enlightening.



  17. #517
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2009
    Posts
    549

    Default

    Alright alters or newbies, if you are going to defend grey fox farm, at least get with the times. nIlOONE is say the horses are abused. However, we've got photo proof she is a hoarder, and she has two (one is current) ARREST warrants. On paper. From a government. That's not made up either. She is a criminal, or, if you'd like a better term, scam artist. There's proof. You can't get around that.

    Please new alters/newbies/Jill burnell , defend an ISSUED warrant



  18. #518
    Join Date
    Sep. 28, 2011
    Posts
    125

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daventry View Post
    So are you saying that the brother and sister-in-law came over the night before, fed the dog a whole lot of Taco Bell, came back the next morning and squeezed the crap out of him, then choked the chickens, then grabbed the camera and snapped a bunch of photos and then stole the camera?

    Sorry, I'm just trying to get all of the facts straight.



  19. #519
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2004
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    3,983

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyGilly View Post
    Just because I don't post on the COTH often, doesn't mean I'm not a real person with a factual story. The very reason I don't post here is because all of you seem a bit crazy, and quite frankly, I have a real job and a real life. But, I did want to share my story as others have shared theirs simply to point out that Jill's horses are not being mistreated. That seems to be the thing so called 'horse people' tend to forget is that isn't it all for the love of the animal anyway? If it's all about politics, and BNT this and that, and who the handler at so and so show...then that is pretty pathetic.

    If all you hate Jill so much and have factual evidence, then sue her and shut up. And, my name is Marjorie Vizethann and I have zero affiliation with Jill or GFF other than being a satisfied customer.
    Welcome. I'm glad you shared your experience, and I hope your filly gets to you safely and in good health.

    Also, not all of us here are crazy. Or, well, some of us hide it better than others. Most of the time. I think.

    And you have to realize that JB (and many others) have a history of making alters to support themselves. So newbies are automatically looked at skeptically, however wrong that may be at times.
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  20. #520
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2012
    Posts
    5

    Default

    Okay, so she's a hoarder....who cares? And, she has a warrant for something unpaid....have you ever really considered the amount of crooks in the horse world that have done far worse that no one seems to talk about? I am not defending her for unpaid services as I would not personally conduct business in that manner, but the constant bashing does get old. How many of you even ride, or have competed on the A circuit, or have competed at the biggest shows in the country in the hunter divisions?

    All I'm saying is that this COTH forum is out of control and I think it's laughable that most of you probably can't even ride well, yet you are horse and industry experts all of the sudden...please.

    If she wronged you personally and you have factual evidence, then SUE HER. Otherwise, you could be setting yourself up for a serious defamation of character law suit, and yes, my father is an attorney, so I do know what I'm talking about.



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