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  1. #3581
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2006
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    1,922

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    At first I was really... shocked by the purchase of Romantic Star. Why would such a well regarded breeder get involved in this? I have a friend whose opinion I really trust who does business with Rhonda on a regular basis, so I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Strange to say on a JB thread but I do trust her judgement re: her ethics.

    What if Rhonda has just always been a fan of Romantic Star, watched him for years but knew JB would be asking an astronomical price (Didn't someone say she wanted a couple hundred thousand for RW?). After hearing how things were declining, she finally decided she had to at least ask and was surprised to get a number she could work with. Probably had a vet out to see him, probably test his motility to make sure he was fertile still, got a health certificate (I got one same day on a horse that was in pretty poor shape to ship from FL to NJ... I had rescued him maybe a month before and this vet knew me and this horse since day 1), and was ready to go when JB calls her and says he was injured. And then everything we already know happened.

    It is possible nothing shady has happened, bad timing. On the one hand I don't like the idea of JB getting any money, on the other it is like buying a horse off a broker lot or a dog or horse from a backyard breeder. Yeah we don't want to reward that person however on an individual basis... the horse deserves/needs an upgrade. I am glad he got one.


    17 members found this post helpful.

  2. #3582
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2006
    Posts
    1,922

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    At first I was really... shocked by the purchase of Romantic Star. Why would such a well regarded breeder get involved in this? I have a friend whose opinion I really trust who does business with Rhonda on a regular basis, so I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt. Strange to say on a JB thread but I do trust her judgement re: her ethics.

    What if Rhonda has just always been a fan of Romantic Star, watched him for years but knew JB would be asking an astronomical price (Didn't someone say she wanted a couple hundred thousand for RW?). After hearing how things were declining, she finally decided she had to at least ask and was surprised to get a number she could work with. Probably had a vet out to see him, probably test his motility to make sure he was fertile still, got a health certificate (I got one same day on a horse that was in pretty poor shape to ship from FL to NJ... I had rescued him maybe a month before and this vet knew me and this horse since day 1), and was ready to go when JB calls her and says he was injured. And then everything we already know happened.

    It is possible nothing shady has happened, bad timing. On the one hand I don't like the idea of JB getting any money, on the other it is like buying a horse off a broker lot or a dog or horse from a backyard breeder. Yeah we don't want to reward that person however on an individual basis... the horse deserves/needs an upgrade. I am glad he got one.



  3. #3583
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
    Posts
    10,373

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    Wow - I was at the barn all day yesterday (GORGEOUS day in GA!), and missed all the latest on this forum.

    I am rather shocked to see how the thread has gone from vilifying JillB/GFF to vilifying Ronda S/ Rising Star Farm. How some posters can lump the two into the same category is beyond me.

    FWIW - Ronda S isn't the only stallion owner hoping to end up with one or more of those stallions... From what I have heard, there are/were several SO's involved in trying to pry the stallions away from JillB/GFF (and some of them are quite well known). Some of these SOs have been working on it for some time, hoping JillB would come to her senses about how dire her situation was, and that she would finally accept reasonable offers for the stallions. And if Romantic Star had been "promised" by JillB (or even MHS) to another SO, then I can see how that SO would be plenty mad about Ronda being successful in acquiring him. OTOH, he hasn't shipped yet, so there may be more to unfold in the coming days.

    At the end of the day, I don't care who obtains him - or any of the other horses - as long as they are people who will do right by the animals, and whose business ethics are on the up and up.


    14 members found this post helpful.

  4. #3584
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2007
    Location
    Stuck in a stall
    Posts
    81

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    You're ever the class act, eh Cartier?

    What I've learned from this thread is:

    - If you think horses are in a bad situation, never try to buy them from the neglectful or hoarding owner.
    - Neglect and hoarding cases should just stay put until animal control can seize them all.
    - If you buy from a bad breeder/hoarder, you're contributing to the problem.
    - There is a space on interstate shipping certificates to note body condition score. Horses can't be shipped unless they're above some secret level.
    - Nobody buys or breeds to a horse without seeing it in the flesh first.
    - If a horse is underweight and in a neglectful situation, in addition to never buying it, you should also never buy it until the neglectful owner fattens it up.

    Conclusions: Government (ie, animal control) is always the answer. Never buy a horse from craigslist, New Holland, Camelot, etc. because you're just aiding and abetting the bad seller.

    I'll just sit on my hooves and wait for the Marin County Humane Society equine fire sale in a couple of months, like a lot of the other breeders posting here.


    21 members found this post helpful.

  5. #3585

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    DY and DL- agreed!


    4 members found this post helpful.

  6. #3586
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    13,115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnwood View Post
    Not at all ethical but I have seen vets do Health Certs without ever taking off a horses blanket , taking a temp or doing an exam.

    There are a myriad of ways a horse in poor condition could have still acquired a heath cert to travel. We also do not know the story that was spun to the official who examined the horse. Skinny unwell horses are shipped across the country all the time.
    Health certificate exams are primarily concerned with communicable diseases.
    Skinny isn't contagious.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.


    8 members found this post helpful.

  7. #3587
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2010
    Posts
    1,693

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    DY and DL, I also strongly agree with you.


    6 members found this post helpful.

  8. #3588
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2004
    Posts
    7,540

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    Quote Originally Posted by Callmeacab View Post
    What bothers me is why didn't Sonoma County do anything. I know they're laxer on zoning and codes, but come on, 30 horses on 2 acres? I KNOW that's against agricultural code, even for Sonoma. Surely the poor neighbors complained to deaf ears at the city and county, which is unacceptable. I'm disgusted with Sonoma County and I think they have some explaining to do.
    I have no idea about the particulars of JBs Hannan Ranch Lane Farm - I lived around the corner a while back and i do know that some of the folks on her lane did get a petition up and i am not sure where that went. Also JB was leasing pasture from her neighbor (who has 15 acres?) and finally, be careful in what you are saying because there are MANY small acreage places here with a larger number of horses on them. In fact I know of many boarding facilities that have upwards of 10 horses per acre....

    I believe the zoning allows for 2 horses per acre and that you can get permits for more - the concern being manure of course.

    Also, please remember that no one was raising concerns about the horses condition until now - when she lost her house and moved to this parcel of unimproved land.

    I still think this entire thing needs to stay focused on the alleged illegal activities and not try to make it into a horse abuse case - why? because if JB did indeed do all those things to folks - that would be a far better way to make charges stick than trying to get her for abuse or neglect.

    but people smell blood and don't seem to really care about how this all might play out in the courts....


    2 members found this post helpful.

  9. #3589
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2003
    Posts
    6,852

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    Here's my observation as a breeder and stallion owner.
    1. NEVER sell or send one of you broodmares to any other breeder unless you have confirmed that their facility is up your standards and that this person can maintain the mare. Put it in the contract that if the mare is no longer needed and/or not being cared for that the contract is null and void and you can take the mare back. If the farm is not nearby - find another breeder in the area to check on the mare especially if it is a lease or loan situation. I know it's a big country but going through the warmblood registries it's possible to find breeders in every state. Reputable ones will help you out.

    Regarding purchasing a stallion. I would want to see the current condition of the stallion and would spend the money to fly to lay eyes on it. I would want ALL veterinary records on the stallion - including inoculations and would have the stallion tested for EVA and CEM. I would pay to have the stallion collected to know the quality of the semen. This is not just a PURCHASE - it's an INVESTMENT.

    If the farm owner balks at visits - WALK AWAY FROM THE DEAL.

    Also if you are buying a foal or young horse - REQUIRE all records not only of inoculations, worming and trimming for this animal but ALSO for it's dam. A significant issue is the nutrition of the dam during pregnancy which does affect the development of the foal.

    AGAIN - this is an INVESTMENT.

    And if you have mares that are retired or can't be bred anymore - DO THE RIGHT THING AND PUT THEM DOWN if you can't afford to keep them.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"


    7 members found this post helpful.

  10. #3590
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2013
    Posts
    146

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    Quote Originally Posted by nycjumper View Post
    Wow - so it's totally offensive to buy a nice stallion that is a good fit with your breeding program? And even worse for the stallion to be put into a good and ethical breeding program where mare owners will have access to him and trust they are getting what they paid for? Yes, I can certainly understand the shock and horror displayed by certain posters here. (insert giant eye roll).

    Well, if nothing else, this thread has served to further my "wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole" list of stallions and their owners. The list might start with Jill but it sure isn't finishing there.

    I have to say, this thread has prompted me to report posts to moderators for the first time ever.
    Especially agree with the list . As a customer I wouldn't got near the lynching SO's.

    Piece of work Cartier.


    10 members found this post helpful.

  11. #3591
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2003
    Posts
    6,852

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    I have no idea about the particulars of JBs Hannan Ranch Lane Farm - I lived around the corner a while back and i do know that some of the folks on her lane did get a petition up and i am not sure where that went. Also JB was leasing pasture from her neighbor (who has 15 acres?) and finally, be careful in what you are saying because there are MANY small acreage places here with a larger number of horses on them. In fact I know of many boarding facilities that have upwards of 10 horses per acre....

    I believe the zoning allows for 2 horses per acre and that you can get permits for more - the concern being manure of course.

    Also, please remember that no one was raising concerns about the horses condition until now - when she lost her house and moved to this parcel of unimproved land.

    I still think this entire thing needs to stay focused on the alleged illegal activities and not try to make it into a horse abuse case - why? because if JB did indeed do all those things to folks - that would be a far better way to make charges stick than trying to get her for abuse or neglect.

    but people smell blood and don't seem to really care about how this all might play out in the courts....

    TO ANY AND ALL OF YOU WHO LIVE IN CALIFORNIA. I and others send the links to the photos of Jill's farm to the State Veterinarian and to the FDA Veterinarian who covers the region. We have repeatedly nudged them and have seen no action - even knowing the EVA situation. Rally horse people to call, email or fax your State Veterinarian and demend action.
    Summit Sporthorses Ltd. Inc.
    "Breeding Competition Partners & Lifelong Friends"


    3 members found this post helpful.

  12. #3592
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2004
    Posts
    7,540

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    due to some of the preceding posts, i am *finally* understanding some of the stuff going on here......

    i couldn't figure out WHY anyone would be against a horse going from a bad situation to a good one and how anyone could have any say about an seller/buyer agreement where they are neither party.

    but if it is true that a certain stallion was "promised" to someone who isnt the current buyer - that just starts to make a lot more sense....

    and if true, then the person doing the vilifying is no better than JB .....


    4 members found this post helpful.

  13. #3593
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 2000
    Location
    Goochland, VA
    Posts
    8,577

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    Quote Originally Posted by mbm View Post
    due to some of the preceding posts, i am *finally* understanding some of the stuff going on here......

    i couldn't figure out WHY anyone would be against a horse going from a bad situation to a good one and how anyone could have any say about an seller/buyer agreement where they are neither party.

    but if it is true that a certain stallion was "promised" to someone who isnt the current buyer - that just starts to make a lot more sense....

    and if true, then the person doing the vilifying is no better than JB .....
    Mbm, that is all speculation, as is so much of what is on the later pages of this thread. RS was not promised to anyone. Please read very carefully. There are only a couple of people who know the real story on the stallion's condition, injury and sale. And they are not posting here.
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com


    5 members found this post helpful.

  14. #3594
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    21,081

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    This thread has so jumped the shark. Perhaps we should start the musical version ala Two and a half men?


    5 members found this post helpful.

  15. #3595
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2004
    Posts
    7,540

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    thanks for the dose of reality will head your post.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  16. #3596
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2013
    Posts
    146

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    @nycjumper, I found it was also good to have another list of people on here I would LOVE to do business with. SO's and trainer

    back to the purpose

    http://www.leg-up.org/


    1 members found this post helpful.

  17. #3597
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,700

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    Quote Originally Posted by lauriep View Post
    There are only a couple of people who know the real story on the stallion's condition, injury and sale. And they are not posting here.
    And that's just it! So many people do not know the real story, and unfortunately, those that do know are not allowed to comment at this time. While there have been a few hints thrown out there, the real story is likely not going to come out for a few months....or longer, depending on how long it takes to settle all of this and the investigation is finished.

    In the meantime while theories and speculations are flying :

    Marin Humane Society Fundraiser:
    http://www.leg-up.org/marin-county-f...tion-page.html

    Marin Humane Society Donations:
    https://www.kintera.org/site/c.aiIOI...0J9MULlIXKjOaF
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Oldenburg & RPSI approved pony stallions Daventry's Power Play & Goldhills Brandysnap
    Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals www.EquineAppraisers.com


    8 members found this post helpful.

  18. #3598
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
    Posts
    3,807

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    Having been on this board for a long time (time is flying) I have learned over the years whom to "listen" to and whom to believe and who better not to be read or even on ignore.
    Ronda has been on here a long time and also in serious business a long time and I really do not get the fuss here !

    I am very sure that those of you who are now thinking it is their right to take position have done NOTHING to improve the situation of the horses in Jills posession before.
    No matter that people like it or not: Ronda did something to get one horse out of there !
    No one of you knows more details and I find it really nasty to speculate. Maybe Ronda has a contract in which it is stated that the satllion is not paid with money but with horse feed ? Who of you knows ? So before jumping onto someone who did something I would keep my big mouth shut and very shut !
    Especially this bu*"&$%"ยง (Sorry for wording) about other breeders' businesses that have retired sporthorse mares in comparison to JB's business what does that have to do with anything and how do such comments help on with the other horses (or dogs) in jill's care ?
    Instead of writing here about things people simply have no idea off because they are not involved, one should get out word on leg up and donate oneself !
    Get real and do something !
    (Vent off).
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    2015: Likoto- Florencio - Prince Thatch; Lissaro - Don Frederico - Prince Thatch; Edward - Sandro Hit - Rouletto


    13 members found this post helpful.

  19. #3599
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 2000
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    Goochland, VA
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    8,577

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    This thread is approx. 2% fact and the rest speculation, nastiness and BS. Oh and the links to auction are good too.
    Laurie
    Finding, preparing, showing and training young hunters, in hand and performance.
    www.juniorjohnsontrainingandsales.com


    13 members found this post helpful.

  20. #3600
    Join Date
    Dec. 12, 2007
    Location
    Stuck in a stall
    Posts
    81

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    Quote Originally Posted by ise@ssl View Post
    TO ANY AND ALL OF YOU WHO LIVE IN CALIFORNIA. I and others send the links to the photos of Jill's farm to the State Veterinarian and to the FDA Veterinarian who covers the region. We have repeatedly nudged them and have seen no action - even knowing the EVA situation. Rally horse people to call, email or fax your State Veterinarian and demend action.
    Yes, because it's so helpful to alert the officials that a bunch of crazy people are gossiping on the internet.

    I'm not surprised that the Food and Drug Administration has not been responsive to your calls. And if you are calling the USDA, not the FDA, I'm also not surprised that they're not responding to you since they have no jurisdiction over alleged neglect or zoning violations.

    Calling the CA Dept of Food and Agriculture to let them know that you think there might be horses carrying EVA, which is endemic in the US, is also not going to raise the OMG level. According to the State's list of reportable diseases, diagnostic labs report monthly on EVA. It's no secret that the disease is present. Do you realize the vaccine for that is highly effective?

    You're also concerned that RS must be tested for CEM!!!11!1! which is interesting given the prevalence of the disease, how it's diagnosed, and the fact that it's treatable.


    6 members found this post helpful.

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