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  1. #3961
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    Jan. 1, 2008
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    Breeding and foaling season is just around the corner. I'm curious how current conditions of the farm/housing is going to affect JBs ability to foal out mares and collect and ship semen. While this thread has probably gone a long ways towards informing mare owners and possible buyers to beware, it would appear that standing stallions and selling offspring are Jill's main source of income. What happens to the horses she has now when any sort of income stream dries up?

    I'm hoping that the MCHS is closely monitoring the situation. It could go from bad to worse right quick when Jill is unable to sell semen or horses. Conditions may be okay now, but the next 6 months could spell disaster.
    Fan of the Swedish Chef


    2 members found this post helpful.

  2. #3962
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2005
    Location
    Va
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    3,259

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    I also noted from the report that Dr. Ellis recommended JB contact an equine nutritionist and gave recommendations for several of the horses be fed more and separated while they eat. Also recommended blankets for those that didn't have them. Noted snotty noses, etc. I got the impression that there wasn't a single horse that she thought was in optimal condition. She merely stated their condition could improve with better care and feeding and that JB seemed amenable to her advice.

    I can only imagine the thoughts going through her head as she scored one horse after another a 3, 3 minus or a 4. And the poor stallion in the mud with nowhere dry to stand. I bet she was sick to her stomach.


    4 members found this post helpful.

  3. #3963
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    Apr. 9, 2009
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    13

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    Sorry if I missed this, but what happened to the yearling "Blaze"? In the petition, Jill states she was also served with notice that a yearling would be seized, but Blaze was not mentioned as one of the horses seized at a later date, nor is he listed in the horses inspected on the property by Dr. Ellis.

    8. On December 27, 2012, Sgt. Rogers also served me with a NOTICE OF INTENT TO
    SEIZE ANIMAL(S) for a yearling named "Blaze", a true and correct copy of which is attached
    as Exhibit B.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  4. #3964
    Join Date
    Mar. 20, 2011
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    108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Go Fish View Post
    Breeding and foaling season is just around the corner. I'm curious how current conditions of the farm/housing is going to affect JBs ability to foal out mares and collect and ship semen. While this thread has probably gone a long ways towards informing mare owners and possible buyers to beware, it would appear that standing stallions and selling offspring are Jill's main source of income. What happens to the horses she has now when any sort of income stream dries up?

    I'm hoping that the MCHS is closely monitoring the situation. It could go from bad to worse right quick when Jill is unable to sell semen or horses. Conditions may be okay now, but the next 6 months could spell disaster.
    Other than turnout sheds, she won't be able to build a barn, without going through the planning process, and getting a permit. That takes months to years, with Marin County Planning Dept. She also won't have electricity on the property, without the proper permits, either. I'd hate to think she'd be running her lab in the back of a pickup.



  5. #3965
    Join Date
    Mar. 30, 2012
    Location
    Northern California
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    1,112

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    Quote Originally Posted by sid View Post
    Re: feeding hay by the flake. A "flake" can weigh 2 lbs. or it can weigh 10 lbs.

    The number of "flakes" mean nothing. It's the poundage that matters. And whether or not each individual is getting the poundage (calories) they need...even in a herd environment. Horsekeeping 101, unless this was a "survival of the fittest" mentality, because she simply did not have enough money to feed them and pretended she could, as she pretended she had a fabulous farm with a bogus website.

    Smoke and mirrors.

    Carry on.

    This is worthy of repeating and exactly what I was thinking when I was reading the report. Here in CA I believe most of us use 'large' bales that are roughly 100-120 lbs. I feel the need to try and do the math on how many pounds she "should" be feeding, but dont have the energy to do it just yet.... I know I have done the math for my 3 horses and I feed roughly 50-60 lbs of hay a day (with 6 lbs of a complete feed on top of it). That's a lot of bales a day if I'm feeding 20 plus horses that are in foal, nursing, or are growing youngsters..... But I digress... What I also noticed was the report mentioned the piles of hay appeared fresh. Ah, we'll at least they are eating.

    I find myself going back and forth on my opinion of this vet (not that my opinion matters to anyone else but me). I can appreciate the hard position she has put herself in, she probably means well and is doing her best in an undesirable position. But, when I was reading her reports on the horses individually and giving her professional opinions for the record, how was she able to give her opinion on the two horses that were blanketed and uncatchable? I would think she would reserve her opinion in those two cases ( horses #14&15) if she was unable to properly evaluate them? What if they had blankets on for a reason? Just speculation here, of course, but with my professional name on the line here I would be very diligent and careful.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  6. #3966
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2000
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    Where am I and what am I doing in this handbasket?
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    Quote Originally Posted by stripes View Post
    All this talk about the vet that inspected the horses that were not seized, what about the vet that gave Romantic Star his health certificate??? That's the vet that deserves to get raked over the coals. JMHO..
    Seriously??

    Because that vet came out EIGHT days before the stallion was injured. WTF was he supposed to do, look into his crystal ball and foresee that the horse would get injured in the future?

    Because as far as I know, RS was not seized due to BCS, but due to injuries. Don't just take my word for it, how about what MCHS states in their press release?

    A badly wounded stallion known as “Romantic Star” was seized as a result of untreated serious injuries
    Mind you, they pointed out that the three other horses were seized due to malnourishment so I don't think they missed the boat on RS' body condition if that was an issue

    Another malnourished mare known as “Pookie” was also impounded and transported to MHS for evaluation, treatment and rehabilitative care.
    ...Officers seized an additional two mares known as “Nutsie” and “Blackie” from the property. Both were found to be nearly emaciated...
    They don't charge by the word, it wouldn't cost extra to say the stallion was malnourished AND wounded. It might would only help their case. He seems to have fallen into the category of "has not received medically necessary treatment in an appropriate time frame" seizure.

    So with a little bit of (easily accessible) information, exactly what kind of coals do you think the vet should be raked over? The "I can't see into the future" coals or maybe the "This stallion, who is not in great weight, is damned lucky to get out of this hellhole and how fast can I help him" coals?

    Consider your answer carefully. This might be a test.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.


    12 members found this post helpful.

  7. #3967
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    Jan. 2, 2013
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    146

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    what about the Sable filly,,,presumably born in Sept? "poor conformation due to genetics, poor doer appearance"


    2 members found this post helpful.

  8. #3968
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    Feb. 14, 2008
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    326

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    There are three young horses on the vet report which are not listed on her website or listed under different names. Paris is likely the 2012 filly out of Likide by Redwine listed on her website as due 8/7/12. The other two mystery foals on the vet report are the filly Sable and the colt Revelation. The filly Sable could be Devil's Sis' 2012 foal listed as Radiant (http://www.grayfoxfarms.com/radiant.htm), and the colt Revelation could be Rabbit Hill (http://www.grayfoxfarms.com/rabbit_hill.htm), as they are the only two 2012 foals not listed as sold on Jill's website.

    There are two 2011 foals which are listed as "For Sale" on her website, but are not included in the vet report. They are Remember When, and Rendition #1.

    Since we can't trust Jill to be accurate in reporting which horses are actually sold, it'd be helpful if anyone in the know can confirm the location of any of the 2011 and 2012 foals.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  9. #3969
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    Jan. 2, 2013
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    146

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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterRider992 View Post
    There are three young horses on the vet report which are not listed on her website or listed under different names. Paris is likely the 2012 filly out of Likide by Redwine listed on her website as due 8/7/12. The other two mystery foals on the vet report are the filly Sable and the colt Revelation. The filly Sable could be Devil's Sis' 2012 foal listed as Radiant (http://www.grayfoxfarms.com/radiant.htm), and the colt Revelation could be Rabbit Hill (http://www.grayfoxfarms.com/rabbit_hill.htm), as they are the only two 2012 foals not listed as sold on Jill's website.

    There are two 2011 foals which are listed as "For Sale" on her website, but are not included in the vet report. They are Remember When, and Rendition #1.

    Since we can't trust Jill to be accurate in reporting which horses are actually sold, it'd be helpful if anyone in the know can confirm the location of any of the 2011 and 2012 foals.
    Remember When was one that went to MO. Devil's Sis' baby was born in July, the report said Sable was 4 1/2 mths old.



  10. #3970
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    Jan. 2, 2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by LostAcres View Post
    THIS whole escapade is an example of why I put on my search hat of the first Hanno double G line baby bred many years ago and selling at age 5. Went out of the horse business after I sold her. Have been reading so many horror stories over the years, so I started searching for that filly, and found her. Contacted current owners, and told them I want her back when they are ready to retire her or she was not useful anymore to them. She has been back with me now for a yr and a half, 25 yrs old now. Happy and healthy. I can sleep. I feel so bad for everyone that got involved with this sick individual
    I'm with you would like to require background check, references (which I know some people do already microchipping for tracking, because it's not always who you sell to but who THEY sell to Not cool that Diamonette did not get back to her owner despite the document with the BOS. That is on the woman who sold her to Jill. I'm sure she didn't get much $$ so hopefully she is ashamed that she did not honor the owner's request.



  11. #3971
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    Aug. 27, 2008
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    391

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    If someone is in fact hiding Aloha and Redwine for JB that is so disturbing. It takes a fairly knowledgeable person to house and care for stallions. Those poor animals. I hope they all get out soon.


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #3972
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    Jan. 2, 2013
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    146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack16 View Post
    If someone is in fact hiding Aloha and Redwine for JB that is so disturbing. It takes a fairly knowledgeable person to house and care for stallions. Those poor animals. I hope they all get out soon.
    I would hope that it is within MHS rights to know where the stallions are. BUT I am happy they are elsewhere presumably receiving better care.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  13. #3973
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    Apr. 9, 2009
    Posts
    13

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    Whoever Blaze is, he must have been in very poor condition if they issued a notice of intent to seize him after seeing him on that first visit. Names changing aside, none of the yearlings in the vet report sound to be in (relatively) bad enough condition to issue a notice of intent to seize. Hope nothing bad happened to this yearling between 12/26 and the next visit when the 2 other mares were taken...I may not want to know


    1 members found this post helpful.

  14. #3974
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    May. 17, 2001
    Location
    New Hampshire/Florida
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  15. #3975
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    Aug. 22, 2001
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    Almost Aiken
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    Seriously??

    Because that vet came out EIGHT days before the stallion was injured. WTF was he supposed to do, look into his crystal ball and foresee that the horse would get injured in the future?

    Because as far as I know, RS was not seized due to BCS, but due to injuries. Don't just take my word for it, how about what MCHS states in their press release?



    Mind you, they pointed out that the three other horses were seized due to malnourishment so I don't think they missed the boat on RS' body condition if that was an issue





    They don't charge by the word, it wouldn't cost extra to say the stallion was malnourished AND wounded. It might would only help their case. He seems to have fallen into the category of "has not received medically necessary treatment in an appropriate time frame" seizure.

    So with a little bit of (easily accessible) information, exactly what kind of coals do you think the vet should be raked over? The "I can't see into the future" coals or maybe the "This stallion, who is not in great weight, is damned lucky to get out of this hellhole and how fast can I help him" coals?

    Consider your answer carefully. This might be a test.

    QFT*




    *(Quoted For Truth)


    2 members found this post helpful.

  16. #3976
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
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    9,484

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    FWIW, someone just pointed out to me that Dr. Ellis just received her DVM in 2010. I am thinking it may be far easier for someone like JillB to blow smoke up the a** of a fairly recent grad then a vet with many years experience.

    And in reading through her report, I am struck by how many horses she noted as in serious need of dental work. Really makes me wonder if JillB used the poor dental condition of those horses as an excuse for their poor body condition.


    2 members found this post helpful.

  17. #3977
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    Jan. 2, 2013
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    146

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joanne View Post
    Would love for RMHP to get ahold the declarations from Jill's "vet and farrier" guess it did answer the question about why there were not many horse pics in the ones on RMHP county was after land issues.



  18. #3978
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    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    19,857

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    I realize that everyone is entitled to representation which means someone has to defend what seems indefensible to most of us ala Jerry Sandusky and such. My question is, in order to defend that person does the lawyer have to BELIEVE what their client has told them to be the truth or can they just repeat what they have been told? If that lawyer believes that crap she is as crazy as Jill Burnell.


    5 members found this post helpful.

  19. #3979
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    Jun. 27, 2010
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    SE VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    A body score is not a 3 when its followed up with "thin /verging on very thin"

    I thought the same thing!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  20. #3980
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2007
    Location
    Northern California
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    577

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    Seriously??

    Because that vet came out EIGHT days before the stallion was injured. WTF was he supposed to do, look into his crystal ball and foresee that the horse would get injured in the future?

    Because as far as I know, RS was not seized due to BCS, but due to injuries. Don't just take my word for it, how about what MCHS states in their press release?



    Mind you, they pointed out that the three other horses were seized due to malnourishment so I don't think they missed the boat on RS' body condition if that was an issue





    They don't charge by the word, it wouldn't cost extra to say the stallion was malnourished AND wounded. It might would only help their case. He seems to have fallen into the category of "has not received medically necessary treatment in an appropriate time frame" seizure.

    So with a little bit of (easily accessible) information, exactly what kind of coals do you think the vet should be raked over? The "I can't see into the future" coals or maybe the "This stallion, who is not in great weight, is damned lucky to get out of this hellhole and how fast can I help him" coals?

    Consider your answer carefully. This might be a test.
    Yes, seriously. When the facts come out about him and his actual condition on the day he was seized it will tell the true tale. And again, let me repeat, YES the vet who signed a health certificate for this horse should be raked over the coals.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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