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  1. #241
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    Redwine is a nice stallion with nice babies. I wouldn't recommend breeding to him but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one already on the ground assuming it was registered properly with some registry. I wouldn't buy one directly from Jill Burnell but there are plenty of them out there with reputable breeders that you could buy from. The animals are the victims here too.



  2. #242
    Join Date
    Apr. 20, 2011
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    726

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    Redwine is a nice stallion with nice babies. I wouldn't recommend breeding to him but I wouldn't hesitate to buy one already on the ground assuming it was registered properly with some registry. I wouldn't buy one directly from Jill Burnell but there are plenty of them out there with reputable breeders that you could buy from. The animals are the victims here too.
    agree completely, with the exception that the ones that are owned by the reputable breeders are not the ones in need of better homes.......



  3. #243
    Join Date
    Aug. 20, 2012
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    62

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    It's amazing that I posted actual pictures of the facility and I'm accused of either being Jill or being paid by Jill! Sorry to disappoint but far from the truth!

    "That being said, I now know a total of 4 people affected by Jill Burnell and Gray Fox Farm. Ironically, all of them have never come forward, never voiced their complaints and likely never will"

    How conveinient is that? 4 whole people? C'mon Daventry, all you bashers are doing is trying to de-value GFF horses with your claims. Think of the people who have purchased horses and haven't complained at all.



  4. #244
    Join Date
    May. 24, 2006
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    2,887

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    Hoarding is a mental illness, it does not however excuse the abuse of the elderly or animals. This is a person who obviously needs serious help. She also seriously needs not to have anything in her care, control, or custody that relies on her for food, medication, shelpter etc. This is just a very very terrible situation for all involved.



  5. #245
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2003
    Location
    Aiken SC
    Posts
    556

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle74 View Post

    How conveinient is that? 4 whole people? C'mon Daventry, all you bashers are doing is trying to de-value GFF horses with your claims. Think of the people who have purchased horses and haven't complained at all.
    OBVIOUSLY there are WAY MORE than 4 people that have been ripped off by this woman. We have heard from either 1 or 2 that are defending her, that have not disclosed who they are, as opposed to the "accusers" who have come out publicly.... so if you have so many happy customers, why don't you name them or have them post here to share their stories of nothing but professional, positive business dealings?

    BTW, did the woman on the other thread ever get her mare that was paid for?



  6. #246
    Join Date
    Jan. 29, 2010
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    Satan's Steam Sauna
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    626

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vermilion View Post
    I agree with you. However...this whole topic hits a nerve.

    Psychiatric problems don't exist in America. Or that's what a vast number of Americans would have people believe...until someone goes on a shooting spree or lives with 50 cats and piles of sh!t...but then we blame gun control or animal control for not doing their part.

    ETA: There's also the stigma attached to asking for help that inhibits a lot of people as well. Asking for help is not a weakness or some kind of defect.

    I think it's funny we as a society can accept animals as mentally "damaged goods," but we can't even come close to accepting that some people need help. It's heartbreaking...

    You would know that their reality isn't even close to the real version of events because it isn't the way their brain is wired. They. Need. Help. It isn't a joke. Oh, and they can function quite well out in society. They can be very charming (and manipulative) when they need it.
    You have a lot of valid points about the lack of both availability and affordability of mental health care. I know that prior to the return of 2nd Gulf War & Afghanistan, I saw a statistic on the odds of an individual developing a mental illness (based on DSM-IV) over the course of one's lifetime, and they are HIGH; but I can't put my fingers on that figure. And, traumatic brain injury - including relatively "minor" closed skull injuries / concussions are a big deal - both with returning veterans and with all of those kiddos who are butting those soccer balls with their heads; and, of course, we know horseback riding is not a risk free sport.
    Here are some mental health stats -
    http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/publi...ca/index.shtml

    I think it is hugely important to emphasize that the overwhelming majority of mentally ill people are NOT mass murderers. However, proper early diagnosis and effective treatment could surely lower the suicide rate, and decrease the pain of the mentally ill and their families.

    Also, there are conditions that, at this point, do NOT have very effective treatments.

    Psychopaths can function quite well in society - uh, I would say can be quite successful; and somebody wrote a book on that subject -
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffberc...ke-great-ceos/
    Anyone on Twitter should check out @GSElevator for conversations overheard on the elevator at Goldmann Sachs.

    Anyway, regardless of the inadaqucies of our mental health care, I support the basic legal idea that if an individual understands right from wrong; then s/he is legally responsible for his/her actions and the consequences of those actions -- no matter how many DSM-IV criteria that individual meets.

    Lastly, I'll share this bit of depressing but very relevant research - http://uweekly.com/article/college-students-cheat-1318/
    A study administered by Duke University said 70 percent of college students admitted to some form of serious cheating, and 40 percent reported to have stolen work from the Internet.

    As a teacher, I found that stunningly depressing. But, my grandmother always told me - "I don't care WHAT everybody else is doing!" and "Integrity is what you do when nobody is looking" - which reminds me of that poor Devon Pony.
    Last edited by ldaziens; Aug. 20, 2012 at 06:00 PM. Reason: Grammar / Spelling



  7. #247
    Join Date
    Jun. 22, 2006
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    1,784

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    As a SF Bay Area person who has had horses here for 35 years, all over the Bay Area, I will chime in to say that WE DO HAVE PASTURES AND LAND

    Does it look like Middleburg, VA? No - we don't naturally have the green grass year round, but we certainly DO have enough room that breeders CAN have mares and foals out on LARGE PASTURES.

    Are there dry lots and stalls and pipe pens? Yes, absolutely. But is that a way to have broodies and babies and have foals grow up big and strong and develop their muscles, bones, hooves, ligaments, etc? NOPE.

    Anyways - I've kept horses all over the Bay Area.... ALL of which - I've had pasture.

    These areas are about 1.5 hours south of Petaluma. Not THAT different. It does get hot, it does get muddy. If you don't have a ton of space/pasture - you better darn well have mud control Is it nicer weather than alot of the country? YEP! We pay for our weather here...hehehehee

    See? This is typical around here. Yes - typical. The "pasture" is only green during our very very short winter/spring. Then it's golden. But it is still lovely to have room to roam for mares and foals.

    A Los Altos Hills pasture

    Another nice pasture I boarded in, in Aptos

    Last pasture where I boarded in Almaden Valley

    My current pasture (at home in South County)

    Neighbors' pasture in South County
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    Equine & Pet Portrait Artist
    www.elainehickman.com
    **Morgans Do It All**



  8. #248
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2007
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    San Jose, Ca
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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle74 View Post
    How conveinient is that? 4 whole people? C'mon Daventry, all you bashers are doing is trying to de-value GFF horses with your claims.
    I am not a breeder, I am a buyer. I don’t want to devalue well bred horses.

    I DO have issue with someone who has stiffed many people in the horse business. It is up to US, the horse community to out people that scam artist.

    The courts, despite their judgments, warrants, and foreclosure have not been able to stop her from scamming.

    The word needs to get out to all that may end up doing business with her. I certainly would not want a mare of mine to end up there!

    And it is NOT just 4 people. Many people here on COTH, people on other boards have come forward, the FB group for people that had been scammed by Jill had 60+ members. Not to mention every time I check her FB page there is someone pleading to get in contact with Jill because they are owned a horse, seamen or money! Jill is pretty good at deleting those… she tries hard to cover her tracks.



  9. #249
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
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    1,952

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    Quote Originally Posted by ldaziens View Post
    But regardless of the inadaqucies of our mental health care, I support the basic legal idea that if an individual understands right from wrong; then s/he is legally responsible for their actions and the consequences of those actions -- no matter how many DSM-IV criteria that individual meets.
    Oh, yes. Having a mental health problem is not an automatic 'get out of jail free' card, as it were. I'm quite happy with the fact that the actual 'insanity' plea does not actually mean that anyone with any mental health issue can go 'I'm not well!' and that's that - there are specific criteria that need to be met for it to be a valid defense, as I understand it. (I think the criteria vary by state - not an expert.)

    And even so - if you do get out of jail time on an insanity plea, you shouldn't be tossed out on the street, you should be put in a place where you can get proper care, because that's a major problem to have. So it's not like you get out of punishment, it's more that the legal system recognizes that the traditional prison/penal system isn't going to be useful because you need actual medical care.

    Which is really where the mental illness issue comes into play in situations like this, where I don't think the insanity plea would even apply - the question is not 'is there a problem' because obviously there is, but rather 'what is the most effective intervention?' and mental health issues can easily influence what will work and what won't in terms of actually penalizing the guilty party appropriately, protecting animals, etc.

    I'm certainly not going to say 'oh, well, she's a hoarder, she has mental health issues, she doesn't know any better' about keeping dependents or animals in horrible conditions - it doesn't actually matter what the reason is, dependents and animals shouldn't be kept in horrible conditions. Where the mental health aspect comes into it is more how you respond. If she doesn't 'see' an issue then chances are she's never really going to understand the problem, so you potentially can't rely on her to self-police. So possibly animal control or a social worker needs to check in occasionally, that sort of thing.



  10. #250
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2012
    Location
    In a far far away place....
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    704

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    I dont think anyone is devaluing any GFF babies, they are lovely. Just buy them from someone else. The issue is supporting Jill and her farm. Obviously the money she makes from all the people that purchase breedings or babies is not going to the proper places. So to stop that, stop dealing with her and buy from a reputible breeder who has a few youngsters from whatever stallion of hers you like. As soon as the money stops coming in, then the business will stop. I think the really sad part is she is allowed to step away from this mess she made and go start up a new one. Very sad that anyone will back her on this adventure.



  11. #251
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2012
    Location
    Petaluma, CA
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    21

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    My intent was to warn people about the person they are doing business with now or in the future. Not to embarrass her parents for being swindled by their own daughter.



  12. #252
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    Aug. 4, 2011
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    1,224

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeskatboxxx View Post
    My intent was to warn people about the person they are doing business with now or in the future. Not to embarrass her parents for being swindled by their own daughter.
    You and your husband should take some sort of action to prevent her from stealing all of your in-laws money.



  13. #253
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2007
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
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    4,563

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    Quote Originally Posted by yeskatboxxx View Post
    My intent was to warn people about the person they are doing business with now or in the future. Not to embarrass her parents for being swindled by their own daughter.
    Fair enough, (because that looks to be the case) I will take down what I have posted (per the official records which are online for all to see).

    Really wish that her parents would stop enabling this appalling behavior.



  14. #254
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2012
    Location
    Petaluma, CA
    Posts
    21

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    This is the parcel number and aerial view of the property. Just a giant pasture, so there is no actual address yet.

    http://www.apal.co/RV/3956/1831



  15. #255
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    Oct. 26, 2007
    Location
    San Jose, Ca
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeskatboxxx View Post
    This is the parcel number and aerial view of the property. Just a giant pasture, so there is no actual address yet.

    http://www.apal.co/RV/3956/1831
    Interesting. I wondered what bank would EVER loan to Jill to allow her to buy property in this day and age. Looks like the sellers did a buyer carry back mortgage. Boy are they going to be in for a ride.



  16. #256
    Join Date
    May. 13, 2005
    Posts
    420

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    Oh my, do I feel like an idiot!!!!! I've been drooling over Redwine for awhile. GFF website seems professional and has lovely offspring for sale-- I never have imagined it was a farce.

    Their babies are costly...so how the heck can she owe so many people and lose her home????

    I'm just sick about this......albeit feeling saved at the same time from doing business with GFF.

    very sad,

    noodles



  17. #257
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2012
    Location
    Petaluma, CA
    Posts
    21

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    I hope to God that with all of this attention now, she will (at least) finally provide shelter for the horses and their babies.



  18. #258
    Join Date
    Jan. 15, 2008
    Location
    Chapel Hill and Southern Pines, North Carolina
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    2,406

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    Wow....amazing! So someone with an unsettled warrant who let's house get foreclosed on can then go buy land? Wow....CA is a whacky state. No wonder such a fiscal mess!
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com



  19. #259
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    Quote Originally Posted by gabby.gator View Post
    agree completely, with the exception that the ones that are owned by the reputable breeders are not the ones in need of better homes.......
    I am not talking about a rescue situation. If you want one and don't want to contribute to the red hot mess by breeding to Redwine directly you still have a way to obtain one.



  20. #260
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 2009
    Posts
    233

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    I have been sitting on the sidelines, refraining from posting against Jill Burnell because I still have a paid breeding to Redwine, but I've made up my mind. I am going to cut my losses and try to forget about the $1400 I just gave away.

    I want to share my story, mostly to vent and come clean, but also to add another skill to Jill's resume. Preying on people's emotions.

    I have a lovely 3yr old by Apiro, who is everything I could have hoped for. Before he was even a yearling, I bought another breeding to Apiro because I love him so much. However, our first free jumping episode had me very concerned (update at end of post,) and I posted on this forum asking for advise, never mentioning the sire of my colt. A "friend of Jill's" whom I can assume was actually Jill in alter, PMed me, somehow knew I had a foal by Apiro, and proceeded to bash him, telling me that his foals don't jump well, but that Redwine's foals ALL jumped superbly. Not to mention some other nasty comments she made. I was told NOT to rebreed to him. Then coincidentally, Jill herself PMed me, and told me I didn't even have to pay her right away, she would ship the semen when ever I wanted it. How kind! So I took her up on her offer and sold the Apiro breeding.

    My mare never caught and I ended up selling her, so Jill told me I could use the stud fee towards a foal. If not for Jill I would have a 2 year old Apiro baby! More importantly, I have been overwhelmed with guilt for lying to Barbara, aka showjumper66. I told her I wasn't breeding my mare that year, which (probably karma biting me back,) I never did. Well I'm coming clean!

    I am truly sorry, and I hope Jill is shut down, she is not a nice person. I wonder how many others have been manipulated that we don't know about.

    Update! My Apiro colt jumps fantastic now, and he's been under saddle for 2 months, and is AWESOME. I would recommend Apiro and Barbara Sikkink of Silver Creek Farm to ANYBODY.
    What I lack in preparedness I make up for in enthusiasm



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