[Appsolute]

Where is the husband in all of this insanity?

From the appearance of the house, and the official records paper trail, he is enabling.

Whether she has an actual mental illness is for professionals to decide, not a bunch of internet posters. Even if she does, it's very, very hard to get help for an adult that won't accept it. I don't envy her brother and SIL for the position they're in. Thank god they got her parents out of there.

THIS. I have a mother in law who is a hoarder and has boarder line personality disorder. One can not force treatment on the mentally ill. And the nature of the illness means the sufferer is often resistant to treatment. Its a really heart breaking situation for many families.

but unlike suffering from a physical illness mental illness often has many victims, the ill and the victims of the ill. Jill has many victims.

we had to stop enabling my m-i-l, take away any dependants (children / pets) and let her find her own rock bottom (much like an addict). Then she finally accepted help (not that its a cure all).

This behavior should not be enabled, and she should not be allowed to create more victims.

[cyriz's mom]

About Time -

I have an Apiro named Adagio, too!!!! He's Cyriz's half brother and will be at the IHF Regionals next week doing the 3 y.o. performance. And yes, he too can jump the moon!

[Mardi]

Just curious how many people posting on here have competed against GFF foals and lost or won?

It always goes back to that, doesn't it.

[Tehzebra]

It always goes back to that, doesn't it.

Was just about to say the same thing.

So sad that JBalts always default to "yer jus jealous" accusations.

[Mardi]

I hope to God that with all of this attention now, she will (at least) finally provide shelter for the horses and their babies.

If she hasn't done it when times were good, she sure as h--- won't do it when times are tough.

[ldaziens]

Sad. This is obviously someone who has a severe mental illness. Even sadder to see family destroy her as thoroughly as they can when what this woman needs is help. Hope this serves as a wakeup call and she receives the therapy she needs and her animals find a safe place to fall.

I don't think publicly destroying someone this mentally ill is the right thing to do. This type of behavior is beyond laziness, or selfishness which are regular character flaws. This woman is truly mentally ill.

I truly hope she gets help before any more animals have to suffer, and that the fangs are retracted here and the witch hunt called off. Where is everyone's human compassion? How can you not feel compassion and sadness for this truly sick woman?

She was capable of long term well orchestrated complex planning of lying and manipulation. She absolutely knows right from wrong. The hoarding will be easier to deal in a small cell in prison where she doesn't have so much stuff and she doesn't have animals and her parents to abuse.

Please read through all of the previous posts in the previous threads on this site and others -- there are even explanations from medical and legal professionals. Addicts are also very sick; but "enabling" is a BAD thing which does nothing at all to help the addict. Enabling doesn't cure con artists and criminals either. I think it is beyond contempt for anyone to even think about placing blame on her parents or her brother and sister in law. All the poor sister in law wants is trying to do is help the horses - and warn off future victims. I'm sorry, but blaming the family and the victims is complete BS. Again, I am sure you just looked at the pictures and haven't read all of the previous threads and posts.

[Mardi]

Where is Redwine kept ? Is he on the property ?

[AlexS]

Appsolute, link isn't working. Just curious how many people posting on here have competed against GFF foals and lost or won?

Not me, I don't breed, and am never likely to show in Hunters - but you know what - those that this doesn't apply to can READ. I bet I am one of thousands rather than hundreds. I think your career is over Jill.

It's amazing that I posted actual pictures of the facility and I'm accused of either being Jill or being paid by Jill! Sorry to disappoint but far from the truth!

"That being said, I now know a total of 4 people affected by Jill Burnell and Gray Fox Farm. Ironically, all of them have never come forward, never voiced their complaints and likely never will"

How conveinient is that? 4 whole people? C'mon Daventry, all you bashers are doing is trying to de-value GFF horses with your claims. Think of the people who have purchased horses and haven't complained at all.

Not sure anyone quoted this in it's entirety, so I will.

[Noms]

So easy to get lost in this wild thread...but Cartier and VB....whose phenotype ? I actually watched one of the said stallions and while my mere mortal hunter embedded soul cannot be trusted? Not sure re "phenotype"? Continues to amaze me how so many breed to stallions not seen in person when we have a) no true "hunter" data re breeding and no DAM data at all and b) no proven "phenotype" for hunters other than the fabulous TBs of yesteryear!

I myself ...think any Rotspon offspring a bit meh for hunters...performing hunters that is....but jmho

The were referring to Apiro's phenotype, not Redwines.

[candico]

Has anyone made some sort of master list simply of unhappy customers with just a concise explanation of what went wrong. Otherwise, it just seems like a never ending tennis match where she and those defending her just keep lobbing the ball back...

I've known hoarders with understanding yet not necessarily enabling family members, and years of professional psychological help who just kept up this delusional state where the rest of us are the crazy ones... The biggest changes finally seem to come when they absolutely hit rock bottom. Anyway, a simple master list of unhappy customers might hit home at least to those who defend her behavior.

[IrishWillow]

Question - I assume none of us to which she owes money have any recourse, do we? I have an outstanding Redwine breeding - mare never took. Any data or thoughts on Redwines AI conception rate? There seem to be very few mares outside of those on Jill's farm that actually took. I know I won't get the $2000+ in veterinary costs from trying to breed back, but what about the stud fee? Jill originally told me I could put the funds towards a foal or a mare in foal, but I wasn't able to get a response from her after she originally made the offer. I repeatedly tried to contact her in regards to what mares and/or foals were available in which to put the stud fee towards. Never got a response.

[rapazzini09]

Has anyone made some sort of master list simply of unhappy customers with just a concise explanation of what went wrong. Otherwise, it just seems like a never ending tennis match where she and those defending her just keep lobbing the ball back...

I've known hoarders with understanding yet not necessarily enabling family members, and years of professional psychological help who just kept up this delusional state where the rest of us are the crazy ones... The biggest changes finally seem to come when they absolutely hit rock bottom. Anyway, a simple master list of unhappy customers might hit home at least to those who defend her behavior.

anyone is welcome to put my name on the list. i'll help whomever in whatever matter i possibly can. having been victimized by her, i understand the struggle, fear, and heartbreak behind it all. feel free to pm me.

[Equilibrium]

I agree mental illness is an issue but I really don't Think it's a problem nobody talks about. Having been through some issues myself they were only too quick to throw me on anti depressants and not to look for the actual problem. The actual problem was a severely sprained neck and nerve issues responsible for the symptoms causing my serious panic attacks. For 3 months I listened to how everyone of my physical issues were in fact mental until I got brave enough to see a neurologist. I lied about the fact I was taking my paxil because the one time I told the psych I had a horrible reaction to the stuff he wheeled around and said quite direct, you will take the paxil. It sent chills down my spine and since I had dealings with daily visits to a friend in a mental hospital for months, I was spooked. I found people were very quick to diagnose mental issues without looking anywhere else. And while my bosses were sympathetic, life can't stop for you the same as if I was injured physically. I'm afraid that is life. I was able to hold it together and do well and it made me a much better and different person.

Jill may very well have issues, well obviously she does. I guess in her mind she doesn't have a problem. But she needs help the same as if she had a broken leg. At the moment she is getting a free pass. Lots of people in the world with mental issues functioning in a normal capacity. Most of them wouldn't be too happy about people using it as an excuse for ripping people off and abusing her older parents. I have a friend with schizophrenia and she functions normally in life and quite well.

I don't feel sorry for people who rip people off and get to continue in shoddy practices.

Terri

[ldaziens]

Has anyone made some sort of master list simply of unhappy customers with just a concise explanation of what went wrong. Otherwise, it just seems like a never ending tennis match where she and those defending her just keep lobbing the ball back...

I've known hoarders with understanding yet not necessarily enabling family members, and years of professional psychological help who just kept up this delusional state where the rest of us are the crazy ones... The biggest changes finally seem to come when they absolutely hit rock bottom. Anyway, a simple master list of unhappy customers might hit home at least to those who defend her behavior.

check out
http://www.facebook.com/groups/ATOLAfterburn/
not for the abuse aspect, but how they organized and pursued fraud charges

It was set up as a private group requiring approval to join, and any trollers were immediately booted.

Lisa Rudy can explain more, but there was a paralegal for the State of New York who helped gather the documentation from donors and then the social media push pressured law enforcement to investigate the fraud. The fraud amount in the ATOL case pales in comparison to the losses discussed here.

If anyone knows someone w/ CA legal expertise, a Federal Prosecutor, &/or FBI -- a lesson about wire fraud might be a good place to start.

The horses are the assets; you've got victims / debtors; and the horses need to be sold responsibly in a way that best benefits the victims.

But, data collection should be done by trustworthy people off of this board. Now that the consensus is that the Emperor is, in fact, buck naked; the truth will flow.

And, of course, Jill's defenders ought to have the right to pay off all of her debts, settle with the victims, and provide appropriate accomodations to those horses that Jill legally owns.

[kdow]

I agree mental illness is an issue but I really don't Think it's a problem nobody talks about. Having been through some issues myself they were only too quick to throw me on anti depressants and not to look for the actual problem.

This is possibly getting to off topic, but I think that the 'throw pills at it and run away' mentality is part of the 'don't talk about it' culture that we have - because if you can fix it with medication then you can go back to pretending the problem doesn't really exist, people aren't debilitated by it, etc.

Meanwhile there's plenty of research to suggest that while medications are part of many good treatment plans, they are only a part of the treatment plan. Depending on the actual issue, there's a wide variety of other things that need to take place to actually functionally improve the life of the individual with the illness, which may range in scope from some relatively 'easy' talk therapy all the way to having some kind of reliable educated support network of professionals in place to monitor and provide assistance with daily life tasks as needed, make sure medications are taken, etc.

Of course, for any of those things to be effective, the individual with the problem has to be willing to take the medications and work on learning life skills or whatever else is necessary to manage the problem. My understanding with hoarding is that it's REALLY HARD to get people with that problem to the point where they will actively participate in getting help.

[kalidascope]

Sorry my bad. Just trying to figure out who this eagle person is (other than the obvious).

It's easy to forget to turn the email option off when you make a new username. Checking a poster's profile and clicking 'Send a message via email to [username]' furnishes an email address surprisingly often.

eagle74's email address is mlowe74@hotmail.com. In 2008 this email address was associated with a Mike Lowe.

Anyone know him?

[trubandloki]

This is possibly getting to off topic, but I think that the 'throw pills at it and run away' mentality is part of the 'don't talk about it' culture that we have - because if you can fix it with medication then you can go back to pretending the problem doesn't really exist, people aren't debilitated by it, etc.

I think you are playing the victim card here and that is not really the case. Heck, there are commercials on TV telling people they have mental illness issues left and right.

Tossing a script at it is pretty common for anything. Not just mental illness.

Heck, my doctor wanted to give me a script to lower my blood pressure. No discussion about more exercise or changing my diet, just take a pill. You can not tell me that we as a society do not talk about blood pressure issues and tossing a drug at it is burying the issue.

I am totally agreeing with Equilibrium here.

[Laurierace]

Question - I assume none of us to which she owes money have any recourse, do we? I have an outstanding Redwine breeding - mare never took. Any data or thoughts on Redwines AI conception rate? There seem to be very few mares outside of those on Jill's farm that actually took. I know I won't get the $2000+ in veterinary costs from trying to breed back, but what about the stud fee? Jill originally told me I could put the funds towards a foal or a mare in foal, but I wasn't able to get a response from her after she originally made the offer. I repeatedly tried to contact her in regards to what mares and/or foals were available in which to put the stud fee towards. Never got a response.

My mare was AI'ed two days in a row and had an amazing filly as a result. Out of all the complaints I have personally heard about Gray Fox Farm, Redwine's fertility has not been one of them.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Out of all the complaints I have personally heard about Gray Fox Farm, Redwine's fertility has not been one of them.

It always amazes me that people spend thousands and thousands on stud fees, shipping, vet bills, thru repeated cycles, without checking to see of the semen they are getting is good, or even has any motillity.

A $50 microscope on ebay solves that issue, but no one buys one.

Like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Opt...item27ca30d29c

[Pronzini]

Appsolutely!!! hehehehe (sorry couldn't resist)

And since you are from Pescadero, here is my mare - frolicking in a HUGE pasture there - great for raising babies and having broodies on

Sure you can find green pasture in California but it is a seasonal thing. Where any of these pictures of lush green grass taken in August? If so, those farms must have a lot of well water and a honking big sprinkler system.